resizing 45 acp and 38 sp/357 mag

ittybittyb · April 29, 2009, 10:17 PM

I am reloading .45 acp, .38 special and .357 mag. I have the bullets, the dies, the press, and all the powder data. When I load a 45 round everything goes smoothly but sometimes the shell dosnt fit correctly into the chamber and when it ejects the shell it jams. I think I need a resizing kit but cant figure out if a regular 454 resizing die is all I need to make it insert and eject smoothly.... Also I have a colt python that I reload 38 sp and 357 mag for. When I make the round the same problem occurs. The shell just wont fit down the cylinder with ease...not sure if all I need is a resizing die on that one too but if so Im not sure which one. If anyone has any solutions it would be greatlu appreciated! Thanks!

bullspotter · April 29, 2009, 10:36 PM

UHH yeah you need to size the brass before reloading, should be a size die in both sets of dies. Are you crimping them? Have you loaded before? Can you take some pics and post them?

Mark whiz · April 29, 2009, 10:38 PM

I see this as possibly 1 of 2 problems depending on circumstances:

1. what size (diameter) bullets are you loading? .45ACP "usually" uses either a .451" or a .452" bullet and 38/357 uses a .357" bullet. If you are using larger ones, your case mouths might be forced out by the bullet and causing your issues.

2. If your bullet sizes are correct - then I have to ask are you crimping the case mouths down on the bullets enough to remove the "bell" on the case mouth - that could sure keep the cases from chambering properly.

RickV · April 30, 2009, 05:58 AM

I would check the head stamp of you brass. In my 1911 any rounds I would load with a-merc brass would do the same thing and it only happened with a-merc brass. So I went thru all my 45acp brass and got rid of the a-merc crap. As for 38spl/357 it could be that you don't have your seating die adjusted properly and it creating a slight almost unnoticable case bulge when seating the bullet (actually that could be the problem with the 45 also). Go to your loader's manufacturers website they usually have some videos on how to adjust the dies.

ittybittyb · May 1, 2009, 12:22 AM

Ok, thanks!I am loading 230 grain in my 45 acp and 158 grain in the 357 mag. I can try to get some pictures posted. im not sure exactly what ''crimping is''. Is it a whole seperate die from the bullet seater? And yes I do believe the bullet seater on the 357 is set correctly. Your right the bulge in the 357 is almost unnoticeable. Yes, this is my first time reloading. I am bidding on two resizing dies on ebay. One is a .454 and the other is a 357. Will these work in resizing both loads???

ittybittyb · May 1, 2009, 12:23 AM

O and I use only federal, winchester, and sometimes pmc ammunition.

rjrivero · May 1, 2009, 12:59 AM

You typically need 3 or 4 dies per caliber. One is a sizing die. It forms the brass back into the lowest specification. Usually de-primes the case. Then a dye to "bell mouth" the case to make seating a bullet easier. After priming the case, and loading powder, you then SEAT the bullet with a seating die. Some seating dies also CRIMP, but some do not. The next step is to crimp the brass to the bullet to keep it from coming out, and to allow the round to chamber correctly.

It sounds as if you need to adjust your crimp die. If you have the manuals for your dies, it should tell you how to do this.

RJ

Sport45 · May 1, 2009, 04:45 AM

Quote:

I have the bullets, the dies, the press, and all the powder data.

Sounds like you still need a reloading manual. The Lee manual is not expensive and will take you step by step through the process.

Quote:

I am bidding on two resizing dies on ebay. One is a .454 and the other is a 357. Will these work in resizing both loads???

A .357 die set can be used for .357mag, but the crimp die will be too deep to use for .38 special. The sizing die can be used for .357 or .38 special. I don't know the OD of a .454 case off the top of my head to say if that die could be used to size a .45acp case. I wouldn't buy one just to find out.

You said you had the dies. Why won't they work?

JFN · May 1, 2009, 07:51 AM

For handgun cartridges you typically use three dies, four if you want easier setup and adjustment for the crimping phase.

Your first die should be the decapper/sizer. As the ram pushes it into the die it squeezes the whole cartridge down to size, they expanded some when fired, and/or may be dented or slightly out of round. At the same time it punches out the old primer. The down stroke of the ram will seat the new primer. There is not much adjustment on this die, it will be adjusted down to touch the shellplate when the ram is raised, and the decapping pin needs to extend at least 3/16" below the die to make sure it can push the old primer out.

The second die is the expander/powder drop. This bells the case mouth just slightly, so when a bullet is seated it won't shave off the sides as it is pressed into the case. The die is hollow and this is also the stage where you add powder to the case. This die may be your problem, as you are likely expanding the case mouth too much and too deep. You only need a little bell at the mouth, you want to go for minimum here rather than maximum. Screw the die down until it touches the empty shellplate, then back it out at least 1 turn. Put your decapped/sized case from the previous step into the shellholder and raise the ram. Screw the die up or down to adjust how much bell, and also how deep, you are expanding it. You only want a little bit, if the cartridge mouth looks like a trumpet you went too far. Tighten the locknut when you've got it right If you go too far when adjusting, just run it back in your decapping/sizing die to get back to square one.

The third die is the seating/crimping die. If you are using a fourth die for crimping this die will only be seating the bullet to the correct depth and is an easy adjustment. If it is used for seating and crimping at the same time adjustment is a multi-step process.

Put an empty cartridge in the shellholder and raise the ram. Screw the die down until it touches the cartridge rim, then snug the locknut. Lower the ram and back out the seating adjustment screw on top of the die, then set a bullet in the case mouth and raise the ram. Continue cycling the ram and adjusting the seating screw down until the bullet is seated at the correct COL. Now you have the bullet seating at the proper depth. If you have a 4th crimping die you are done with the seating die.

If you are using it for seating and crimping you now have to adjust the crimp. Lower the ram and back out the seating adjustment screw so it won't press the bullet any farther into the case while you are setting the crimp. You 'll have to re-adjust that again after you get the crimp setting done. Screw the die in a 1/4 turn or less and raise the ram. Check the round and see if the bell has been removed, or for revolver cartridges the crimp is rolled in just slightly. Keep adjusting the die down until you get just enough crimp, don't overdo it. If you crimp too hard on a lead bullet it will squeeze it, but the lead doesn't spring back like the brass, so over crimping will actually produce a loose crimp. When you get the crimp set then tighten the locknut on the die. Now raise the ram and screw the seating adjustment screw back down till it's firmly against the bullet nose, and you're done.

The 4th factory crimp die is the last stage. Raise the ram and screw the die down until it touches the shellholder, then tighten the locknut. Back out the crimp adjusting screw on the top of the die, then place your round with the seated bullet in the shellholder and raise the ram. Screw the adjustment screw down until it touches the case mouth. That is zero crimp. Lower the ram some and screw the adjusting screw down about a 1/2 turn to start. Keep cycling the ram and adjusting the screw down until you achieve the right amount of crimp. It is the same adjustment described above for the seating/crimping die except your doing it with the adjustment screw rather than adjusting the whole die up and down.

Once you have the dies set try loading your first round. After each step remove the shell from the shellholder and check to make sure everything is as it should be. After the final crimp check overall length to make sure that is correct and pull/push on the bullet to make sure it is held firmly in the case.

I use the same dies for .357 as for .38. Everything is the same except for overall length and the seating/crimping adjustments take care of that.

A .45acp case is .476" OD and .452" ID
A .45 Colt case is .480" OD and .454" ID
So I think the .454 die is for .45 Colt, but I don't load that so I'm not sure about that one.

SL1 · May 1, 2009, 09:41 AM

ittybittyb,

Your first post is confusing. It READS like you did NOT size your brass before you charged with powder and seated your bullets. IF that is what you did, then STOP! You need to learn the proper reloading process before you fire any of those rounds.

That is especially true for the .45 ACP rounds, because what it seems like you are doing would be DANGEROUS. The problem is that the case mouth MUST be resized so that it holds the bullet tightly. Crimping a case on a bullet that is loose in the case mouth is not adequate. In an auto-loading pistol like a .45 ACP, the impact of the cartridge against the feed ramp will drive a loose bullet back into the case, substantially reducing the space left for the powder. When a cartridge with a set-back bullet is fired, the pressure can be MUCH higher than the loading data indicates, due to the much smaller space for the powder, and you can BLOW-UP YOUR GUN and injure yourself and maybe some innocents standing near you.

If you DO know how to reload properly, and your post was just not conveying that, then I apologize for this surmon. But, I felt that somebody needed to say something to make sure that you aren't about to hurt yourself.

SL1

harry carey · May 1, 2009, 08:31 PM

when I worked in a gun range 90% of the case ruptures with remanufactured ammo was AMERC brass.

ittybittyb · May 2, 2009, 03:18 AM

So the deprimer and the sizer is the same die and the bullet seater and the crimper is also the same die??? If this is case then I must not have the dies adjusted properly. I have shot about 300 rounds out of the 45 and none of them have misfired or anything they just jam like all the time...and yes this is my first experience in reloading. Also is it ok to use magnium primers in the .38 sp rounds? Im going to start completely over nd follow the steps you stated, JFN, annd see what I come up with....any more tips that you might have would be great! Thanks for all your help guys! If i have any issues with these next rounds I'l let ya know!

SL1 · May 2, 2009, 07:32 AM

The decapping die designed for a SPECIFIC cartridge is also the sizing die. HOWEVER, there are "universal decapping dies" that are available that will ONLY decap, WITHOUT sizing. It is hard to tell exactly what you are actually using and doing by reading what you write here.

The first question is whether your dies make the case mouth tight around the bullet. IF so, and I guess it is since you have shot some of your .45s without pressure problems, then the issues about getting the brass to fit the chambers is PROBABLY die adjustment.

Are you using carbide dies? How far down are they adjusted (e.g., just touching the shellholder when the ram is raised, not touching, or turned in some fraction of a turn beyond where it touches)?

SL1

April 29, 2009, 10:17 PM	#1
ittybittyb Junior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Posts: 4	resizing 45 acp and 38 sp/357 mag I am reloading .45 acp, .38 special and .357 mag. I have the bullets, the dies, the press, and all the powder data. When I load a 45 round everything goes smoothly but sometimes the shell dosnt fit correctly into the chamber and when it ejects the shell it jams. I think I need a resizing kit but cant figure out if a regular 454 resizing die is all I need to make it insert and eject smoothly.... Also I have a colt python that I reload 38 sp and 357 mag for. When I make the round the same problem occurs. The shell just wont fit down the cylinder with ease...not sure if all I need is a resizing die on that one too but if so Im not sure which one. If anyone has any solutions it would be greatlu appreciated! Thanks!

April 29, 2009, 10:38 PM	#3
Mark whiz Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Wabash, IN Posts: 227	I see this as possibly 1 of 2 problems depending on circumstances: 1. what size (diameter) bullets are you loading? .45ACP "usually" uses either a .451" or a .452" bullet and 38/357 uses a .357" bullet. If you are using larger ones, your case mouths might be forced out by the bullet and causing your issues. 2. If your bullet sizes are correct - then I have to ask are you crimping the case mouths down on the bullets enough to remove the "bell" on the case mouth - that could sure keep the cases from chambering properly. __________________ "Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3) Aim small.........miss small. Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

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April 29, 2009, 10:36 PM	#2
bullspotter Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2008 Location: Montana Posts: 308	UHH yeah you need to size the brass before reloading, should be a size die in both sets of dies. Are you crimping them? Have you loaded before? Can you take some pics and post them?

April 30, 2009, 05:58 AM	#4
RickV Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2008 Location: North Florida Posts: 172	I would check the head stamp of you brass. In my 1911 any rounds I would load with a-merc brass would do the same thing and it only happened with a-merc brass. So I went thru all my 45acp brass and got rid of the a-merc crap. As for 38spl/357 it could be that you don't have your seating die adjusted properly and it creating a slight almost unnoticable case bulge when seating the bullet (actually that could be the problem with the 45 also). Go to your loader's manufacturers website they usually have some videos on how to adjust the dies.

May 1, 2009, 12:22 AM	#5
ittybittyb Junior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Posts: 4	Ok, thanks!I am loading 230 grain in my 45 acp and 158 grain in the 357 mag. I can try to get some pictures posted. im not sure exactly what ''crimping is''. Is it a whole seperate die from the bullet seater? And yes I do believe the bullet seater on the 357 is set correctly. Your right the bulge in the 357 is almost unnoticeable. Yes, this is my first time reloading. I am bidding on two resizing dies on ebay. One is a .454 and the other is a 357. Will these work in resizing both loads???

May 1, 2009, 12:23 AM	#6
ittybittyb Junior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Posts: 4	O and I use only federal, winchester, and sometimes pmc ammunition.

May 1, 2009, 12:59 AM	#7
rjrivero Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 1,399	You typically need 3 or 4 dies per caliber. One is a sizing die. It forms the brass back into the lowest specification. Usually de-primes the case. Then a dye to "bell mouth" the case to make seating a bullet easier. After priming the case, and loading powder, you then SEAT the bullet with a seating die. Some seating dies also CRIMP, but some do not. The next step is to crimp the brass to the bullet to keep it from coming out, and to allow the round to chamber correctly. It sounds as if you need to adjust your crimp die. If you have the manuals for your dies, it should tell you how to do this. RJ

May 1, 2009, 07:51 AM	#9
JFN Member Join Date: July 4, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 45	For handgun cartridges you typically use three dies, four if you want easier setup and adjustment for the crimping phase. Your first die should be the decapper/sizer. As the ram pushes it into the die it squeezes the whole cartridge down to size, they expanded some when fired, and/or may be dented or slightly out of round. At the same time it punches out the old primer. The down stroke of the ram will seat the new primer. There is not much adjustment on this die, it will be adjusted down to touch the shellplate when the ram is raised, and the decapping pin needs to extend at least 3/16" below the die to make sure it can push the old primer out. The second die is the expander/powder drop. This bells the case mouth just slightly, so when a bullet is seated it won't shave off the sides as it is pressed into the case. The die is hollow and this is also the stage where you add powder to the case. This die may be your problem, as you are likely expanding the case mouth too much and too deep. You only need a little bell at the mouth, you want to go for minimum here rather than maximum. Screw the die down until it touches the empty shellplate, then back it out at least 1 turn. Put your decapped/sized case from the previous step into the shellholder and raise the ram. Screw the die up or down to adjust how much bell, and also how deep, you are expanding it. You only want a little bit, if the cartridge mouth looks like a trumpet you went too far. Tighten the locknut when you've got it right If you go too far when adjusting, just run it back in your decapping/sizing die to get back to square one. The third die is the seating/crimping die. If you are using a fourth die for crimping this die will only be seating the bullet to the correct depth and is an easy adjustment. If it is used for seating and crimping at the same time adjustment is a multi-step process. Put an empty cartridge in the shellholder and raise the ram. Screw the die down until it touches the cartridge rim, then snug the locknut. Lower the ram and back out the seating adjustment screw on top of the die, then set a bullet in the case mouth and raise the ram. Continue cycling the ram and adjusting the seating screw down until the bullet is seated at the correct COL. Now you have the bullet seating at the proper depth. If you have a 4th crimping die you are done with the seating die. If you are using it for seating and crimping you now have to adjust the crimp. Lower the ram and back out the seating adjustment screw so it won't press the bullet any farther into the case while you are setting the crimp. You 'll have to re-adjust that again after you get the crimp setting done. Screw the die in a 1/4 turn or less and raise the ram. Check the round and see if the bell has been removed, or for revolver cartridges the crimp is rolled in just slightly. Keep adjusting the die down until you get just enough crimp, don't overdo it. If you crimp too hard on a lead bullet it will squeeze it, but the lead doesn't spring back like the brass, so over crimping will actually produce a loose crimp. When you get the crimp set then tighten the locknut on the die. Now raise the ram and screw the seating adjustment screw back down till it's firmly against the bullet nose, and you're done. The 4th factory crimp die is the last stage. Raise the ram and screw the die down until it touches the shellholder, then tighten the locknut. Back out the crimp adjusting screw on the top of the die, then place your round with the seated bullet in the shellholder and raise the ram. Screw the adjustment screw down until it touches the case mouth. That is zero crimp. Lower the ram some and screw the adjusting screw down about a 1/2 turn to start. Keep cycling the ram and adjusting the screw down until you achieve the right amount of crimp. It is the same adjustment described above for the seating/crimping die except your doing it with the adjustment screw rather than adjusting the whole die up and down. Once you have the dies set try loading your first round. After each step remove the shell from the shellholder and check to make sure everything is as it should be. After the final crimp check overall length to make sure that is correct and pull/push on the bullet to make sure it is held firmly in the case. I use the same dies for .357 as for .38. Everything is the same except for overall length and the seating/crimping adjustments take care of that. A .45acp case is .476" OD and .452" ID A .45 Colt case is .480" OD and .454" ID So I think the .454 die is for .45 Colt, but I don't load that so I'm not sure about that one.

May 1, 2009, 09:41 AM	#10
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	ittybittyb, Your first post is confusing. It READS like you did NOT size your brass before you charged with powder and seated your bullets. IF that is what you did, then STOP! You need to learn the proper reloading process before you fire any of those rounds. That is especially true for the .45 ACP rounds, because what it seems like you are doing would be DANGEROUS. The problem is that the case mouth MUST be resized so that it holds the bullet tightly. Crimping a case on a bullet that is loose in the case mouth is not adequate. In an auto-loading pistol like a .45 ACP, the impact of the cartridge against the feed ramp will drive a loose bullet back into the case, substantially reducing the space left for the powder. When a cartridge with a set-back bullet is fired, the pressure can be MUCH higher than the loading data indicates, due to the much smaller space for the powder, and you can BLOW-UP YOUR GUN and injure yourself and maybe some innocents standing near you. If you DO know how to reload properly, and your post was just not conveying that, then I apologize for this surmon. But, I felt that somebody needed to say something to make sure that you aren't about to hurt yourself. SL1

May 1, 2009, 08:31 PM	#11
harry carey Member Join Date: April 25, 2009 Location: georgia Posts: 67	when I worked in a gun range 90% of the case ruptures with remanufactured ammo was AMERC brass.

May 2, 2009, 03:18 AM	#12
ittybittyb Junior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Posts: 4	So the deprimer and the sizer is the same die and the bullet seater and the crimper is also the same die??? If this is case then I must not have the dies adjusted properly. I have shot about 300 rounds out of the 45 and none of them have misfired or anything they just jam like all the time...and yes this is my first experience in reloading. Also is it ok to use magnium primers in the .38 sp rounds? Im going to start completely over nd follow the steps you stated, JFN, annd see what I come up with....any more tips that you might have would be great! Thanks for all your help guys! If i have any issues with these next rounds I'l let ya know!

May 2, 2009, 07:32 AM	#13
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	The decapping die designed for a SPECIFIC cartridge is also the sizing die. HOWEVER, there are "universal decapping dies" that are available that will ONLY decap, WITHOUT sizing. It is hard to tell exactly what you are actually using and doing by reading what you write here. The first question is whether your dies make the case mouth tight around the bullet. IF so, and I guess it is since you have shot some of your .45s without pressure problems, then the issues about getting the brass to fit the chambers is PROBABLY die adjustment. Are you using carbide dies? How far down are they adjusted (e.g., just touching the shellholder when the ram is raised, not touching, or turned in some fraction of a turn beyond where it touches)? SL1