New to bolt action distance shooting so I have a few questions.

[JustSgtPat]

I live in NW IN and am interested in getting into target shooting. Being our winters are hell at times I have found a lot of 22 events at 50 ft. When it's cold and out to 100 yards in the summer. While I will try those also I am more drawn to distance shooting. I love being outdoors and remember and miss range day in the Army.

So first question is can anyone direct me to where I can find an "league" that might shoot bi weekly or regularly on the weekends? I am thinking in the 500m area would be good.

Second is an equipment question. I am loving everything I have read about the HOWA HKF93127KTF+ 308 4-16X44 TYPHON. So my questions are is a 308 the best round for this type of shooting? I am not into reloading so I am thinking a 308 is easy to find and big enough to handle the distance. I considered it in 223 because I also have an AR 15 but worry about the distance. At some point I could see wanting to go beyond 500m and I'm sure a 223 would not be the best option there. I also love the full dip camo on this rifle, it just looks tough!! But I worry about it getting beat up and exposing what's under it to wear long term. And it's black... I remember how hot everything got at the range that was black. Is that a concern with a civilian rifle like this?

Thanks for your 2 cents ahead of time.

[joe sixgun]

Not familiar with that particular model rifle but Howa puts out a very good product. 308 Win. Has been doing the job at that range for many years but any second now someone will try to steer you to the new cartridge of the week.

[overthere]

JustSgtPat, it sounds like NRA high Power competitions would be right up your alley, either Service Rifle or F-Class (F-TR).

Service Rifle competitions often follow the 'across the course' format which is shot as a combined competition at 200 yards (standing slow fire, sitting rapid fire), 300 yards (prone rapid fire) and 600 yards (prone slow fire).

Service Rifle is commonly shot using AR-15 rifles and iron sights though recently optics of 1-4.5x magnifications were allowed.

F-Class is shot at mid-range distances (commonly 300 and 600 yards) and long-range (1000 yards). F-Class is further broken down into F-Open (any caliber, heavy front-rests) and F-TR (only 223 or 308 and only bipod). All F-Class is shot prone, slow fire, loaded one shot at a time. This is with optics, no limitations on magnification. For mid-range, the 16x scope should be fine to start out.

If you want to shoot a 308 using factory ammo, mid-range F-TR would be a good choice. Most competitors load their own ammunition but if you are going to shoot factory ammo, mid-range (300 yards and 600 yards) F-TR competitions would be a good fit.

Not familiar with what is available in terms of f-class competitions in NW Indiana but if there are ranges arranging competitions close to you I would recommend trying it out.

[DoctorXring]

If I had to pick 1 cartridge for shooting targets, especially long range, it
would be a 6.5 Creedmoor. Or one of the other 6.5 cases of similar
size. 6.5x55 or 260 Remington. Another excellent choice is a 243 Win,
especially with a 1:8 twist for the 107 Sierra MatchKing.

All of these cartridges are mild in recoil and excellent wind buckers.

If you like the AR type configuration, one rifle I would take a very hard look at is the Ruger Precision Rifle. Out of the box these rifles are just
plain awesome long range rifles.

[ndking1126]

My dad is just getting into long range and I recommended he get a 308 because of availability of accurate match ammo. Ballistically it's not as good as some others but it's still very competitive and will get the job done if you do your part.

My rifle is a 260 Rem. I just bought 142 Federal Premium SMK off the shelf for $30 so it's not terrible. My reloading gear is temporarily packed away. I also would like a 243 shooting 105+ grain bullets, but reloading would be a requirement for that. I'm all about shooting low-recoil rounds, haha!

[Dufus]

The 308Win is an excellent long range cartridge with the right bullets.

Another one that is showing excellence is the 6.5-284.

Check out some of the articles here.

http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

Check out the cartridge guide section for in depth information.

[Mobuck]

I suggest keeping things as simple as possible at the start.
Go with a HOWA or Savage 24-26" heavy barrel .308 with a laminated stock if you can find a factory set-up or a drop in from Boyd's(glass bed it if you'd like). This will most likely provide you with a decent(maybe not perfect but stable) basic rifle to LEARN.
There's a lot more involved in "shooting long range" than just paying the $$ for a rifle and popping away. You should expect to wear out your first rifle in the process of learning to shoot it.

There's a wide variety of .308 ammo available from mediocre mil-spec to some pretty darned good match grade stuff. You really don't need the high end stuff to shoot 100-200 yards. Sure you'll get a few flyers here and there but you'll find out when you've reached the limit of your equipment and are ready to take the next step.

[jmr40]

The 308 used to be a top pick for this type of shooting and is still a good option. But the various 6.5mm rounds are proving to be enough better that most serious shooters are making the change. The 6.5 Creedmoor seems to be the best option.

[kraigwy]

You don't reload so the 308 or 223 would be your best option.

Don't believe the hype the 223 cant be used for distance shooting. You talk about 500 yards, HP, as mentioned, is fired at 200, 300, and 600. The Sport is dominated by the 223 in ARs.

5-600 is considered Mid Range. But I've shot some good scores in 1000 yard service rifle matches using a 223, seen a heck of a lot more.

The 308 is good too, I have 6.5 CMs and other rifles more then capable of shooting long range, 1000 yards or better. But my go to long range rifle is my Model 70 Target Rifle in 308.

223 & 308 ammo is going to be easier to find, and you'll find it cheaper.

Based on you post, there are two goals.

One to buy a new rifle. I don't know about the Howa but I'm sure its more the capable of shooting 500 yards plus.

If you want a new gun, by all means get one. I'm the last person to discourage one from buying guns.

But, having said that, if your main goal is learning to shoot at distance. I'd spend the money on ammo, and learning to shoot. Your AR would be a good place to start.

Long range shooting isn't about equipment, guns or ammo, Longe Range shooting is about "weaponizing math" and fundamentals.

[JustSgtPat]

A lot of good information guys, thank you. I am actually learning towards workings get with my AR now. After some thought and reading I figure learn with what I have and then ask questions as they come up. I have heard most shooters will allow you to shot their rifle if you are interested. That way I don't buy something I might not like.

[FMFDOC]

I'll second the 5.56 NATO (not .223 - my opinion is its underpowered compared to the 5.56, but that's personal opinion) for midrange, say out to 600 meters. When I qualified with my USMC units, it was out to 500m with M16 or M4 and iron sights. However, it's "easier" with a heavier caliber. I've been shooting a Remington 700 .308 Win and it's made 600 yards a breeze. I'm taking my Ruger American 6.5 Creedmoor out for the first time today, so that'll be interesting.

One big thing to make sure of is that you have good glass (you mentioned scope power but not make/model), and a ballistics field chart to reference for each round. It does make a difference at 1000m.

[dgludwig]

QUOTE: "...I'll second the 5.56 NATO (not .223 - my opinion is its underpowered compared to the 5.56, but that's personal opinion)..."

I know you said it's just your "personal opinion", and I respect that, but to suggest that the .223 is "underpowered" when compared to the 5.56 is an allegation that I have to dispute. Where did you get this information? These cartridges are essentially identical, ballistically and in configuration, not withstanding the argument some make that .223 cartridges shouldn't be shot in rifles chambered for 5.56. If there's a difference I would suggest that it doesn't make a whit of difference in terms of practicality. To say "not .223" (as opposed to the 5.56) doesn't make any sense to me.

And welcome to The Firing Line!

[snolden]

I am running a Savage 110 in .30-06 out to 850 yards pretty well. On most days I can keep my groups at about 12" with hand loads at that distance. As mentioned above, it was a dilemma for me too. I went with about 5000 rounds of components instead of buying a new gun.

Trigger time at those distances is the only way to learn. Once you learn on a .30 caliber, switching to a 6.5 or 7mm makes it seem easy.

However, be ready to get a whole new hobby. Learning the wind and building/testing my ballistics chart took 2 years. Working up the load in the first place took me about 3 months. Now I am in my second year on learning mirage. Plus the 2500 rounds or so to get my trigger pull to become second nature.

All told even though I have had this rifle for 20 years, I have only been shooting past 100 yards for about 10 years.

This morning I had an abbreviated range session and only shot to 400 meters.

Shooting at 3,4 or 7 hundred yards does make you a whole lot better at 100.though

That's my experience with long range shooting.

[vc1911]

snolden what optic are you running?

I also already have a sav110 in 30-06.