Review of Brethren Armament

Machineguntony · December 11, 2014, 12:29 AM

When I was at the Texas International Gun Festival, I met brothers Quinn and Kyle from Brethren Armament. They were displaying some of their custom built guns and offering some of their guns for test firing. In my review of the TIGF, you can see a pic that has some of the guns from Brethren Armament.

I had been researching and shopping for an H&K expert to build an MP5K PDW from my German H&K SP89. After examining their guns and asking every possible question of Quinn, I agreed to have Brethren Armament complete my conversion.

The gun came back today. If I could chose one word to describe the finished MP5K: beautiful. One of the brothers is an engineer by training, and you can see it in the finished gun's precision, design, and detail. All the fitting is just perfect.

Here is what the H&K SP89 looked like during the conversion, as Brethren Armament refinished the gun.

That became this...

Brethren Armament added my registered machine gun sear to a four position ambidextrous Navy trigger group. The gun is an NFA civilian transferrable machine gun.

The guys at Brethren Arms did an excellent job of fitting the trigger housing and trigger pack to the receiver. There is no movement and the fit is perfect. Brethren Arms did a beautiful job.

Fitting the machine gun sear to the four position trigger pack was a lot more complicated than anyone thought. The guys at Brethren Arms installed a retimed hammer and made it work. The gun runs flawlessly.

Here is a pic of the B&T stock folded. I am not a fan of the Choate stock. The B&T stock looks better and is much sturdier than the Choate stock. The B&T stock is so sturdy and holds in place so well that you would think it was a fixed stock; however, the B&T stock easily folds with a simple push of the button (the button can be seen in the picture as it is the raised half circle, with raised horizontal lines).

Here is a pic of the gun with a mounted 9mm silencer.

Here is the gun with a shorty silencer. From the side, due to the short nature of the MP5K PDW, I think the shorty looks better on the gun.

Here is a pic of the MP5 from the front. Brethren Arms did an awesome job, and the gun is simply beautiful. The gun shoulders perfectly and is easy to handle. I am a lefty, so the ambidextrous Navy trigger pack is pure awesomeness.

Many thanks to Brethren Arms. I am a big fan of their work.

https://brethrenarms.com

The above are my personal pics. Please do not repost them on another website or forum without my permission.

Theohazard · December 11, 2014, 02:24 AM

Tony, that's one of the coolest guns I've seen in a while. Wow. I've always loved the MP5K PDW ever since I first saw one in a gun magazine back in the early 90s. I agree that the Ti-Rant 9S looks perfect on it. Thanks for sharing!

Willie Lowman · December 11, 2014, 10:47 AM

That's dead sexy.

I've fired several MP5 variants but never the K. Let us know how it runs. I know two people with K sear guns and both tell me the K is very picky about ammo.

Nice rug by the way.

P71pilot · December 11, 2014, 11:02 AM

I am very jealous. I wonder how much greenbacks it requires to have something like that built. I would LOVE an mp5 in .40, .45 or 10mm. I guess if I ever win the mega millions I'll have to add a few gun toys to the list after the dodge viper. Boy does it suck being 21 and making 14 an hour roofing.

Machineguntony · December 11, 2014, 05:43 PM

Thanks, gentlemen.

Willie, I fell in love with that rug when I first saw it. When I bought the rug in Turkey, I was told that it was a one of a kind Persian rug. It turns out that another member of this forum has the exact same rug. Lol. So much for one of a kind.

Part of the popularity of the MP5 is that it shoots 9mm. If you start to shoot it in .40, .45, or 10mm, you substantially increase the cost of shooting. Also, you start to increase the recoil. Everybody who I let shoot my MP5A3 comments on the control and low recoil (granted, the A3 is heavier than the K). By shooting a caliber larger than 9mm, you will increase recoil and lose some control, thereby making it less fun. But, if your heart is set on a .40, .45, or 10mm, you should definitely go with your heart.

If you plan on one day making your own German K, you need to buy a SP89 immediately. They're slowly becoming extinct and more expensive every day. Currently, on Gunbroker, an SP89 will run approximately $5000. Converting the SP89 is approximately another $3000. Of course, if your heart doesn't care about authenticity, then you can make a clone K gun for about $2500 total (these calculations are just to make a host, and does not include the cost of the sear).

One can argue that an SP89 that is converted to a K gun is not "authentic", in and of itself, due to the facts that: 1. that the SP89 is not really an original K gun anyways, and merely a conversion; and 2. the finished K gun is not 100% similar to a factory K gun sold by H&K to governments, most notably that the converted K gun is a "clip on" gun, and not a double push pin, like all factory H&K MP5s. So one can reasonably argue that because of factors 1 and 2, one should just buy a clone for 1/3 of the cost.

The counter argument is that the SP89 conversion gets a collector as close as possible to an authentic MP5K. In reality, there are no known factory MP5K factory guns in the registry (there are plenty of rumors, but no confirmed guns), so this argument holds a lot of weight among collectors.

Theo, I just realized a problem. The shorty suppressor isn't full auto rated. What happens if I run it in full auto?

Theohazard · December 11, 2014, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machineguntony

Theo, I just realized a problem. The shorty suppressor isn't full auto rated. What happens if I run it in full auto?

Interesting. The full-size Ti-Rant is full-auto rated, so I figured the shorty "S" model was too. You might want to call AAC and see what they say, but I figure you'll be fine as long as you don't over-do it. And if you do manage to damage it, most likely it will just be baffle damage, and if that happens you should be able to send it in to AAC for baffle replacement (I have no idea how much that costs though; that's another thing you should check with AAC about before you put too many rounds though it on full-auto).

The issue is over-heating and subsequent damage from too much rapid fire. The shorty can is the same design as the full-size that is full-auto rated, except for the fact that it's shorter and has fewer baffles. This tells me that the only real difference is that it heats up more quickly, and therefore there's a lower threshold for baffle damage with sustained full-auto fire.

December 11, 2014, 12:29 AM	#1
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Review of Brethren Armament When I was at the Texas International Gun Festival, I met brothers Quinn and Kyle from Brethren Armament. They were displaying some of their custom built guns and offering some of their guns for test firing. In my review of the TIGF, you can see a pic that has some of the guns from Brethren Armament. I had been researching and shopping for an H&K expert to build an MP5K PDW from my German H&K SP89. After examining their guns and asking every possible question of Quinn, I agreed to have Brethren Armament complete my conversion. The gun came back today. If I could chose one word to describe the finished MP5K: beautiful. One of the brothers is an engineer by training, and you can see it in the finished gun's precision, design, and detail. All the fitting is just perfect. Here is what the H&K SP89 looked like during the conversion, as Brethren Armament refinished the gun. That became this... Brethren Armament added my registered machine gun sear to a four position ambidextrous Navy trigger group. The gun is an NFA civilian transferrable machine gun. The guys at Brethren Arms did an excellent job of fitting the trigger housing and trigger pack to the receiver. There is no movement and the fit is perfect. Brethren Arms did a beautiful job. Fitting the machine gun sear to the four position trigger pack was a lot more complicated than anyone thought. The guys at Brethren Arms installed a retimed hammer and made it work. The gun runs flawlessly. Here is a pic of the B&T stock folded. I am not a fan of the Choate stock. The B&T stock looks better and is much sturdier than the Choate stock. The B&T stock is so sturdy and holds in place so well that you would think it was a fixed stock; however, the B&T stock easily folds with a simple push of the button (the button can be seen in the picture as it is the raised half circle, with raised horizontal lines). Here is a pic of the gun with a mounted 9mm silencer. Here is the gun with a shorty silencer. From the side, due to the short nature of the MP5K PDW, I think the shorty looks better on the gun. Here is a pic of the MP5 from the front. Brethren Arms did an awesome job, and the gun is simply beautiful. The gun shoulders perfectly and is easy to handle. I am a lefty, so the ambidextrous Navy trigger pack is pure awesomeness. Many thanks to Brethren Arms. I am a big fan of their work. https://brethrenarms.com The above are my personal pics. Please do not repost them on another website or forum without my permission. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

December 11, 2014, 02:24 AM	#2
Theohazard Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,829	Tony, that's one of the coolest guns I've seen in a while. Wow. I've always loved the MP5K PDW ever since I first saw one in a gun magazine back in the early 90s. I agree that the Ti-Rant 9S looks perfect on it. Thanks for sharing! __________________ 0331: "Accuracy by volume." Last edited by Theohazard; December 11, 2014 at 02:31 AM.

December 11, 2014, 10:47 AM	#3
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	That's dead sexy. I've fired several MP5 variants but never the K. Let us know how it runs. I know two people with K sear guns and both tell me the K is very picky about ammo. Nice rug by the way. __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens Last edited by Willie Lowman; December 11, 2014 at 11:00 AM.

December 11, 2014, 05:43 PM	#5
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Thanks, gentlemen. Willie, I fell in love with that rug when I first saw it. When I bought the rug in Turkey, I was told that it was a one of a kind Persian rug. It turns out that another member of this forum has the exact same rug. Lol. So much for one of a kind. Part of the popularity of the MP5 is that it shoots 9mm. If you start to shoot it in .40, .45, or 10mm, you substantially increase the cost of shooting. Also, you start to increase the recoil. Everybody who I let shoot my MP5A3 comments on the control and low recoil (granted, the A3 is heavier than the K). By shooting a caliber larger than 9mm, you will increase recoil and lose some control, thereby making it less fun. But, if your heart is set on a .40, .45, or 10mm, you should definitely go with your heart. If you plan on one day making your own German K, you need to buy a SP89 immediately. They're slowly becoming extinct and more expensive every day. Currently, on Gunbroker, an SP89 will run approximately $5000. Converting the SP89 is approximately another $3000. Of course, if your heart doesn't care about authenticity, then you can make a clone K gun for about $2500 total (these calculations are just to make a host, and does not include the cost of the sear). One can argue that an SP89 that is converted to a K gun is not "authentic", in and of itself, due to the facts that: 1. that the SP89 is not really an original K gun anyways, and merely a conversion; and 2. the finished K gun is not 100% similar to a factory K gun sold by H&K to governments, most notably that the converted K gun is a "clip on" gun, and not a double push pin, like all factory H&K MP5s. So one can reasonably argue that because of factors 1 and 2, one should just buy a clone for 1/3 of the cost. The counter argument is that the SP89 conversion gets a collector as close as possible to an authentic MP5K. In reality, there are no known factory MP5K factory guns in the registry (there are plenty of rumors, but no confirmed guns), so this argument holds a lot of weight among collectors. Theo, I just realized a problem. The shorty suppressor isn't full auto rated. What happens if I run it in full auto? __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

December 11, 2014, 11:02 AM	#4
P71pilot Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2014 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 728	I am very jealous. I wonder how much greenbacks it requires to have something like that built. I would LOVE an mp5 in .40, .45 or 10mm. I guess if I ever win the mega millions I'll have to add a few gun toys to the list after the dodge viper. Boy does it suck being 21 and making 14 an hour roofing.