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Old May 24, 2006, 10:59 PM   #51
riverrat66
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I've seen three people take head shots and all made quite a mess. The first was a guy in Nam' shot under the chin and the entire back of his head was gone. Although I could see what was left of his brains he actually lived for what seemed like an eternity but in reality was only a few minutes. The second was a neighbor who called me and asked if he should kill himself inside or outside. When I went over there with the police he had done the deed in the basement by putting a shotgun under his chin. Most of his head was splattered in the joist. And the last was my friend, Harley mechanic and fellow Vietnam veteran who could no longer cope so he put his .45 in his mouth while sitting in his car. Yet another casualty of the war.

Personally I think your friends story is complete BS.
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Originally Posted by UniversalFrost
when you have to kill somebody it isn't something you want to brag about afterwords, that is for the guys that were never there and never saw combat
I agree with UniversalFrost. It's been almost 40 years since I returned from Vietnam and it's only been recently that I've been able to talk about some of my experiences and after so many years many are difficult to recall except for in my dreams. But the smell of death never goes away.

Riverrat66 out...
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Old May 25, 2006, 10:41 PM   #52
publius
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Justifiable homicide is the same thing as murder 3. You have to be convicted to have that on your record.
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Old May 26, 2006, 10:52 AM   #53
ATW525
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I've never heard of any self defense class that teaches to unload clips into people, regardless of the situation.
I've been told to shoot until slide lock at a self defense class before.

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The only time something goes on your record is when YOU BREAK THE LAW and are convicted of that crime.
I can't speak for every state, but as far I'm aware of the law here in NH, arrest records are kept regardless of whether you're convicted or even charged. You need to petition the court to have those records expunged if you're not charged or you're found not guilty at trial.

That being said, those records still wouldn't just pop up during a routine traffic stop.
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Old May 26, 2006, 12:44 PM   #54
Harley Quinn
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Clips and magazines are very different

So if we are talking a clip it is one thing, if we are talking magazines it is another.

One of the things that seperate the knowledgeable and the ignorant.

Clips hold rounds so they can be placed into the magazine at more then one at a time. Magazines hold the ammo as you place them in one at a time (or with the assistance of the clip) usually having springs and followers.

So lets talk apples and apples. Not trying to be anal, just right.

Many times when you only have a magazine that holds 7 rounds, it is not uncommon for it to be emptied very fast. Same with a six shot revolver or five shot.
Training is the key. Does not sound like the guy was trained and he could have been very scared, could have been involved in a crime with drugs. Or he could have stumbled on someone ment to kill him, and he got the drop on him and exterminated the pest.

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Old May 26, 2006, 01:01 PM   #55
gdeal
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.45 Acp

That is why I like a good round. You only need one. Three at the most - you know... 2 to the chest 1 to the head.
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Old May 26, 2006, 01:37 PM   #56
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I am not surprised that the guy in the story would have emptied his mag. Firing a round or two and waiting or standing there looking at the guy to assess his condition can only get you killed IMO. I have been taught to shoot untill you are certain the threat is no longer a threat and if you are not certain shoot untill lockback and reload.

How do you know for certain that your first shots even hit the guy or even if the ones that hit him were enough to do the job? When your adrenaline is pumping and the S%#t is hitting the fan it is easy to loose count of your shots and very hard to detect placement especially when you are moving and hopefully finding cover.

It is alot easier to armchair-quarterback a gunfight from our computers than it is to actually be in the middle of it.
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Old May 26, 2006, 04:39 PM   #57
PinnedAndRecessed
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All these posts and nobody has stated the obvious.
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Old May 26, 2006, 05:03 PM   #58
Capt. Charlie
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All these posts and nobody has stated the obvious.
Um... and that would be.....?
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Old May 30, 2006, 04:11 AM   #59
FreakyRedneck
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And, the only time that criminal history shows up is if you HAVE a criminal history.
Casual contact with an officer does not count.
You have to be arrested, arraigned, tried and convicted. (except for some traffic offenses)
Sorry POWDWERMAN, I believe you are wrong about this....Washington State shows all crimianl arrest. Regardless if the person has been arraigned, tried and or convicted. An arrest is an arrest and it does not just go away. Your criminal history check by LE will show the arrest, even if the charges were dismissed.
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Old May 30, 2006, 12:43 PM   #60
Capt. Charlie
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Sorry POWDWERMAN, I believe you are wrong about this....Washington State shows all crimianl arrest. Regardless if the person has been arraigned, tried and or convicted. An arrest is an arrest and it does not just go away. Your criminal history check by LE will show the arrest, even if the charges were dismissed.
True, IF the check being run is a criminal history check. This is totally different from the check that's done during a routine traffic stop, where that information will not show up.

Driver's license and warrant checks are routine and dissemination of that info is only slightly limited. Criminal history checks are highly restricted, and an inquiry must be justified and documented.
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Old May 31, 2006, 04:45 AM   #61
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Capt. Charlie, You are absolutely correct. Thank You for your input. I should have been more clear on the matter.
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Old May 31, 2006, 05:38 AM   #62
DunedinDragon
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Quote:
Quote:
Sorry POWDWERMAN, I believe you are wrong about this....Washington State shows all crimianl arrest. Regardless if the person has been arraigned, tried and or convicted. An arrest is an arrest and it does not just go away. Your criminal history check by LE will show the arrest, even if the charges were dismissed.

True, IF the check being run is a criminal history check. This is totally different from the check that's done during a routine traffic stop, where that information will not show up.

Driver's license and warrant checks are routine and dissemination of that info is only slightly limited. Criminal history checks are highly restricted, and an inquiry must be justified and documented.
Okay, you guys have me confused now. Are you talking in general or just related to Washington state? In Florida your criminal arrest record is available to everyone over the internet. It doesn't matter if the charges were dismissed or you were found not guilty. It stays there unless you petition to get it removed. Maybe Florida's different due to the Sunshine Law, but it sounded to me like you were talking about this in general as if it applies to all states.
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Old May 31, 2006, 01:42 PM   #63
Capt. Charlie
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Okay, you guys have me confused now.
Understandable, DD; it is confusing.

How restricted the information is depends on the source providing it. A criminal history provided by NCIC (FBI) is highly restricted and a query must be justified by the LE agency requesting it through a case number or other legitimate reason. Non-LE has absolutely NO access this.

On the other hand, if you're a card carrying, paid member of Lexis-Nexis, or other, similar organizations, you, as non-LE, can access the same info, although how in blue blazes THEY get the info is a mystery to me .

Same thing with driver's license or vehicle registration info. If you walk into my cop shop and ask who a particular car belongs to, we cannot, by law, give you that information. Hell, it's a violation to even let you glance at the computer screen. That has to be shielded from public view.

But again, you can go to the state DMV, and request and get the same information, no strings attached! Go figure!

Every state LE agency is bound by the strictest of restrictions in criminal history queries. The reason is that every state and local LE agency that uses NCIC (that's the vast majority of them) is bound by the FBI's user agreement. A violation of the rules can land the officer involved a whopping big fine, or even imprisonment!

But other governmental agencies (non-LE) that don't subscribe to NCIC, aren't bound by those rules, and so can disseminate info much more easily.

I know; it confuses the hell outta me too sometimes .
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Old May 31, 2006, 04:51 PM   #64
DunedinDragon
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And what's really ridiculous is I hear them discussing all of these types of things on my scanner all the time. An officer calls in someone by name, even spells the name, and the info dispatcher comes back with their entire criminal background on clear transmissions for anyone that's listening to hear...including their home address.
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Old June 20, 2006, 08:55 PM   #65
U.S.SFC_RET
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It's hard to be a gentleman in this case but I smell a rat.
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2. Never point a firearm at anything you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep the finger off the trigger and firearm on safe until ready to shoot.
4. Know the target and what's beyond it.
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Old June 20, 2006, 10:06 PM   #66
PinnedAndRecessed
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It's hard to be a gentleman in this case but I smell a rat.
Could you elaborate?
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