DC firearms dealer question

wayneinFL · August 11, 2012, 08:17 PM

I'm aware there aren't any licensed dealers in the District of Columbia, but assuming someone could fight city hall and make it happen, it would not be located in any state.

"Interstate", by definition, is between two or more states. The DC is not a state. It's not importation or exportation, either- it's still in the same country. Selling a firearm to someone in a state would not be interstate commerce. Does this mean that they could sell handguns to someone from any state?

sigcurious · August 11, 2012, 08:42 PM

From 18 USC 922

It is unlawful...
"for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport
into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person
is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it
maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise
obtained by such person outside that State"
Bold added for emphasis.

Assuming for a moment, that for those purposes the Fed wouldn't just treat DC as a state. The law as written(the language is similar in the other portions) it would not matter, you would still be bringing something in from another place other than your home state.

Fishing_Cabin · August 11, 2012, 09:46 PM

wayneinFL,

Quote:

I'm aware there aren't any licensed dealers in the District of Columbia

Last I heard Charles Sykes was the one and only FFL inside Washington DC. I may be wrong, but he is the one and only FFL inside of DC

**Tom Servo** · August 11, 2012, 10:38 PM

I am not kidding here. The Violence Policy Center has an FFL here:

1730 Rhode Island Avenue NW #1014
Washington, DC 20036

Their number is 1-54-000-01-8C-00725, and it checks out as being valid through 2014. Seriously, give them a call. If they're not in the business of dealing in firearms, the ATF might like to have confirmation.

Al Norris · August 12, 2012, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Room 1140 on the DMV hallway is marked with a small sign “CS Exchange” and a taped-up paper that warns away anyone who might be looking to fight parking ticket. Behind the nondescript brown door is the private office of Washington D.C.’s only legal gun broker: Charles Sykes.

The opening paragraph from an article by Emily Miller: MILLER: D.C.’s only gun source

This was the fourth article in the series, "Emily Gets Her Gun," which was the subject of this thread: Washington Times Editor Attempts to Navigate D. C. Gun Laws

wayneinFL · August 12, 2012, 01:30 PM

Quote:

I am not kidding here. The Violence Policy Center has an FFL here:

1730 Rhode Island Avenue NW #1014
Washington, DC 20036

Their number is 1-54-000-01-8C-00725, and it checks out as being valid through 2014. Seriously, give them a call. If they're not in the business of dealing in firearms, the ATF might like to have confirmation.

Thanks! I will do that first thing Monday morning.

sigcurious · August 12, 2012, 01:39 PM

I am very curious as to why they would have an FFL anyway. Good catch on the info Tom.

**Spats McGee** · August 13, 2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

I am not kidding here. The Violence Policy Center has an FFL here:

1730 Rhode Island Avenue NW #1014
Washington, DC 20036

Their number is 1-54-000-01-8C-00725, and it checks out as being valid through 2014. Seriously, give them a call. If they're not in the business of dealing in firearms, the ATF might like to have confirmation.

I have to admit that I am also thoroughly puzzled as to why the VPC has an FFL . . . anywhere.

Mr. James · August 13, 2012, 12:26 PM

Mr. Sykes will ding you $125 for doing the transfer. Ain't monopoly grand? He works out of a Metropolitan Police Department station, since the D.C. Council wouldn't deign to allow a store-front operation in the District.

Intriguing that the VPC would have an FFL! To what end, one wonders.

**Tom Servo** · August 13, 2012, 12:32 PM

Quote:

I have to admit that I am also thoroughly puzzled as to why the VPC has an FFL . . . anywhere.

You're not alone in that. I became aware of it in 2008, and I contacted the BATFE. They acknowledged that it was valid, and that the records hadn't been audited since 2002. When I asked if they were in the business of dealing in firearms, I was forwarded to someone who dodged my calls.

At the time, the phones at the VPC office were not operational.

**Spats McGee** · August 13, 2012, 12:50 PM

I wonder if there is some limit to the number of FFLs that can (or will) be issued for DC addresses. This situation reminds me of a certain Arkansas county. In Arkansas there are a finite number of liquor licenses to be issued, and they are allocated by county. In this one particular county, there are something like 8 licenses (if I remember correctly), and the Baptist church owns about 6 of them. It's also trying to lay hands on the last two, so that it can make the county a de facto dry county.

If there is such a restriction on FFLs, I can see an anti-gun organization using the same tactic.

**Tom Servo** · August 13, 2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

I wonder if there is some limit to the number of FFLs that can (or will) be issued for DC addresses.

They make it nearly impossible to get one. Here's the law in question.

Furthermore, I've heard that the District has a policy of not allowing zoning to a business for the purpose of dealing in firearms. In fact, the address listed on the VPC's FFL is zoned for “residential/limited non-profit,” with no mention of a retail or business license.

Mr. James · August 13, 2012, 03:21 PM

Hence, Mr. Sykes doing business out of an office at MPD Headquarters!

Willie Sutton · August 13, 2012, 06:20 PM

Furthermore, I've heard that the District has a policy of not allowing zoning to a business for the purpose of dealing in firearms. In fact, the address listed on the VPC's FFL is zoned for “residential/limited non-profit,” with no mention of a retail or business license.

One would think that a formal letter to the BATFE setting forth the facts of their location not being zoned for business, along with noting that it does not appear that they actually conduct business as a FFL would cause some interest, hopefully sufficient to force a revocation of their FFL. Laws ought to be applied evenly. None of the "unwashed" could get a FFL without zoning and business license requirements being met, or having business hours stated for the conduct of the business that the license was issued to allow.

Willie

.

**Tom Servo** · August 13, 2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

One would think that a formal letter to the BATFE (...) would cause some interest

Actually, this was tried when it became public knowledge in 2008. Nothing came of it.

Maybe it's time to give it another go. You actually want to talk to the Virginia field office, as the FFL was issued from there (hence the 154 prefix).

Willie Sutton · August 14, 2012, 11:37 AM

Seems like the BATFE is opening themselves up to a problem regarding equal protection, should they not issue licenses to other applicants who do not have correct zoning and who do not engage in the business.

Willie

.

Fishing_Cabin · August 14, 2012, 12:51 PM

While I am not in agreement with the VPC, nor do I support they having a FFL since they are outspoken against firearm ownership, they do mention having an FFL on their website, with their reasoning behind it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VPC website link below

The Violence Policy Center surveyed six major firearm distributors to ascertain which firearm manufacturers were complying with the agreement. The VPC holds a Federal Firearms License (FFL); many distributors require an FFL before they will discuss their products.

Link: http://www.vpc.org/studies/brokasse.htm

One may be curious though if the VPC is held in such scrutiny as a normal person applying for or renewing an FFL.

As to being in the business of dealing in firearms requirement. I guess it could be argued either way, but the number of firearm transfers would be interesting to know, since the ATF requires some level of activity (transfers) for renewel. Also interesting to know would be if/how they are complying with zoning and other local regulations.

sigcurious · August 14, 2012, 01:06 PM

How often do FFLs need to be renewed?

dogtown tom · August 14, 2012, 06:05 PM

I heard several years ago that the VPC was issued an 01FFL for "research" purposes.

Note that ATF has issued 01FFL's to gun writers and others in the firearm industry that are not actually dealers.

Eghad · August 14, 2012, 06:54 PM

D.C. has pretty much made it very difficult to own a handgun. They have added everything they can do to delay getting a handgun that is probably a gnats hair away from not complying with the Supreme Court Decision. They said in their decision that states can regulate firearm sales. So D.C laws give the appearance of complying with the Supreme Court while making it a drawn out process that is designed to discourage you from having one so they don't wind up back in court.

**Tom Servo** · August 14, 2012, 06:59 PM

Quote:

I heard several years ago that the VPC was issued an 01FFL for "research" purposes.

Yeah, but the ATF keeps renewing it every three years.

August 11, 2012, 10:38 PM	#4
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	I am not kidding here. The Violence Policy Center has an FFL here: 1730 Rhode Island Avenue NW #1014 Washington, DC 20036 Their number is 1-54-000-01-8C-00725, and it checks out as being valid through 2014. Seriously, give them a call. If they're not in the business of dealing in firearms, the ATF might like to have confirmation. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

August 13, 2012, 12:26 PM	#9
Mr. James Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2001 Location: The Old Dominion Posts: 1,521	Mr. Sykes will ding you $125 for doing the transfer. Ain't monopoly grand? He works out of a Metropolitan Police Department station, since the D.C. Council wouldn't deign to allow a store-front operation in the District. Intriguing that the VPC would have an FFL! To what end, one wonders. __________________ "...A humble and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Ps. li "When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." —Frederic Bastiat

August 13, 2012, 12:50 PM	#11
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	Re: The VPC's FFL I wonder if there is some limit to the number of FFLs that can (or will) be issued for DC addresses. This situation reminds me of a certain Arkansas county. In Arkansas there are a finite number of liquor licenses to be issued, and they are allocated by county. In this one particular county, there are something like 8 licenses (if I remember correctly), and the Baptist church owns about 6 of them. It's also trying to lay hands on the last two, so that it can make the county a de facto dry county. If there is such a restriction on FFLs, I can see an anti-gun organization using the same tactic. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

August 13, 2012, 03:21 PM	#13
Mr. James Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2001 Location: The Old Dominion Posts: 1,521	Hence, Mr. Sykes doing business out of an office at MPD Headquarters! __________________ "...A humble and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Ps. li "When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." —Frederic Bastiat

August 14, 2012, 06:05 PM	#19
dogtown tom Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2006 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 3,073	I heard several years ago that the VPC was issued an 01FFL for "research" purposes. Note that ATF has issued 01FFL's to gun writers and others in the firearm industry that are not actually dealers. __________________ Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

August 11, 2012, 08:17 PM	#1
wayneinFL Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2004 Posts: 1,944	DC firearms dealer question I'm aware there aren't any licensed dealers in the District of Columbia, but assuming someone could fight city hall and make it happen, it would not be located in any state. "Interstate", by definition, is between two or more states. The DC is not a state. It's not importation or exportation, either- it's still in the same country. Selling a firearm to someone in a state would not be interstate commerce. Does this mean that they could sell handguns to someone from any state?

August 11, 2012, 08:42 PM	#2
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	From 18 USC 922 It is unlawful... "for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State" Bold added for emphasis. Assuming for a moment, that for those purposes the Fed wouldn't just treat DC as a state. The law as written(the language is similar in the other portions) it would not matter, you would still be bringing something in from another place other than your home state.

August 12, 2012, 01:39 PM	#7
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	I am very curious as to why they would have an FFL anyway. Good catch on the info Tom.

August 13, 2012, 06:20 PM	#14
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	Furthermore, I've heard that the District has a policy of not allowing zoning to a business for the purpose of dealing in firearms. In fact, the address listed on the VPC's FFL is zoned for “residential/limited non-profit,” with no mention of a retail or business license. One would think that a formal letter to the BATFE setting forth the facts of their location not being zoned for business, along with noting that it does not appear that they actually conduct business as a FFL would cause some interest, hopefully sufficient to force a revocation of their FFL. Laws ought to be applied evenly. None of the "unwashed" could get a FFL without zoning and business license requirements being met, or having business hours stated for the conduct of the business that the license was issued to allow. Willie .

August 14, 2012, 11:37 AM	#16
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	Seems like the BATFE is opening themselves up to a problem regarding equal protection, should they not issue licenses to other applicants who do not have correct zoning and who do not engage in the business. Willie .

August 14, 2012, 01:06 PM	#18
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	How often do FFLs need to be renewed?

August 14, 2012, 06:54 PM	#20
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	D.C. has pretty much made it very difficult to own a handgun. They have added everything they can do to delay getting a handgun that is probably a gnats hair away from not complying with the Supreme Court Decision. They said in their decision that states can regulate firearm sales. So D.C laws give the appearance of complying with the Supreme Court while making it a drawn out process that is designed to discourage you from having one so they don't wind up back in court. __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member