January 9, 2009, 02:23 PM | #26 |
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I think it may be open to interpretation, but for me the main statment or thought is "There's no way the mass murder that took place in Mumbai a few weeks ago could have happened if the average Indian citizen carried a weapon." This leads to concepts like "Then that backpack would have had Sarin, or C-4, etc, etc. The tool doesn't matter" or "Right, had the average citizen of Mumbai been armed, the terrorists would have used other means. Determined terrorists will attack.", etc. that show there is a way.
I think there may be a disconnect between "stopping a terrorist" and "stopping terrorist scenarios." Shooting a terrorist because he is doing something, almost by definition, means that he has already started his terrorist scenario. IMO, hard to say a terrorist scenario was stopped if there are a dozen people already dead/injured from the attack. Last edited by David Armstrong; January 9, 2009 at 02:36 PM. |
January 9, 2009, 02:33 PM | #27 | |||
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January 9, 2009, 02:37 PM | #28 | |||
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The United States has defined terrorism under the Federal Criminal Code. Chapter 113B of Part I of Title 18 of the United States Code defines terrorism and lists the crimes associated with terrorism.[24] In Section 2331 of Chapter 113b, terrorism is defined as: Quote:
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January 9, 2009, 02:41 PM | #29 | |
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January 9, 2009, 04:53 PM | #30 | ||||||
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From OP: Quote:
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January 9, 2009, 05:35 PM | #31 | |
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January 9, 2009, 05:45 PM | #32 |
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David ~
If you're not trying to stir the pot, you need to go back and read more carefully, please. If you are trying to stir the pot, knock it off. The subject is provocative enough without deliberate equivocation to muddy the waters. pax |
January 9, 2009, 05:48 PM | #33 | |||||
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January 9, 2009, 05:54 PM | #34 | |
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We may be talking past each other, it may be semantics, but I really don't understand why some are arguing over this. As I pointed out earlier, eric, slopemeno, troy mclure, carguy2244, mannlicher, ramius, and some others have all basically posted along the same lines, so I'm assuming they understood the issue. Last edited by David Armstrong; January 9, 2009 at 06:00 PM. |
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January 9, 2009, 06:10 PM | #35 | ||||||||
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I now understand part of your argument. You are saying that stopping single terrorist attacks does not stop terrorism in general. This, IMHO, is irrelevant since the OP is concerned with preparing for a single attack. I don't know a single ordinary citizen who needs to prepare for every attack, just the one (or a few if they are unlucky) that happens to him. The OP was about armed citizens stopping individual terrorist attacks, not government agencies stopping terrorism in general. I'm still confused about this, though: Quote:
David, I think you need to calm down. No one is attacking you.
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January 9, 2009, 08:16 PM | #36 | ||||||
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"carrying guns" and CCW is splitting hairs, given the strong push for open carry in many states. Quote:
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January 9, 2009, 09:24 PM | #37 | |
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Double Naught Spy,
There's no point in debating the semantics of the phrase "terrorist act", or how much ground its umbrella covers. I'm familiar with what it is and what it isn't. The Wiki version is nice, but there's more to it than that. This is your quote: Quote:
But since you read my post so carefully before pulling the trigger, you surely noticed that I didn't equate the typical motivation(s) of the different groups in the first place, but simply pointed out that their methods were similar in some ways. Go sharpshoot somewhere else. |
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January 9, 2009, 09:39 PM | #38 |
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Terrorist Acts/Mass Killings:
How do you prevent them? By having good intel and acting on that intel. Having intel can mean "seeing and noting the warning signs and then acting on that information"...whether it's a terrorist cell planning and preparing for an attack or a couple of kids with emotional problems who show the intent to act on their feelings. How do you stop or impede an attack, regardless of the motivation of the attacker(s)? By having the capability and being in place to use that capability. Since the Israelis keep being brought up, let's use them as an example. The civilian population is generally armed...not all, but to a much higher percentage than Concealed Handgun Permit holders in the States. And not just limited to handguns. Long guns are common. Why do you suppose this is? Because acts of terrorism have happened frequently in many parts of the country (less so since the wall went up...but it could flare up at any time) and the people need the ability and the means to stop an act that is occuring. The original poster has a valid question. |
January 9, 2009, 11:32 PM | #39 | |
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And, semantics are critical. Calling all mass shootings and such terrorist acts is a sensationalization that adds attributes to the events that are not present. This is something we like to harp on the media for doing whenever they make more of a shooting than exists or imbue attributes to the shooting that were not present, such as the association of guns with being bad or evil.
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January 10, 2009, 11:09 AM | #40 |
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The school shooters usually show a pattern of feeling on the outs in their school and many times have suffered from bullying, esp. homophobic taunting. Thus, they have a revenge motivation and part of that is to show the taunters that they can't get away with it. But that isn't to influence a major societal institution so it changes policies as directly as most acknowledged terrorist acts.
Also, the school shooters usually show some history of psychopathology. Despite some rhetoric most organized terrorists don't have such histories.
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January 10, 2009, 11:54 AM | #41 |
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Listen, I get it. I know the difference. The point I was making is that sharpshooting my original post (which specifically said there was a difference in motivation but not necessarily in how they're carried out) by using a cut-and-paste "definition" (of which there are over 100...all of them fairly loose) was ridiculous. Many different scenarios and some incidents that have already happened could be made to fit under one of the 100's of definitions of terrorism.
None of which is the purpose of the thread, so I won't further hijack the thread by debating this point. |
January 10, 2009, 01:00 PM | #42 | |||||||||
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Do you believe that a terrorist who is commencing an attack should be attacked? If yes, then we are in complete agreement, since I have never said anywhere in this thread that an armed populous will end terrorism (see in this post where I say what I mean by "stopped"). If no, then we are not in agreement. From the OP: Quote:
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January 10, 2009, 01:21 PM | #43 | |||||
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January 11, 2009, 09:10 PM | #44 | |||||||||
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January 11, 2009, 10:47 PM | #45 | |||||||
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It is obvious that you are now just trying to bait me into an argument by sniping at me, and I'm actually trying to avoid it. If you have a legitimate question I'll be quite happy to answer it, but if all you want are more "clarifications" of things that have already been clarified, or if you just want to engage in more armchair psychology about what I feel, I see no need to continue this. Last edited by David Armstrong; January 11, 2009 at 10:52 PM. |
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January 11, 2009, 11:55 PM | #46 | |||
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January 12, 2009, 12:15 AM | #47 | |
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January 12, 2009, 12:26 AM | #48 | |||
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It a terrorist attack isnt stopped then why dont terrorist just kill millions of people at one time? Quote:
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January 12, 2009, 12:45 AM | #49 | |
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January 12, 2009, 01:00 AM | #50 | ||||||
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According to Dictionary.com, the attacks have stopped. Please stop insisting that the attacks have not stopped. I say they have stopped, you say they were stopped, both are true. Stop implying that only one is true. Do you understand this definition? It is very difficult to have a debate or discussion with someone who will not understand this, despite the numerous times that I have tried to make it clear. I could say that the attacks were stopped (meaning discontinued), and you could say that they were not stopped (meaning prevented) and we would both be correct! When I make posts, and you refuse to rebut them, or answer them, you fail. I am not asking you to answer my questions in a certain way, I just want you to answer them. You do not, thus you fail. It is very hard to argue with someone who only accepts one or two of the definitions of stop, when there are more than FORTY on the URL that I have presented. This shows ignorance and stubbornness. Quote:
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If you notice, I have not cited the parts in your posts where you argue about the things that I declared that I will not argue about or that we agree on .
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