Murder in SC - Page 2

ltc444 · December 30, 2011, 05:05 PM

Finally concure with Conn. Good advice.

G1R2 · December 30, 2011, 06:52 PM

I think a “situational awareness” course should be drilled into every school child.

I suspect most people are walking around without a clue about what is going on around them and the thought of carrying a firearm for protection is only for those paranoid gun people.

If you are about to die a violent death at the hands of others, I pray that your last thought isn’t “If I only had a firearm, I would survive this”. Be ARMED, it’s your constitutional right.

C0untZer0 · December 30, 2011, 09:14 PM

I don't think I could get off the phone with them until I found out were loved one was at and where they were heading.

Then I would advise them to call 911

I would call 911 - give descriptions

I would grab my range bag and shotgun and start heading toward them.

I would call them back or try to call them back.

Part of the being run off the road thing is a natural tendency to avoid accidents - so when a car gets too close to you - you swerve away from it, but I'd also tell loved one not to stop even if there is a collision, and don't let yourself be run off the road - put your wheels hard into the other car if necesary, you're better off with a collision in the middle of the road than you being off to the side of the road unseen.

I'd also tell her even if you have to put it in reverse and tear your front end off - don't stop and don't get out of your car.

Like peetzakilla said:

If your car goes off the road you don't stop until its disabled. Mailboxes, fences, sheep, run them over. Lay on the horn, nonstop. Run red lights if you can and have to... None of that matters right then.

Doc Intrepid · December 30, 2011, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pax

"...All true, so sadly true.

So what would you tell your wife or your daughter if she called you in a situation like this? What advice would you give her? What questions would you ask and what would you do with the information?"

Kathy,

IMO this is one of the scenarios in which a onboard communications service such as OnStar really shines. To answer your question, I would advise my (wife/neice) to punch the OnStar button, declare an emergency, and have them dial 911. The GPS feature establishes her exact location with respect to local law enforcement.

It also allows the 911 operator (not me) to ask questions regarding the pursuer.

I would also advise them to be prepared to use the handgun they have with them if any attempt is made to stop the vehicle (or other imminent threat). As far as I'm concerned, running someone off the road is assault with a deadly weapon - to wit, the adversary's vehicle.

I concur with many previous remarks as well regarding the situation being a lethal force scenario and giving yourself permission to fight with no holds barred. Most civilians have never used their own vehicles as weapons, and perhaps in a scenario such as the one you've posted, her own vehicle may well have been the best weapon available to the young lady at the moment she was attacked.

wayneinFL · December 31, 2011, 12:50 AM

Something that came to mind after reading that cornered cat link:

There's almost always SOME traffic on the road. What if you just waited until you saw a line of cars coming, then pulled across the oncoming lane, blocking both lanes? Not sudden enough to cause an accident, but enough to get 4 or 5 cars to stop. It would get the attention of several witnesses.

You'd have a bunch of people angry with you, and your attacker would play dumb, and make you out to be a paranoid nutcase. But you'd be alive.

kraigwy · December 31, 2011, 01:03 AM

Quote:

There's almost always SOME traffic on the road. What if you just waited until you saw a line of cars coming,

I don't know about South Carolina, but I wouldn't count on that happening here.

My truck broke down while hunting one year. I made it to the Highway (450 between Newcastle and Wright) about 7 PM. Started hitch hiking. The second car that came by stopped. That was 2 AM,

jimbob86 · December 31, 2011, 01:15 AM

Quote:

There's almost always SOME traffic on the road. What if you just waited until you saw a line of cars coming, then pulled across the oncoming lane, blocking both lanes? Not sudden enough to cause an accident, but enough to get 4 or 5 cars to stop. It would get the attention of several witnesses.

Bad idea....... The person in the oncoming car could panic and swerve into YOUR lane. Head on collisions are deadly at highway speeds. I'd rather take my chances being run off the road.

If run off the road, keep driving if possible. When it's not, STAY IN THE CAR. If he tries to get you out of the car, fight with whatever you have ...... DO NOT LEAVE WITH HIM, even if he says he'll kill you, because he will in all likelhood, kill you anyway, after he plays whatever reindeer games he wants to first......

...... I think it is far better to pull over, and if he tries to get you out of the car .....well then, as Lawdog put it so very well, "centerpunch his rotten heart out his spineless back".....

http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2...g-she-was.html

wayneinFL · December 31, 2011, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Bad idea....... The person in the oncoming car could panic and swerve into YOUR lane. Head on collisions are deadly at highway speeds. I'd rather take my chances being run off the road.

Hell, head on collisions are deadly at 35. Obviously, I'm not advocating causing a head on collision:

Quote:

Not sudden enough to cause an accident

I'd think a 1/4 mile on a straight stretch of highway would be enough to stop traffic, but not enough for a guy to drag a woman out of the car without anyone noticing.

jimbob86 · December 31, 2011, 01:37 AM

Quote:

I'd think a 1/4 mile on a straight stretch of highway would be enough to stop traffic,

Think about that: Don't you see people pasing all the time- they are 1/4 mile away and in your lane....... Unless you stayed in the oncoming lane long enough to frighten them (causing the panic reaction above, possibly), then they'll think nothing of it.........

wayneinFL · December 31, 2011, 01:49 AM

I don't think I am painting a very good picture of what I'm talking about. Maybe because I'm tired.

Let's say the lady was driving on a 2 lane rural highway. Let's say she saw a line of oncoming cars, maybe three or four of them. They're maybe a 1/4 mile down the road. Let's say she pulls across and stops, blocking both lanes. Not only are they going to notice, but they're going to have to stop, because she's in the way. They'd have to at least slow down enough to pull off onto the grass to get around her. No way they're not going to notice a guy trying to drag a woman out of a car.

May still be a stupid idea, may not work all the time, obviously won't work in some places out west. Just a thought.

jimbob86 · December 31, 2011, 01:52 AM

Ok sorry I misunderstood, Wayne .....

Hiker 1 · January 1, 2012, 01:40 PM

If you receive that phone call, what would you say? How would you respond to the victim's plea for help?

This is sound advice from kraigwy: So if I recieved such call from my wife, I would tell her to aim for the closest ranch house she sees, get on the horn and stay on it as she drives into the rancher's yard and he/she comes to their aid.

This is excellent as well: to give them the social permission to act like a genuine emergency is taking place.

I would advise her how serious this is and to use the car as a weapon if necessary.

I would also try to get a bead on her location and start heading there myself asap. I might be able to get there quicker than the cops.

Hiker 1 · January 1, 2012, 01:43 PM

The gloves are off.

Indeed. This case is a reminder that we must prepare our loved ones for the day when the gloves do come off.

pax · January 1, 2012, 01:53 PM

Anything else you guys would do or say as the person on the other end of that frantic phone call?

pax

jimbob86 · January 1, 2012, 02:11 PM

Love you. Be Brave. Fight if you must, and fight to win.

Capt. Charlie · January 1, 2012, 03:15 PM

This is really a tough one. I don't think anything is going to ensure a happy ending here. In addition to a lot of the good ideas posted here, I can only add this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pax in Post #7

5) Because cell phone coverage is spotty to nonexistent in our area, I would not have access to a second phone line, nor would I have confidence that she could call 911 after she'd wasted her first call on me. Although I would rather keep her on the phone myself, for mutual comfort, I would hang up and call 911 with the information she'd given me. I would also direct her to do the same, but I would never assume she'd successfully done so.

Most cell phone services today include conference calling. Use that to bring 911 into the conversation. Stay on the line, but let 911 operators do the talking. They know what questions to ask and will most likely be a lot calmer than you.

Also, I've been told (but can't confirm) that a call to 911 will access ANY carrier's service, so don't assume that cell phone is useless. If, for example, you have service with Verizon, but they have poor service in that area, the call will automatically be routed to any other carrier (AT&T for example) that does have an active signal in that area. Can anyone here confirm or dispute this?

MLeake · January 1, 2012, 03:20 PM

Capt Charlie, in theory, even an old cell phone that is no longer on a plan can access 911 (assuming it is charged). I know people who have kept obsolescent phones as emergency vehicle phones.

I also know I have never seen a roaming bill when using a cell to call 911 from a highway. (I'm one of those people who tends to call in road hazards or broken down cars / distressed motorists, at those times where stopping seems unsafe.)

Pbearperry · January 1, 2012, 03:20 PM

Sadly,most people have no plan in their minds for any type of emergency.The average person seldom feels they will be a victim,it's always someone else.I watch people in public on foot and driving in motor vehicles and they are totally clueless.

wayneinFL · January 1, 2012, 05:09 PM

http://savannahnow.com/latest-news/2...e#.TwDY49WriR9

This might work:

Quote:

Savannah woman takes gunman on wild ride
Posted: December 31, 2011 - 8:34pm

By Constance Cooper

A 50-year-old Savannah nurse took a gunman on a wild ride after she found him hiding in the backseat of her car.

Police say the woman stepped on the accelerator when she spotted a man in a ski mask in her backseat as she pulled her GMC Yukon out of work at the intersection of Eisenhower Drive and Waters Avenue shortly before 8 p.m. Friday.

He put a gun to her head and threatened to kill her. The woman struck a car and a street sign and jumped a concrete median on Eisenhower Drive in an effort to attract attention to herself.

No one was injured in the incident and damages were minor, police say.

The gunman, who remained at large Saturday night, is described as a tall, slender black man wearing a gray and yellow flannel or camouflage ski jacket, a black ski mask, black baseball cap and gloves.

.

Hiker 1 · January 1, 2012, 06:57 PM

Anything else you guys would do or say as the person on the other end of that frantic phone call?

"Stay calm. Focus on what you have to do."

MTT TL · January 1, 2012, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Anything else you guys would do or say as the person on the other end of that frantic phone call?

I guess "I told you so" would be inappropriate?

A few other things I would mention, but lastly I would tell her where I would be trying to link up with her. Since this would be one of the very few times where a confrontation was anticipated I would likely grab my rifle and vest.

wayneinFL · January 1, 2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

I guess "I told you so" would be inappropriate?

kilimanjaro · January 2, 2012, 10:40 PM

What a tragic story. Also tragic, is a sheriff who is now giving free pistol classes to citizens. He should have been doing exactly that since day One, and advising folks to get pistols and permits each and every time he was on camera or quoted in the news. "Normalcy Bias" was at work for both this poor woman and law enforcement.

m&p45acp10+1 · January 2, 2012, 11:31 PM

If this were someone that is in my close circle of cared for people.

First thing is where are you at?

Second do not let them get around or beside you. If they get beside you brake hard let them pass. Stop quickly and double back if you can. If you can not keep them ahead of you. Do not stop for them.

Do not hang up. I am going to get 911 on 3 way calling. I want you to talk to the operator.

baddarryl · January 3, 2012, 12:46 AM

The smiling, friendly look on her face of that video is the most chilling aspect of this. I hope they fry that dog.

January 1, 2012, 01:53 PM	#39
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	Anything else you guys would do or say as the person on the other end of that frantic phone call? pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

January 1, 2012, 03:20 PM	#43
Pbearperry Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2008 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 283	woman killed Sadly,most people have no plan in their minds for any type of emergency.The average person seldom feels they will be a victim,it's always someone else.I watch people in public on foot and driving in motor vehicles and they are totally clueless.

January 2, 2012, 11:31 PM	#49
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	If this were someone that is in my close circle of cared for people. First thing is where are you at? Second do not let them get around or beside you. If they get beside you brake hard let them pass. Stop quickly and double back if you can. If you can not keep them ahead of you. Do not stop for them. Do not hang up. I am going to get 911 on 3 way calling. I want you to talk to the operator. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

December 30, 2011, 05:05 PM	#26
ltc444 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2011 Location: Vernon AZ Posts: 1,195	Finally concure with Conn. Good advice.

December 30, 2011, 06:52 PM	#27
G1R2 Member Join Date: December 20, 2011 Posts: 73	I think a “situational awareness” course should be drilled into every school child. I suspect most people are walking around without a clue about what is going on around them and the thought of carrying a firearm for protection is only for those paranoid gun people. If you are about to die a violent death at the hands of others, I pray that your last thought isn’t “If I only had a firearm, I would survive this”. Be ARMED, it’s your constitutional right.

December 30, 2011, 09:14 PM	#28
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I don't think I could get off the phone with them until I found out were loved one was at and where they were heading. Then I would advise them to call 911 I would call 911 - give descriptions I would grab my range bag and shotgun and start heading toward them. I would call them back or try to call them back. Part of the being run off the road thing is a natural tendency to avoid accidents - so when a car gets too close to you - you swerve away from it, but I'd also tell loved one not to stop even if there is a collision, and don't let yourself be run off the road - put your wheels hard into the other car if necesary, you're better off with a collision in the middle of the road than you being off to the side of the road unseen. I'd also tell her even if you have to put it in reverse and tear your front end off - don't stop and don't get out of your car. Like peetzakilla said: If your car goes off the road you don't stop until its disabled. Mailboxes, fences, sheep, run them over. Lay on the horn, nonstop. Run red lights if you can and have to... None of that matters right then.

December 31, 2011, 12:50 AM	#30
wayneinFL Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2004 Posts: 1,944	Something that came to mind after reading that cornered cat link: There's almost always SOME traffic on the road. What if you just waited until you saw a line of cars coming, then pulled across the oncoming lane, blocking both lanes? Not sudden enough to cause an accident, but enough to get 4 or 5 cars to stop. It would get the attention of several witnesses. You'd have a bunch of people angry with you, and your attacker would play dumb, and make you out to be a paranoid nutcase. But you'd be alive.

December 31, 2011, 01:49 AM	#35
wayneinFL Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2004 Posts: 1,944	I don't think I am painting a very good picture of what I'm talking about. Maybe because I'm tired. Let's say the lady was driving on a 2 lane rural highway. Let's say she saw a line of oncoming cars, maybe three or four of them. They're maybe a 1/4 mile down the road. Let's say she pulls across and stops, blocking both lanes. Not only are they going to notice, but they're going to have to stop, because she's in the way. They'd have to at least slow down enough to pull off onto the grass to get around her. No way they're not going to notice a guy trying to drag a woman out of a car. May still be a stupid idea, may not work all the time, obviously won't work in some places out west. Just a thought.

December 31, 2011, 01:52 AM	#36
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Ok sorry I misunderstood, Wayne .....

January 1, 2012, 01:40 PM	#37
Hiker 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 596	If you receive that phone call, what would you say? How would you respond to the victim's plea for help? This is sound advice from kraigwy: So if I recieved such call from my wife, I would tell her to aim for the closest ranch house she sees, get on the horn and stay on it as she drives into the rancher's yard and he/she comes to their aid. This is excellent as well: to give them the social permission to act like a genuine emergency is taking place. I would advise her how serious this is and to use the car as a weapon if necessary. I would also try to get a bead on her location and start heading there myself asap. I might be able to get there quicker than the cops.

January 1, 2012, 01:43 PM	#38
Hiker 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 596	The gloves are off. Indeed. This case is a reminder that we must prepare our loved ones for the day when the gloves do come off.

January 1, 2012, 02:11 PM	#40
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Love you. Be Brave. Fight if you must, and fight to win.

January 1, 2012, 03:20 PM	#42
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Capt Charlie, in theory, even an old cell phone that is no longer on a plan can access 911 (assuming it is charged). I know people who have kept obsolescent phones as emergency vehicle phones. I also know I have never seen a roaming bill when using a cell to call 911 from a highway. (I'm one of those people who tends to call in road hazards or broken down cars / distressed motorists, at those times where stopping seems unsafe.)

January 1, 2012, 06:57 PM	#45
Hiker 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 596	Anything else you guys would do or say as the person on the other end of that frantic phone call? "Stay calm. Focus on what you have to do."

January 2, 2012, 10:40 PM	#48
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	What a tragic story. Also tragic, is a sheriff who is now giving free pistol classes to citizens. He should have been doing exactly that since day One, and advising folks to get pistols and permits each and every time he was on camera or quoted in the news. "Normalcy Bias" was at work for both this poor woman and law enforcement.

January 3, 2012, 12:46 AM	#50
baddarryl Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2011 Location: Cape Fear! Posts: 1,683	The smiling, friendly look on her face of that video is the most chilling aspect of this. I hope they fry that dog.