Armed Citizen: Oklahoma Pharmacist Defends Employees from Robbers

[Wildalaska]

All trials are open to the public. You can be the boots on the ground

Wildillsendya$20forgasAlaska TM

[Dually]

He did the right thing, those thugs ment to kill him. I'm tired of people throwing the racist card whenever they think it may work to their advantage.

[Playboypenguin]

He did the right thing, those thugs ment to kill him

So you know that they went in there to kill him...with their one unloaded gun?

[Beentown71]

I think someone forgot to study before the quiz

Beentown

[Mello2u]

I wonder if the best defense for the Ersland is some sort of diminished capacity.

I do not know Oklahoma law, so if there is a charge that would be proper for someone who acted "in the heat of the moment" or "in hot blood" that is sometimes called manslaughter in some jurisdictions, that might be the best and fair.

Maybe some sort of post traumatic stress syndrome defense from his injuries during his service during Desert Storm? Temporary insanity?

I'm assuming facts not in evidence (since there has been no trial) about the time period when Ersland fired the five shots into the decedent:
the decedent was not conscious
the decedent was not armed

[21CFA]

""" this guy stood over this shot kid and pumped rounds into his chest why he was struggling"""". For whom do you work up there? ABC news?? You bin readin' too many Miami CSI scripts. "Paucity"??? Were you in Army Intell in the 60s?? And on this paucity you base wild surmises!! Stay put in AK. ("Bovine Scatology" originated in the USAFSS 69xx Squadrons in communications between DaNang and Udorn, in SITREPS, about 1966) All the Rx employee needs is a good attorney to back him up on "I thought he would kill us all." Reflex. He'd already been shot ONCE, according to a previous thread.

[Playboypenguin]

Originally Posted by 21CFA

He'd already been shot ONCE.

Are you saying he had been shot once during this encounter?

[OuTcAsT]

Maybe some sort of post traumatic stress syndrome defense from his injuries during his service during Desert Storm?

His service records indicate that he was not in the military during Desert Storm, nor was he injured. (this is one of a multitude of un-truths this man has claimed)

He'd already been shot ONCE.

No, he had not, at least not by either of the robbers,
the evidence at the scene proved that there were no shots fired by anyone other than the pharmacist.

It was also later revealed that the robbers entered the store with an empty firearm.


Perhaps you guys should spend a few moments of "quality time" actually reading some of the posts and links provided in this thread, you might find it educational, and, it will put you in a more informed position to discuss this incident.

[21CFA]

"........shooting death of a would-be robber." What!?!? "Would be" ?? What happened to the description of the dead BG that said, "...who had just shot and wounded the pharmacist before the felon (supposed) himself was also shot." ?? Why is this depressed blond with the distressed eyebrows so sympathetic to the dead felon?? "....after the head-shot..." Why did she not say "...the first shot..."? The Rx guy was also still alive after the" first shot." Oh yeah, let's not forget that the Rx guy used an "AUTOMATIC" pistol! And the plot thickens as the "would be robber" becomes "the wounded robber."

To hogdogs:"twitch, flinch, or moan just before being shot the last 5 times? None of these actions deem a man a threat to life, limb or liberty!" Well, let's see if you remember that notorious video of a G.I. shooting a Taliban fighter who "moved" out of the corner of his eye. Training takes over, and reflex follows. I haven't seen ANY clear, plain video of this incident. And as for "Supposedly disabled" pharmacist, you who demean his wounds would be obliged to put up YOUR own DD214 or shut-up. "He scoffs at scars, who never felt a wound" Wm Shakespeare.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

That's a good idea, Outcast.

Rather than repeating myths - reread the info threads. Also, this has been a good thread - remember to keep the tone civil. If you look around, you will see that some long time participants of T and T are not longer with us.

If you have a personal problem with a post, report it.

[21CFA]

I was going on early quotes in posts, and not on later evidence. And WOWZEEE, did they ever pick up on the pharmacist's DoD records in lightning time!!!!! I was not aware that DoD records were public access when pertaining to certain medical conditions, unless the inquirer is professionally licensed and duly recommended to access. News sources are HARDLY professional. No such thing as "professional journalist." Mea culpa again. Also, to OuTcAsT : Re post #708. Howz about some citations and sources for the "facts" you state in this post? " His service records indicate that he was not in the military during Desert Storm, nor was he injured. (this is one of a multitude of un-truths this man has claimed)" ¿¿ Source please ?? "... he had not((been shot)), at least not by either of the robbers, the evidence at the scene proved that there were no shots fired by anyone other than the pharmacist. " ¿¿Source please?? "It was also later revealed", does not hack it as a reliable source.

[hogdogs]

To hogdogs:"twitch, flinch, or moan just before being shot the last 5 times? None of these actions deem a man a threat to life, limb or liberty!" Well, let's see if you remember that notorious video of a G.I. shooting a Taliban fighter who "moved" out of the corner of his eye. Training takes over, and reflex follows. I haven't seen ANY clear, plain video of this incident. And as for "Supposedly disabled" pharmacist, you who demean his wounds would be obliged to put up YOUR own DD214 or shut-up. "He scoffs at scars, who never felt a wound" Wm Shakespeare.

Bud, You have no clue at all... While US Military trained I am not... I have spent my time "in battle" I have also spent more time in ICU for various accidental injuries than most of the American population.

Well, let's see if you remember that notorious video of a G.I. shooting a Taliban fighter who "moved" out of the corner of his eye.

Real soldier... Real battle... Our pharmacist is a liar of the most low life type that claim active duty battle experience when it never happened! I have 5 expletives to describe this puke but I like my membership here! Any human that claims US military active duty battle experience that did not happen is 3 rungs lower than a crack dealer to me!

I haven't seen ANY clear, plain video of this incident.

The only footage shows our "soldier poser" standing point blank over the punk and filling him full of lead while obviously not distressed in the least...

And as for "Supposedly disabled" pharmacist, you who demean his wounds would be obliged to put up YOUR own DD214 or shut-up

I don't know what a DD214 is but I never claimed battle hours in a war I never was in the service to take part in! As for the "SHUT UP" aspect... you have the right to 1st amendment as do I. I support real vets.. not liars who claim battle hours that they were not even in the service for! Had he spoken such BS in my presence and I known him a liar, he would have faced physical retribution for such fraudulent claims.
ONLY REAL SOLDIERS SHOULD CLAIM THEY WERE THERE!
Brent

[DeltaB]

Howz about some citations and sources for the "facts" you state in this post? " His service records indicate that he was not in the military during Desert Storm, nor was he injured. (this is one of a multitude of un-truths this man has claimed)" ¿¿ Source please ?? "... he had not((been shot)), at least not by either of the robbers, the evidence at the scene proved that there were no shots fired by anyone other than the pharmacist. " ¿¿Source please?? "It was also later revealed", does not hack it as a reliable source.

Simply take some time and review the posts and you will find the links. They took the time to research the issue and give the posts.

[Mello2u]

OuTcAsT

His service records indicate that he was not in the military during Desert Storm, nor was he injured. (this is one of a multitude of un-truths this man has claimed)

No, he had not, at least not by either of the robbers,
the evidence at the scene proved that there were no shots fired by anyone other than the pharmacist.

It was also later revealed that the robbers entered the store with an empty firearm.

Perhaps you guys should spend a few moments of "quality time" actually reading some of the posts and links provided in this thread, you might find it educational, and, it will put you in a more informed position to discuss this incident.
__________________

I missed the two posts (#574 and 581) out of over 700 in this thread which mentioned the news report about Ersland admitting he had misrepresented his military service.

DeltaB raises several important issues throughout this thread.

You've got to realize that to read all of the posts on this tread and the links takes at least 3 hours. I read at about 600 words per minute too.

I was trying to contribute something thoughtful to the thread. I'm sorry that I did not read each and every word of each posting or follow each and every link.

[OuTcAsT]

Howz about some citations and sources for the "facts" you state in this post?

Respectfully Sir,

Let us attempt to use something that resembles the English
language, as we discuss this incident further, shall we ?

" His service records indicate that he was not in the military during Desert Storm, nor was he injured. (this is one of a multitude of un-truths this man has claimed)" ¿¿ Source please ??

... he had not((been shot)), at least not by either of the robbers, the evidence at the scene proved that there were no shots fired by anyone other than the pharmacist. " ¿¿Source please??

"It was also later revealed", does not hack it as a reliable source.

Again, respectfully Sir, Many of us have spent countless hours researching this incident, poured over every available detail, and weighed the possibilities ad nauseum,

It is only out of the sheer humor of your hubris, that I assemble the links for you, and others to peruse. If you do not find the sources "hack" to your satisfaction, then by all means feel free to post sources of your own.

Here's the initial news report: http://newsok.com/pharmacist-is-glad...rticle/3371710 ("Man Has No Regrets Defending Pharmacy") Pay attention to what he says in that interview, and then watch the videos below with his words in mind. (This is what he said before he was charged.)

Here's the raw surveillance camera footage: http://newsok.com/multimedia/video/24432753001

Here's the affadavit of probable cause: http://s3.amazonaws.com/content.news...armdoc0001.pdf

Here's a short, edited version of an interview with the prosecuting DA, which includes a few statements from Ersland's defense attorney: http://newsok.com/multimedia/video/24432794001

Here's the extended interview with the DA, uncut. It is hard to hear in spots, and it is WELL worth the 20 minutes it takes to view: http://www.news9.com/Global/category...clipId=3804065

And here's an article about this DA's view of the 2nd Amendment: http://newsok.com/self-defense-allow...rticle/3373148 (The money quote: "I do not want the charging of Jerome Ersland with first-degree murder to have a chilling effect on any person legitimately in a position to defend themselves from an assailant,” ... the decision should not cause anyone to hesitate to use appropriate force if faced by the "imminent threat of serious injury or death from another person.”)

Interestingly, at the bail hearing, the DA (prosecutor) strongly objected to the judge's order forbidding the defendant to own firearms until after the case was resolved. See http://newsok.com/pharmacist-in-fata...rticle/3373194 for that whole story.

This link reports on the O'Reilly interview which happened after he was charged with murder.

There's also a good page here with ongoing local coverage of the situation.

And finally, here's a link to the best in-depth analysis article I've yet seen: here.

The stories about his service record are contained in this thread somewhere, and I have neither the time, nor inclination, to do your research for you.

Hopefully, you will find the answers which you seek, otherwise, I have nothing to prove to you, and you may research on your own, to refute my statements if you must.

Respectfully submitted in the interest of a continuing discussion,

OuTcAsT

[21CFA]

Thanks for high-browing us with meagre command of the language (obvious obfuscation) but I requested of you and any others, if you put a post quoting "facts", at least carry the citation forward along with those "facts." I am guilty of being led to crappy assessments of the incident by equally crappy (or merely out-of-date) posts that have bombarded this item lately. I'm taking two steps back, and apologizing for commenting on other unverified "facts" and being too lazy and quick on the trigger with my comments.

[Shane Tuttle]

Originally Posted by 21CFA

News sources are HARDLY professional. No such thing as "professional journalist."

Then why are you so inclined to request for sources? If a member provides his/her source, what good is it if you'll automatically dismiss it?

One other thing: post #706 is hardly beneficial by claiming BS in no certain terms on another member.
I'd HIGHLY recommend thinking twice, posting once from here on out, sir.

[PKato]

But I do think more was made out of the situation because it was a white shooter and a young black male. I do agree that more facts would be needed, but just from the scenario described, honestly and I was a cop in the military...that if I was on a jury, there is no way I am going to convict this guy of any wrong-doing. Just my opinion. Bottom line though...the kid who was killed COULD have avoided the entire rotten scene! He did have control over that, he could have chosen not to rob the place.

[21CFA]

Quote, "why are you so inclined to request for sources? If a member provides his/her source, what good is it if you'll automatically dismiss it?" Answer: I would not "automatically diss" it. If it's the D.A., I'm more inclined to believe it than if a Katy Couric-type news-reader said it. Unless, of course, there is a following video clip. THAT'S a citation. O.K. . . . . Need a little help on finding the surveillance video that shows the Rx guy "pumping bullets" into the fallen alleged perp. (BTW, since the perp had dropped his "unloaded" gun, was he not then unarmed? If it were not loaded, was he unarmed? (And ANY gun pointed at ME I'll consider loaded, and take appropriate actions. How do you feel about it, yourself?) I've seen cameras #1, #2, and #3, but can't see the "execution" video. Any help??

[PKato]

If there is more facts, like you say...I would like to read them, but when I tried using the links they wouldn't work for me...the story was either expired or the links were incorrect...am interested though.

thanks

[PT111]

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...&postcount=501

Look back to post #500 on page 21 for the original post by PAX. Those links should work.

[OuTcAsT]

I would like to read them, but when I tried using the links they wouldn't work for me

I tried them, and they seemed to work, sorry you are having difficulties PKato. the original source is from a site by the "Oklahoman" newspaper. http://newsok.com.

You may have to search a bit, but they have a section devoted entirely to this incident. Hope that helps.

[OuTcAsT]

(BTW, since the perp had dropped his "unloaded" gun, was he not then unarmed? If it were not loaded, was he unarmed?

If you indeed watched the video as you claim;

I've seen cameras #1, #2, and #3

Then you, undoubtedly, through the same powers of observation that the rest of us relied on, saw that the only armed "perp" fled the store, with gun in hand, and the pharmacist in pursuit. The "perp" that was shot only had a mask, which he spent his entire conscious time in the store, attempting to put on.

If not, might I suggest a re-viewing is in order ?

was he unarmed?

Yes, as in; "had no armament" empty handed, save, of course, a mask.

[21CFA]

to make a call either way, but listening to the D.A, I'd say the Rx Guy's goose is cooked. Yes, I've watched it several times (NOT over the "countless hours" - - - - c'mon man!) and can't see it for the darkness. D.A. has to be right, tho'.

[hogdogs]

21, Maybe your video viewer could be set too dark. The 3 in store vids are bright and fairly high def color jobbies.
I understand, I REALLY DO, that many getting involved in this discussion are newer to TFL than the discussion at hand. I also realize it is time consuming to read all at once. Take yer time read a page or 2 at a time. Then jump in. We that have been involved in the discussion from the onset actually have more time invested as we continuously update ourselves both here and with the news sources.

I also take high offense at a suggestion that this thread has been biased due to race of either involved party. I, personally, couldn't care less if the down BG was a purple polka dot poodle and the shooter a pitbull or vice versa... I am all for legal self defense of the most barbaric and bloody sort so long as it is within the law!
But you can't just walk up and "Clint Eastwood" a downed wounded punk on cameras!
Brent