.204 Ruger Distance to Lands, Does it "like some jump"?

Brian Pfleuger · May 24, 2011, 03:49 PM

I plan to do my own testing, so none of the "every rifle is different..." stuff, m'kay?

I've seen several references from 204 loaders that the round "likes some jump" to the rifling, so I thought I'd see what the consensus might be, or how far out I might expect to go.

Particularly with reference to 39gr Sierras would be nice.

troy_mclure · May 24, 2011, 04:26 PM

i just got rid of a t/c encore in .204 ruger.

it really liked the 32gr vmax's. i was having probs with accuracy until i had the bullets barely seated, had the bullet into the throat as far as i could get it.

then it tightened up enormously.

homesick · May 24, 2011, 04:43 PM

I had a 700 VTR that would shoot one day and not the next, it did like the 32 gr bullet but seating depth didn't seem to matter. I also had a T/C encore once again it liked 32 gr bullets and Bench Mark powder but seating depth did not seem to matter. The T/C would shoot about 3/4" at best. I have neither of these rifles now, however my next one is going to have a heavy barrel on it maybe a 700 VLS, its just fun to shoot.

Brian Pfleuger · May 24, 2011, 05:27 PM

Well, way to blow my theory right to hell, guys.

wingman · May 24, 2011, 09:29 PM

My Thompson Center Icon prefers "the jump", it is a super accurate rifle, less then .500 most of the time if I do my part. It shot .375 out of the box with factory Hornady vmax 32gr, one of the few guns I've owned that it is taking a lot work to find reloads better then commerical.

troy_mclure · May 24, 2011, 11:04 PM

my encore would do 5 touching holes at 100yds.

A_Gamehog · May 25, 2011, 08:27 PM

I built an AR-15 with a 204 ruger chamber. 1-12
I have shot, 32 & 40 V-max
39 Sierra liked X-Terminator and N-140, R-10X, R-15 hor brass and 205 primers
All the R-10X loads shot well! POI changed very little thru the charge ranges.
they all load to 2.260 mag COL and shoot very accurate.
Specs call for shorter but I just load to 2.260..

Easy to get accurate loads.

Brian Pfleuger · May 25, 2011, 09:08 PM

A_Gamehog,

Did they Sierras shoot any better or worse than the V-Max?

I'm shooting the 32gr V-Max over 28.0gr Benchmark in honest .57 MOA computer measured groups at 100 yards and about .75 MOA at 410 yards.

highvel · May 25, 2011, 09:31 PM

Peetzakilla, you've got your computer trained to go check your targets! Cool

Brian Pfleuger · May 25, 2011, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highvel

Peetzakilla, you've got your computer trained to go check your targets! Cool

There's a program called Easy Target that does it for you.

You just need to take a picture of the target. It helps if you include a ruler (or something) for reference of known size. Then you just mark the holes and it gives you an exact measurement.

There's a bit of a learning curve to the program... well, it's a little confusing at first... but it's not too tough. Works great.

uncyboo · May 25, 2011, 09:57 PM

Quote:

I'm shooting the 32gr V-Max over 28.0gr Benchmark

Peet,

That's the exact load I'm using in both Rem 700 VLSS Thumbhole and a Savage 12 FV. Seating depth seems to have little effect. I don't have my notes with me but I think I settled on 2.365 OAL, which is the max length of the Remington's magazine. FWIW, I can't reach the lands in either of these rifles with the 32 gr. V-Max, even loading singly. The bullets just aren't long enough for that.

An interesting thing I have going on is I also tried the 26 gr. Barnes VGs. The Remington shot them exactly the same group sizes AND exact same POA at 100 yds. I swear you could mix them blindly in a magazine and shoot a good group at 100. Conversely, the Savage, which shoots to same load with the 32 V-Max into very similar tiny groups as the Remington, scattered the VGs all over the paper.

I have stuck with the 32 V-Max to keep my supply inventory that much simpler.

I have recently aquired a 16" Contender and an NEF Handi, both in 204. Have shot both just a little but they both seem to group the 32 V-Max / Benchmark load decently. Will do further testing later this summer.

Anyway, to answer your question, my limited experience with the former 2 rifles mentioned would indicate that yes, the 204 seems to like a little jump to the lands. This has been noted quite a bit in the 204Ruger Forum as well.

http://www.204ruger.com/forum/index.php

Brian Pfleuger · May 26, 2011, 08:56 AM

Quote:

I have recently aquired a 16" Contender and an NEF Handi, both in 204.

Wow! The muzzle blast with full-power loads in a 16" barrel has got to be ungodly.

This guy says it pulled objects off shelves from 30 feet away....

http://www.bullberry.com/204Rugerdata.html

troy_mclure · May 26, 2011, 11:51 AM

i had a muzzle brake installed on my 28" encore prohunter bbl, i always had to go the far side of the range as it would cause even the big magnum guys to jump. lol

Brian Pfleuger · May 26, 2011, 12:06 PM

Troy,

That 28" barrel shot 5 holes touching at 100 yards? I was looking at getting a 28 inch 22-250 barrel but I had read that they have accuracy problems... I'd love to hear they don't.

Muzzle brake on a 204... that's funny.

troy_mclure · May 26, 2011, 05:46 PM

yep, all 5 touching, only with .32gr bullets.

with the light encore the barrel would still jump and id miss the impact(clay pigeons at 300yd) with the brake the gun didnt even twitch, it moved even less than a .22lr.

langenc · May 26, 2011, 07:20 PM

Most guns ARE different. Chamber, leade, amount of erosion and others will add several more.

A_Gamehog · May 26, 2011, 07:47 PM

Sorry it too so long to get back Peetzakilla
The Sierra's are a deal, you do get what you pay for. The 39's have better groups and BC than any other in the 204 I tried. In the mornings with no winds I shoot the 32 V-Max, after lunch and when the wind blows I shoot the 39's. The 40's V-Max are great also, just the Sierra's are a little better in group size out past 200+ in the winds. The difference in accuracy @ 100 yards with all 3 loads is not much. For close range "wet work" red mist effect, the 32 V-max is really great.

32 V-max's and 25.4 R-10X
39 Sierra and 25.2 R-10X
40 V-Max and 22.5 X-Terminator

those are my loads....

POI on them is all very close...

uncyboo · May 26, 2011, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Wow! The muzzle blast with full-power loads in a 16" barrel has got to be ungodly.

I shot just a couple of 3 rd. groups off the hood of the truck so far. Had plugs in and muffs on. Yes, it was a little loud. It also had more "snap" recoil-wise in the pistol than I expected. Not severe recoil but more muzzle jump than I thought it would.

bow shot · June 29, 2011, 09:31 AM

Good to see your post, sorry I'm late to the party, LOL!!

I did a lot of tinkering with COAL in my Savage 12 VLP (.204) and really couldn't find one seating depth much better than another. I started at spec COAL, got my optimal charge, and then adjusted COAL around the charge. When I didn't get much reward by adjusting COAL, I stuck with the length that seemed to give me the best accuracy, and went back to tweaking powder.

When the the stars line up, I get .3" 5-shot @100, but That can easily go to 0.5". That's 32 VMAx's over 26.8 Benchmark, and my COAL 2.334"

I think we've batted this around before too, but it seems I've got to pump quite a few shots away before the groups tighten up, and they stay tight out to around 175 shots... that's how long I've gone experimenting with that thing (how many shots till accuracy comes/goes) anyway...

May 24, 2011, 03:49 PM	#1
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	.204 Ruger Distance to Lands, Does it "like some jump"? I plan to do my own testing, so none of the "every rifle is different..." stuff, m'kay? I've seen several references from 204 loaders that the round "likes some jump" to the rifling, so I thought I'd see what the consensus might be, or how far out I might expect to go. Particularly with reference to 39gr Sierras would be nice.

May 24, 2011, 04:26 PM	#2
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	i just got rid of a t/c encore in .204 ruger. it really liked the 32gr vmax's. i was having probs with accuracy until i had the bullets barely seated, had the bullet into the throat as far as i could get it. then it tightened up enormously. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

May 24, 2011, 11:04 PM	#6
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	my encore would do 5 touching holes at 100yds. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

May 25, 2011, 08:27 PM	#7
A_Gamehog Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2009 Location: Central Oregun Posts: 563	I built an AR-15 with a 204 ruger chamber. 1-12 I have shot, 32 & 40 V-max 39 Sierra liked X-Terminator and N-140, R-10X, R-15 hor brass and 205 primers All the R-10X loads shot well! POI changed very little thru the charge ranges. they all load to 2.260 mag COL and shoot very accurate. Specs call for shorter but I just load to 2.260.. Easy to get accurate loads. __________________ "Happiness is knowing the Barred Owl is Eating the Spotted Owl and environmentalists are watching Nature take it's course" Last edited by A_Gamehog; May 25, 2011 at 08:34 PM.

May 25, 2011, 09:31 PM	#9
highvel Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2010 Location: Powhatan VA Posts: 633	Peetzakilla, you've got your computer trained to go check your targets! Cool __________________ Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.--Mark Twain "I have opinions of my own 'strong opinions' but I don't always agree with them."--George Bush

May 24, 2011, 04:43 PM	#3
homesick Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: Central Florida Posts: 378	I had a 700 VTR that would shoot one day and not the next, it did like the 32 gr bullet but seating depth didn't seem to matter. I also had a T/C encore once again it liked 32 gr bullets and Bench Mark powder but seating depth did not seem to matter. The T/C would shoot about 3/4" at best. I have neither of these rifles now, however my next one is going to have a heavy barrel on it maybe a 700 VLS, its just fun to shoot.

May 24, 2011, 05:27 PM	#4
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Well, way to blow my theory right to hell, guys.

May 24, 2011, 09:29 PM	#5
wingman Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2002 Posts: 2,108	My Thompson Center Icon prefers "the jump", it is a super accurate rifle, less then .500 most of the time if I do my part. It shot .375 out of the box with factory Hornady vmax 32gr, one of the few guns I've owned that it is taking a lot work to find reloads better then commerical.

May 25, 2011, 09:08 PM	#8
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	A_Gamehog, Did they Sierras shoot any better or worse than the V-Max? I'm shooting the 32gr V-Max over 28.0gr Benchmark in honest .57 MOA computer measured groups at 100 yards and about .75 MOA at 410 yards.

May 26, 2011, 11:51 AM	#13
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	i had a muzzle brake installed on my 28" encore prohunter bbl, i always had to go the far side of the range as it would cause even the big magnum guys to jump. lol __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

May 26, 2011, 12:06 PM	#14
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Troy, That 28" barrel shot 5 holes touching at 100 yards? I was looking at getting a 28 inch 22-250 barrel but I had read that they have accuracy problems... I'd love to hear they don't. Muzzle brake on a 204... that's funny.

May 26, 2011, 05:46 PM	#15
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	yep, all 5 touching, only with .32gr bullets. with the light encore the barrel would still jump and id miss the impact(clay pigeons at 300yd) with the brake the gun didnt even twitch, it moved even less than a .22lr. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

May 26, 2011, 07:20 PM	#16
langenc Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 1,551	Most guns ARE different. Chamber, leade, amount of erosion and others will add several more.

May 26, 2011, 07:47 PM	#17
A_Gamehog Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2009 Location: Central Oregun Posts: 563	Sorry it too so long to get back Peetzakilla The Sierra's are a deal, you do get what you pay for. The 39's have better groups and BC than any other in the 204 I tried. In the mornings with no winds I shoot the 32 V-Max, after lunch and when the wind blows I shoot the 39's. The 40's V-Max are great also, just the Sierra's are a little better in group size out past 200+ in the winds. The difference in accuracy @ 100 yards with all 3 loads is not much. For close range "wet work" red mist effect, the 32 V-max is really great. 32 V-max's and 25.4 R-10X 39 Sierra and 25.2 R-10X 40 V-Max and 22.5 X-Terminator those are my loads.... POI on them is all very close... __________________ "Happiness is knowing the Barred Owl is Eating the Spotted Owl and environmentalists are watching Nature take it's course" Last edited by A_Gamehog; May 26, 2011 at 09:42 PM.

June 29, 2011, 09:31 AM	#19
bow shot Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2009 Posts: 263	yo, peet' Good to see your post, sorry I'm late to the party, LOL!! I did a lot of tinkering with COAL in my Savage 12 VLP (.204) and really couldn't find one seating depth much better than another. I started at spec COAL, got my optimal charge, and then adjusted COAL around the charge. When I didn't get much reward by adjusting COAL, I stuck with the length that seemed to give me the best accuracy, and went back to tweaking powder. When the the stars line up, I get .3" 5-shot @100, but That can easily go to 0.5". That's 32 VMAx's over 26.8 Benchmark, and my COAL 2.334" I think we've batted this around before too, but it seems I've got to pump quite a few shots away before the groups tighten up, and they stay tight out to around 175 shots... that's how long I've gone experimenting with that thing (how many shots till accuracy comes/goes) anyway...

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