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Old October 1, 2009, 11:39 PM   #1
nmshooter
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Used M&P sold to me as new...

I bought a new M&P .45c about two weeks ago and I was looking through the box today and found a receipt. The receipt was for 8/19/09 and it was for the sale of an M&P 45c, and the serial number matched the one I just purchased. The gun looks brand new but I still don't feel like this is a legal business transaction. I really don't think firearms can be returned even if the haven't been fired. Would you guys do anything about this?
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Old October 1, 2009, 11:56 PM   #2
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Unfired is unfired is new as is new I believe...

Previously owned goods are still used goods, but if it's never been shot, it's still new isn't it?
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Old October 2, 2009, 12:01 AM   #3
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I would not consider it new. What if the previous owner dropped it? I just dont think I should pay the same price for a new firearm as one that has a previous owner.
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Old October 2, 2009, 12:05 AM   #4
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Take it back to the place where you bought it and tell them what happened and tell them that since you paid for a new firearm that they need to provide you with one. That would probably be the simplest course of action.

If you go back, tell them you want to keep the gun you have but try to get a discount it's going to be more complicated.
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Old October 2, 2009, 01:20 AM   #5
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New in terms of firearms a firearm that has never been previously owned.

Rather than sell it as 'new' the dealer should have said 'I have one that a customer purchased by mistake and we exchanged, and which I believe is unfired, I can let you have it for.....'
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Old October 2, 2009, 08:48 AM   #6
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Your dealer owes you some money and an explanation. If he gives you a hard time, you could let him know that your next call will be to the local BATF office so that they can review his books for new and used firearms sales. He will probably turn a few shades of grey and happily give a seizable refund.
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Old October 2, 2009, 08:49 AM   #7
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It may have been bought but the deal fell through and the dealer resold it. Did you buy from a dealer or an individual????
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Old October 2, 2009, 09:10 AM   #8
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While S&W would probably honor warranty work, they would not be obligated as you are not the original owner. The gun is not new.
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Old October 2, 2009, 09:34 AM   #9
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A serious chat with the owner/manager should yield satusfactory results.

A gun sold new foes out the door & turns around comes back in the door to be returned. Guy gets a refund or store credit. The gun is looked over. Put out on display for sale as Like New in Box. The price is normally discounted some. If NIB is $500 maybe LNIB is around $475.

I believe it is a violation of BATF regs to sell this gun as new. As its clearly been on the dealers bools as having been sold once.
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Old October 2, 2009, 09:53 AM   #10
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Yeah, I gotta rethink my thoughts on this now. I seen a NEW piece yesterday with a Hefty price tag on it and right next to it was a USED but never fired gun of the same type that was $150 less than the new one!

You should definitely get some $ back! Or a full refund with the chance to buy something else...
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Old October 2, 2009, 10:01 AM   #11
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It's possible they wrote out the receipt while waiting for the background check, and NICS or whoever does handguns in your state came back with a "denied", or a "delayed" and the person never came back.
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Old October 2, 2009, 10:31 AM   #12
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If it were me and if the gun didn't have any marks on it and the magazines didn't have powder residue on the followers, I would just keep the gun and be happy with it. The receipt you found less than two months old; that's new enough for me to not make a stink about it.

I may be hesitant to buy from the fellow again, though.
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Old October 2, 2009, 02:17 PM   #13
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This thread is less about the firearm and more about the seller. I would certainly approach them about the issue and let them make you happy.
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Old October 2, 2009, 02:35 PM   #14
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As was already stated... I'm sure the gun is in fine condition, but I would do have a talk with the owner/manager to let them know what you found and show them... see what they say...

Don't be rude but saying something along the lines of, "I don't know what the BATF regulations are on this... but I wanted to come and talk to you before I found out.." and give them the chance to make it right.


It very could be an honest mistake... I don't buy that it was waiting for the background check because you don't do the receipt and paperwork until it's all been approved.

So go have a civil conversation and update us on the progress... if you don't want it... I'm in the market for an M&P45c
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Old October 2, 2009, 02:54 PM   #15
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Another thought (without knowing exactly what the receipt says), if you bought it two weeks ago, it would have been just over 30 days from the date on the receipt. Perhaps the shop, like many, offers a 30 day layaway and the original person never followed through.

Of course, the only way to really know what happened is to ask.
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Old October 2, 2009, 03:46 PM   #16
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EVERY gunshop I have bought and sold at consider a UNFIRED preowned gun USED!
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Old October 2, 2009, 05:32 PM   #17
nmshooter
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Thank you guys for all of your opinions and suggestions. I talked to the store today and the owner was not going to be in until next week, so I was told to bring it in then. There is a stamp of the shop name at the bottom of the receipt, which I believe usually means it has been paid for. The receipt looks something like this

qty description amount
1 sale S&W M&P 45
SN DSNXXX xxxxxx
+ tax xx
less trade in -xxx
Colt Govenment 380
SN XXXXXXXX

total xxx
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Old October 2, 2009, 06:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Thank you guys for all of your opinions and suggestions. I talked to the store today and the owner was not going to be in until next week, so I was told to bring it in then. There is a stamp of the shop name at the bottom of the receipt, which I believe usually means it has been paid for. The receipt looks something like this

qty description amount
1 sale S&W M&P 45
SN DSNXXX xxxxxx
+ tax xx
less trade in -xxx
Colt Govenment 380
SN XXXXXXXX

total xxx
Simply compare the receipt you found to your receipt- its from the same shop. If it bears the same stamp as your receipt, then yes, I think you're right
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Old October 2, 2009, 06:17 PM   #19
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Wait a minute. You're telling me that the BATF can dictate whether an FFL sells a gun as new or used? And they can penalize them for this? It may be dishonest, it may be unseemly but I can't believe it is illegal. There isn't even a space in the book to indicate that it is new or used, is there?
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Old October 2, 2009, 07:09 PM   #20
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Go to the store that you bought it from and tell them they owe you ammo, magazines, or a holster.
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Old October 2, 2009, 07:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Wait a minute. You're telling me that the BATF can dictate whether an FFL sells a gun as new or used? And they can penalize them for this? It may be dishonest, it may be unseemly but I can't believe it is illegal. There isn't even a space in the book to indicate that it is new or used, is there
no they can't to many people don't understand what BATF actually enforces.
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Old October 2, 2009, 09:20 PM   #22
tjhands
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Go to the store that you bought it from and tell them they owe you ammo, magazines, or a holster.
Oh, come on. If you wanna get down to brass tacks, he should have checked out the box 110% before buying the gun. If something shows up later that is insignificant, as I think this is, it should be treated as such.

Let this thing go. You thought you were buying a new gun and it sounds as though you got one. Just let it go. Sheesh.
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Old October 2, 2009, 09:51 PM   #23
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What about the warranty registration card? Was it in the box? If not, the previous "owner" probably sent it in. S&W thinks someone else owns the gun and you have no warranty.
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Old October 2, 2009, 10:19 PM   #24
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I think that if you talk to the owner and "negotiate", go for case or goods, but don't ask for a new pistol. If you request a new one, it'll be another NICS and 4473. Not that you couldn't/wouldn't pass, but really... want to do another for something that isn't your fault?

Try and get something for your inconvenience. Play it cool.
Quote:
Just let it go. Sheesh.
Don't agree, at all. This gun was in someone else's possession. That's as clean and simple as it needs to be for your opinion to not matter and HIS opinion to be the only one that matters. HE'S the one who bought it as new.

If he doesn't feel wronged or mistreated... then yeah, let it go.
If he doesn't, sure sounds like a valid complaint.
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Old October 2, 2009, 10:29 PM   #25
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You're welcome to do as you choose, but I think it's worth it for me to reiterate that your best option for satisfaction is to tell them you want a new firearm since that's what you paid for. They really don't have a leg to stand on since that's a very clear position and there is really no wiggle room for them.

ON THE OTHER HAND, if you go in there demanding cash, accessories, etc. then it's going to be a lot less clear.

They don't owe you cash or accessories that you didn't pay for, they owe you a new gun which you did pay for.

If you tacitly admit that you're satisfied with the gun (by saying you'll keep it) but then still try to squeeze them for money, etc. then there's a lot more potential for a disagreement to develop and possibly prevent either party involved from being satisfied with the resolution...

ON THE THIRD HAND, if you go in asking for them to provide you with what you paid for (a new gun) and they start making OFFERS of cash or accessories then you're free to accept and you may come out of the deal sitting pretty.

The key is that as long as you simply ask for what you paid for then you are negotiating from a position of power. If you start out by relinquishing that position of power by essentially stating that you intend to keep the gun then it puts you in the position of haggling over the purchase price of something you already own. That's not nearly as good a position to be in.
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