AlaskaMike's Load for 357 mag cast bullet

SL1 · February 29, 2008, 10:05 AM

Mike,

I started a new thread so we don't completely hijack the thread on Lil'Gun powder.

In that thread, you wrote the following about your RCBS 150 gr SWC cast with wheelweight metal and loaded with WW296 powder:

"I've never worried too much about bullet hardness. I cast bullets for all my revolvers and a couple of .30-06 rifles from straight wheel weights. Sometimes I throw in a small amount of tin, but not normally. If I want a hard bullet, such as in the case of my .30 cal bullets, I'll water quench them. I couldn't tell you the BHN for either my air cooled or water quenched bullets, but the water quenched are noticeably harder. I don't worry about water quenching my .357 or .44 Mag bullets, and my favorite .357 load pushes my 150 grain RCBS 38-150-SWC (that's a plain base bullet) to 1400 fps out of my 4" S&W model 28 with very good accuracy.

"[M]y load is 17.3 grains of W296 with CCI magnum primers. I agree with your comments about cast bullets and pressure, although the bullets I use with this load are only air cooled, not water quenched, and they seem to work fine. I also get little to no leading."

[end quote]

Your experience with this load really intersts me because I have all of the ingredients already at-hand.

Your load is completely consistent with one published in the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual, Third Edition. It shows WW296 data for their bullet 358477, an identical looking shape to our RCBS design, cast to 150 grains with lineotype metal. Their maximum load is 17.8 gr, 41,900 CUP, at 1452 fps from a 4" special vented test barrel. Your load of 17.3 grains of WW296 is 3% less powder and produces about 3% less velocity from a similar barrel. From rules-of-thumb relationships to load density and velocity, I would estimate your load produces about 39,000 CUP. So, it is probably over newer SAAMI loads in psi, but is well within the still-current SAAMI loads in CUP.

I had seen this load in the manual for decades, but had assumed it would be inaccurate and lead my bore due to the combination of a plain-base bullet design and a pressure well above the compressive stength of water-quenched wheel weight alloy.

But, your experience says otherwise. So, I am interested in a few more particulars:

First, what lube are you using?

Second, I am assuming that you chronogaphed your loads, rather than calculated the velocity from published load data with rules-of-thumb like I used above. Right? If so, do you still have the velocity variation (extreme spread or standard deviation)?

Third, since you are ALASKA Mike, I wonder in what temperatures you have shot this load. I live in the mid-Atlantic region, so I know my hottest temperatures will exceed those in Alaska. But, temperatures during hunting season here may be close to the maximums in Alaska.

I thank you for sharing your experiences. The published literature and "conventional wisdom" say your results are not supposed to be as good as you have found in practice. But you can't argue with success. So, I want to learn from yours.

SL1

AlaskaMike · October 23, 2008, 05:55 PM

Wow--I have to apologize. I didn't see this thread until now, a full 8 months after you posted it! Hopefully my reply will still be relevant.

The lube I'm using at the moment is Carnauba Red from White Label Lube ( http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/ ), but I've also used Speed Green from Dan at the Bull Shop ( http://bullshop.gunloads.com/ ) with equally good results. The Carnauba Red is cheaper, but requires heat to flow well. I've been thinking about trying White Label Lube's BAC, which is similar to his Carnauba Red but requires no heat.

I do use a chronograph, and unfortunately I didn't record the ES. However, I see in my notes that the SD is 16.

I didn't note the temperature when I chronographed that load, but I'm guessing it was anywhere from the mid 50's to the 60's, farenheit.

Again, I apologize for not noticing this one until now.

Mike

February 29, 2008, 10:05 AM	#1
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	AlaskaMike's Load for 357 mag cast bullet Mike, I started a new thread so we don't completely hijack the thread on Lil'Gun powder. In that thread, you wrote the following about your RCBS 150 gr SWC cast with wheelweight metal and loaded with WW296 powder: "I've never worried too much about bullet hardness. I cast bullets for all my revolvers and a couple of .30-06 rifles from straight wheel weights. Sometimes I throw in a small amount of tin, but not normally. If I want a hard bullet, such as in the case of my .30 cal bullets, I'll water quench them. I couldn't tell you the BHN for either my air cooled or water quenched bullets, but the water quenched are noticeably harder. I don't worry about water quenching my .357 or .44 Mag bullets, and my favorite .357 load pushes my 150 grain RCBS 38-150-SWC (that's a plain base bullet) to 1400 fps out of my 4" S&W model 28 with very good accuracy. "[M]y load is 17.3 grains of W296 with CCI magnum primers. I agree with your comments about cast bullets and pressure, although the bullets I use with this load are only air cooled, not water quenched, and they seem to work fine. I also get little to no leading." [end quote] Your experience with this load really intersts me because I have all of the ingredients already at-hand. Your load is completely consistent with one published in the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual, Third Edition. It shows WW296 data for their bullet 358477, an identical looking shape to our RCBS design, cast to 150 grains with lineotype metal. Their maximum load is 17.8 gr, 41,900 CUP, at 1452 fps from a 4" special vented test barrel. Your load of 17.3 grains of WW296 is 3% less powder and produces about 3% less velocity from a similar barrel. From rules-of-thumb relationships to load density and velocity, I would estimate your load produces about 39,000 CUP. So, it is probably over newer SAAMI loads in psi, but is well within the still-current SAAMI loads in CUP. I had seen this load in the manual for decades, but had assumed it would be inaccurate and lead my bore due to the combination of a plain-base bullet design and a pressure well above the compressive stength of water-quenched wheel weight alloy. But, your experience says otherwise. So, I am interested in a few more particulars: First, what lube are you using? Second, I am assuming that you chronogaphed your loads, rather than calculated the velocity from published load data with rules-of-thumb like I used above. Right? If so, do you still have the velocity variation (extreme spread or standard deviation)? Third, since you are ALASKA Mike, I wonder in what temperatures you have shot this load. I live in the mid-Atlantic region, so I know my hottest temperatures will exceed those in Alaska. But, temperatures during hunting season here may be close to the maximums in Alaska. I thank you for sharing your experiences. The published literature and "conventional wisdom" say your results are not supposed to be as good as you have found in practice. But you can't argue with success. So, I want to learn from yours. SL1

October 23, 2008, 05:55 PM	#2
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	Wow--I have to apologize. I didn't see this thread until now, a full 8 months after you posted it! Hopefully my reply will still be relevant. The lube I'm using at the moment is Carnauba Red from White Label Lube ( http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/ ), but I've also used Speed Green from Dan at the Bull Shop ( http://bullshop.gunloads.com/ ) with equally good results. The Carnauba Red is cheaper, but requires heat to flow well. I've been thinking about trying White Label Lube's BAC, which is similar to his Carnauba Red but requires no heat. I do use a chronograph, and unfortunately I didn't record the ES. However, I see in my notes that the SD is 16. I didn't note the temperature when I chronographed that load, but I'm guessing it was anywhere from the mid 50's to the 60's, farenheit. Again, I apologize for not noticing this one until now. Mike