Arthur Savage was a genius

Bushmaster1313 · August 11, 2015, 10:45 PM

Took the 1928 .300 Savage 99G to the range today (magenta three shot group at 100 yards with Remington Core Lokt soft point) with only the Lyman aperture and a replacement front sight with enough height.

Not bad for an 87 year old gun:

[having trouble with pictures]

**Mike Irwin** · August 12, 2015, 07:23 AM

"[having trouble with pictures]"

So..... Arthur Savage was more a genius than you?

I've got a circa 1936 EG in .300 Savage. Love that rifle.

g.willikers · August 12, 2015, 09:07 AM

While the Savage 99 has always had an excellent reputation,
For a lever action rifle, they just don't look right.
The same for the Winchester 88 and such, too.
Very good guns, but not pleasing to the eye of a lever action fan.

**Mike Irwin** · August 12, 2015, 09:35 AM

You're correct they don't look "right."

They look absolutely spot on PERFECT.

The first time I ever saw a 99 was on the cover a 1975 edition of American Rifleman magazine.

I knew right then and there that I had to have one some day.

g.willikers · August 12, 2015, 10:25 AM

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, for sure.
Check out some of the new cars that look like tennis shoes.
Folks buy them by the millions.
I did close my eyes once and buy a Winchester 88 in .308, and right around 1975 at that.
It did everything right, but just didn't satisfy the eye of this beholder.
With the larger calibers and subsequent recoil, I discovered that with some practice, a bolt action is just as fast with follow up shots as a bigger boomer lever action.
Not something to play The Rifleman with anyway.

mehavey · August 12, 2015, 10:48 AM

In order of speed [Slowest 1st]:

8. Break action
7. Falling Block/Sharps
6. Rolling Block/Rem
5. Falling Block Ruger#1
4. Bolt action
3. Lever Action
2. Semi-Auto
1. Win Model-12

Tony Z · August 12, 2015, 03:55 PM

Some 40 to 50 years ago, when I first got infected with firearms, I was all bolt action-700 BDL, Model 70, Weatherby, etc., as the "end all, be all" of guns.

About 25 to 30 years ago, I became enamored with lever guns, but the cowboy type of style and couldn't quite look at a Model 99 or a Model 88. Today, to me, both rifles are absolutely beautiful.

For the past decade, I keep kicking myself in the rear for missing out on both of those fine guns. They are both on my bucket list of levers, but I'm only going to settle for great condition and specific calibers. For the Model 99, it will have to be a .250-3000.

jmr40 · August 12, 2015, 04:32 PM

I've always been intrigued by those guns. Never enough to buy one, but have always respected their design. They were truly ahead of their time.

Gunplummer · August 13, 2015, 05:02 AM

The first one I remember shooting was a .303 Savage. When I went to extract the round I could not believe how slick it was. I started working the lever with two fingers to extract. Sure, the gun was really worn in, but you would need 10,000 rounds to get a Marlin or Winchester that smooth. If ever.

KeithNyst · August 13, 2015, 09:19 PM

mehavey, I'd put the Remington 760 pump right up there around 2 and 3.

g.willikers · August 14, 2015, 10:00 AM

Yes, a pump rifle, like a pump shotgun, is a mighty fast action.
Not many to choose from these days, though.

jmr40 · August 16, 2015, 07:04 AM

The bolt rifle and semi auto have risen to the top of the popularity heap for a reason. Pumps have languished for a reason as have the "modern" lever actions such as the Savage 99, Browning BLR, Winchester 88, and others. The traditional cowboy levers are somewhat popular for nostalgic reasons, not practical ones.

Bolt rifles are by far the lightest, have the greatest accuracy potential, are the simplest designs, can be built for less money, and will handle hotter loads that will choke a pump, lever or semi. If someone practices rapid fire drills they are amazingly fast enough for aimed repeat shots. You can unload a magazine through the bore a little faster with a pump or lever, but if the requirement is to actually hit a target with the rounds a bolt action will hang with either.

Semi's give you speed and wins the hit em fast contest by a wide margin. They can be accurate enough.

Pumps and especially levers are fascinating, but complex pieces of machinery. I love my levers, but from a practical perspective they offer no advantages. Not as fast as a semi, generally not as accurate, cheap or light as a bolt gun. While they theoretically should be a tiny bit faster for repeat shots that is only offhand. If firing from any type of supported position, a tree limb, with shooting sticks, bi-pods, or prone both are essentially single shots.

Both designs were tested by the military in the early 1900's and proved less reliable and too slow to operate and reload compared to bolt rifles.

Jack O'Conner · August 16, 2015, 07:06 AM

I've hunted with this Savage 99-C since 1972. It's my long distance rifle (.308) and I've had very good luck with it. Too bad that Savage ceased production but same is true of other classic models.

Jack

Hunter Customs · August 16, 2015, 05:18 PM

Quote:

They look absolutely spot on PERFECT.

My thoughts exactly, in my opinion another plus to the 99's I've shot and shoot is they have a natural swing and follow through making running shots a breeze.

Bushmaster1313 · July 7, 2016, 09:37 PM

dEleted

Scorch · July 8, 2016, 02:24 PM

Perfect? Close. I think it's all about aesthetics, they have that Art Deco look to them. They were different enough at the time that they set themselves apart (unlike the many copies of the Winchesters and Marlins), while being extremely reliable (unlike rifles like the Evans and the Bullard, which were different but too complex to be reliable). Unfortunately for Arthur, the 1895 and 1899 never realized his dream of them being adopted as a military rifle, instead we got copies of the Mauser design (which was better anyway). But as a sporting rifle, they have that certain elegance and shootability that sets them apart. My 1899 take-down manufactured in 1912 has 4 barrels (22HP, 25-35, 30-30, 410), making it an all-species package that could be carried in a small valise.

artsmom · July 8, 2016, 03:38 PM

Usually, one doesn't have to shoot additional shots fast if one can shoot the first one well.

That being said, a lot of places allow more than one deer permit at a time, so faster second and third shots might be of importance. My advice is to shoot the first deer in the head, because it goes straight down it doesn't spook the rest like the jump and a run of a heart / lung shot deer, which tends to send the others off running.

August 12, 2015, 07:23 AM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	"[having trouble with pictures]" So..... Arthur Savage was more a genius than you? I've got a circa 1936 EG in .300 Savage. Love that rifle. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 12, 2015, 09:07 AM	#3
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	While the Savage 99 has always had an excellent reputation, For a lever action rifle, they just don't look right. The same for the Winchester 88 and such, too. Very good guns, but not pleasing to the eye of a lever action fan. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

August 12, 2015, 09:35 AM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	You're correct they don't look "right." They look absolutely spot on PERFECT. The first time I ever saw a 99 was on the cover a 1975 edition of American Rifleman magazine. I knew right then and there that I had to have one some day. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 12, 2015, 10:25 AM	#5
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, for sure. Check out some of the new cars that look like tennis shoes. Folks buy them by the millions. I did close my eyes once and buy a Winchester 88 in .308, and right around 1975 at that. It did everything right, but just didn't satisfy the eye of this beholder. With the larger calibers and subsequent recoil, I discovered that with some practice, a bolt action is just as fast with follow up shots as a bigger boomer lever action. Not something to play The Rifleman with anyway. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

August 14, 2015, 10:00 AM	#11
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Yes, a pump rifle, like a pump shotgun, is a mighty fast action. Not many to choose from these days, though. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

August 11, 2015, 10:45 PM	#1
Bushmaster1313 Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2008 Posts: 339	Arthur Savage was a genius Took the 1928 .300 Savage 99G to the range today (magenta three shot group at 100 yards with Remington Core Lokt soft point) with only the Lyman aperture and a replacement front sight with enough height. Not bad for an 87 year old gun: [having trouble with pictures]

August 12, 2015, 10:48 AM	#6
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,885	In order of speed [Slowest 1st]: 8. Break action 7. Falling Block/Sharps 6. Rolling Block/Rem 5. Falling Block Ruger#1 4. Bolt action 3. Lever Action 2. Semi-Auto 1. Win Model-12

August 12, 2015, 03:55 PM	#7
Tony Z Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2013 Location: North Central Pennsyltucky Posts: 749	Some 40 to 50 years ago, when I first got infected with firearms, I was all bolt action-700 BDL, Model 70, Weatherby, etc., as the "end all, be all" of guns. About 25 to 30 years ago, I became enamored with lever guns, but the cowboy type of style and couldn't quite look at a Model 99 or a Model 88. Today, to me, both rifles are absolutely beautiful. For the past decade, I keep kicking myself in the rear for missing out on both of those fine guns. They are both on my bucket list of levers, but I'm only going to settle for great condition and specific calibers. For the Model 99, it will have to be a .250-3000.

August 12, 2015, 04:32 PM	#8
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	I've always been intrigued by those guns. Never enough to buy one, but have always respected their design. They were truly ahead of their time.

August 13, 2015, 05:02 AM	#9
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	The first one I remember shooting was a .303 Savage. When I went to extract the round I could not believe how slick it was. I started working the lever with two fingers to extract. Sure, the gun was really worn in, but you would need 10,000 rounds to get a Marlin or Winchester that smooth. If ever.

August 13, 2015, 09:19 PM	#10
KeithNyst Junior Member Join Date: January 22, 2011 Posts: 13	mehavey, I'd put the Remington 760 pump right up there around 2 and 3.

August 16, 2015, 07:04 AM	#12
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	The bolt rifle and semi auto have risen to the top of the popularity heap for a reason. Pumps have languished for a reason as have the "modern" lever actions such as the Savage 99, Browning BLR, Winchester 88, and others. The traditional cowboy levers are somewhat popular for nostalgic reasons, not practical ones. Bolt rifles are by far the lightest, have the greatest accuracy potential, are the simplest designs, can be built for less money, and will handle hotter loads that will choke a pump, lever or semi. If someone practices rapid fire drills they are amazingly fast enough for aimed repeat shots. You can unload a magazine through the bore a little faster with a pump or lever, but if the requirement is to actually hit a target with the rounds a bolt action will hang with either. Semi's give you speed and wins the hit em fast contest by a wide margin. They can be accurate enough. Pumps and especially levers are fascinating, but complex pieces of machinery. I love my levers, but from a practical perspective they offer no advantages. Not as fast as a semi, generally not as accurate, cheap or light as a bolt gun. While they theoretically should be a tiny bit faster for repeat shots that is only offhand. If firing from any type of supported position, a tree limb, with shooting sticks, bi-pods, or prone both are essentially single shots. Both designs were tested by the military in the early 1900's and proved less reliable and too slow to operate and reload compared to bolt rifles.

August 16, 2015, 07:06 AM	#13
Jack O'Conner Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2005 Location: Manatee County, Florida Posts: 1,976	I've hunted with this Savage 99-C since 1972. It's my long distance rifle (.308) and I've had very good luck with it. Too bad that Savage ceased production but same is true of other classic models. Jack __________________ Fire up the grill! Deer hunting IS NOT catch and release.

July 7, 2016, 09:37 PM	#15
Bushmaster1313 Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2008 Posts: 339	dEleted

July 8, 2016, 02:24 PM	#16
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Perfect? Close. I think it's all about aesthetics, they have that Art Deco look to them. They were different enough at the time that they set themselves apart (unlike the many copies of the Winchesters and Marlins), while being extremely reliable (unlike rifles like the Evans and the Bullard, which were different but too complex to be reliable). Unfortunately for Arthur, the 1895 and 1899 never realized his dream of them being adopted as a military rifle, instead we got copies of the Mauser design (which was better anyway). But as a sporting rifle, they have that certain elegance and shootability that sets them apart. My 1899 take-down manufactured in 1912 has 4 barrels (22HP, 25-35, 30-30, 410), making it an all-species package that could be carried in a small valise. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 8, 2016, 03:38 PM	#17
artsmom Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 334	Usually, one doesn't have to shoot additional shots fast if one can shoot the first one well. That being said, a lot of places allow more than one deer permit at a time, so faster second and third shots might be of importance. My advice is to shoot the first deer in the head, because it goes straight down it doesn't spook the rest like the jump and a run of a heart / lung shot deer, which tends to send the others off running.