Mosin Rimlock, Need More Solutions!

ZRTaylor · October 30, 2013, 01:12 AM

Friendly greetings all.

I acquired a Mosin as my first rifle a little while back, and I've been enjoying shooting it. Now that the novelty has worn off and the itch to buy every accessory under the sun (which for the Mosin isn't many) has begun to abate, I've decided to settle down to improving my rifle's functionality and accuracy.

First on the list is a feeding issue that I've been battling regularly. I've been loading my stripper clips in a pyramid type space arrangement, rims like so:

****---****
**---**---**
---******---

When I feed the rounds in to the magazine, however, I get a rimlock four times out of five. This is only a problem with the top round. All other rounds cycle flawlessly regardless of rim ordering. My understanding is that with a properly functioning interrupter there is no mechanical reason for a Mosin to rimlock, regardless of the arrangement of the cartridge rims.

To combat this problem I ordered a full replacement spring kit from "buymilsurp.com" and replaced the interrupter spring. There was a marginal decrease in rimlock frequency, but it's still an unacceptably regular occurrence.

I'm at a loss for how to combat this problem. What should I be checking next in order to troubleshoot this problem so that I can move past reliability issues and get on with more interesting projects?

Bezoar · October 30, 2013, 07:09 AM

get the stripper clips that are actually mosin surplus. alot of the amazon ones are modern made and not exactly set up correctly according to the mosin websites.

if you have a true mosin stripper clip, when you insert the ammo, tip the top cartridge up slightly as you push the cartridges into the magazine. that is supposed to orientate things correctly

Rodger_p · October 30, 2013, 07:41 AM

^^^^^^^^^^

What he said

ZRTaylor · October 30, 2013, 12:06 PM

So am I to understand that there's nothing mechanically wrong with my rifle then, and that the issue is just an error in technique?

emcon5 · October 30, 2013, 03:09 PM

Quote:

First on the list is a feeding issue that I've been battling regularly. I've been loading my stripper clips in a pyramid type space arrangement, rims like so:

****---****
**---**---**
---******---

Is that the way the clips are supposed to be loaded?

I would think it would be loaded the same way as an Enfield, like this:

**__**__**
__**__**__

Erno86 · October 30, 2013, 03:32 PM

I thought the bottom cartridge on the Mosin stripper clip has to be pointed slightly upwards.

wogpotter · October 30, 2013, 03:43 PM

I'm no Mosin expert but on the Enfields its where you push down that dictates how the rims "jump" from the charger to the magazine. Is there a specific cutout on the gun somewhere that might indicate where the thumb is supposed to be placed?
Incidentally the shown stagger for Enfield clips isn't quite right, both chargers should be loaded exactly the same , even if it is a bit counter intuitive.

jimbob86 · October 30, 2013, 04:08 PM

Here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1sLqC5k6_4

jimbob86 · October 30, 2013, 04:16 PM

wog, I'd bet a stripper clip loaded like that and pushed into a Mosin would rimlock on the very first round: that rim is behind the rim of the second round, as is the third behind the fourth......

James K · October 30, 2013, 06:22 PM

The whole purpose of the interuptor* is to eliminate rimlock by presenting one cartridge at a time to the bolt. It doesn't matter where the rims are in the clip or in the magazine. To check (using dummy rounds if possible), load two rounds, pushing them down into the magazine as far as they will go. Both rounds will be held by the interrupter; neither will be presented to the bolt. Now close the bolt. It will close on an empty chamber. When the bolt handle is turned down, you hear a click as the top round is released. Now open the bolt and notice that the top round is now in position to be picked up by the bolt, but has no spring tension on it; it is just lying there. Feed that round into the chamber and close and lock the bolt. Again you will hear a click as the next round is released. Open the bolt and extract and eject the chambered round. The second round is now presented to the bolt face for loading.

If the rifle doesn't work that way, something is wrong.

*The bottom "tail" of the ejector spring.

Jim

ZRTaylor · October 30, 2013, 11:14 PM

James K: Well, I've replaced the ejector spring, and there is still a malfunction, but only with the top round of a full magazine. Is there a way to adjust my interrupter to function properly, or was I simply sold an insufficient component?

emcon5 · October 31, 2013, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wogpotter

Incidentally the shown stagger for Enfield clips isn't quite right

That is the same as I posted. I used "___" for the rim, and "***" for spaces, the same way the OP did in his diagram.

And for what it is worth, I do just fine with stripper clips in a Mauser, Enfield or 1903, but never could get them to work worth a crap in a Mosin Nagant.

Maybe I need better clips, but it doesn't bother me all that much.

gyvel · October 31, 2013, 05:35 AM

Try replacing the interrupter.

wogpotter · October 31, 2013, 07:33 AM

Quote:

That is the same as I posted.

We're having a miscommunication somewhere here.

You posted this:

Quote:

**__**__**
__**__**__

It should be both chargers set up the exact same, not reversed like your illustration seems to show?
So this would be correct
_-_-_
_-_-_
or
__**__**__
__**__**__
for both chargers. Your illustration seems to have the two reversed.

wogpotter · October 31, 2013, 07:35 AM

Quote:

wog, I'd bet a stripper clip loaded like that and pushed into a Mosin would rimlock on the very first round: that rim is behind the rim of the second round, as is the third behind the fourth......

That's why I posted the "not an expert in Mosin" disclaimer. It IS counter intuitive, even on an Enfield but surprisingly it is right & does work (on an Enfield).

emcon5 · October 31, 2013, 09:06 AM

Quote:

It should be both chargers set up the exact same, not reversed like your illustration seems to show?
So this would be correct

Ahh, I see the problem.

My diagram, crude as it is with ASCI characters is only one charger. Ignore the ***, the rims are ___

Yours is better, on a single line, nothing but rims: ___---___---___

Cy4ka · October 31, 2013, 10:28 AM

Hmm. Learn something everyday here.

wogpotter · October 31, 2013, 11:13 AM

OK problem solved!

James K · October 31, 2013, 04:39 PM

I will say this again. You can draw all the pictures you want, but it shouldn't matter how the rounds are positioned in an M-N clip. The M-N is (big surprise!) NOT a Lee-Enfield. It doesn't matter how the rims sit in the magazine. Repeat, it is NOT a Lee-Enfield. If properly functioning, the mechanism will release only one round at a time, so rimlock is not going to happen.

If the interrupter doesn't work, it might be due to the stock getting in the way, to dirt or grease, or broken, bent or worn parts, or to out-of-spec parts. I don't know without seeing the rifle. One test is to take the rifle out of the stock, put the bottom metal back on, then test the action. If it works, check to see where the stock is interfering. (That has been a common problem with rifles that have been put together out of parts.)

Jim

jimbob86 · October 31, 2013, 04:51 PM

By George, I do believe James K is right!

A bit of investigation shows me that the top round in the magazine is indeed floppin' around loose in there, while the ones below are held down by that interupter dealy .... until the bolt closes.

ZRTaylor · November 1, 2013, 12:42 AM

James K: I'll try removing the stock and see if it makes a difference. Thanks for the idea. Are there any other common causes of malfunction that I should look for, or is it just a matter of having an experienced eye take a look?

Edit: Well I'll be dipped (as my grandfather was fond of saying) that actually worked. Took her out of the stock and she loaded like a dream, and nary a sign of rimlock. Now just have to find a way to get those results while IN the stock. Thank you, so very very much. Looks like it's time to break out the sandpaper.

wogpotter · November 1, 2013, 08:01 AM

Quote:

I will say this again. You can draw all the pictures you want, but it shouldn't matter how the rounds are positioned in an M-N clip. The M-N is (big surprise!) NOT a Lee-Enfield. It doesn't matter how the rims sit in the magazine. Repeat, it is NOT a Lee-Enfield. If properly functioning, the mechanism will release only one round at a time, so rimlock is not going to happen.

I'm fully aware of that, thank you. I was just trying to be of some assistance while admitting I'm not an expert in that area. I apologize for attempting to assist & will not do so in future.
Have a pleasant day, sir.

James K · November 1, 2013, 03:10 PM

Hi, Wogpotter,

I am sorry you feel that way, and my post was not aimed at anyone specifically. You have contributed a lot of info on this site and I for one would hate to lose your expertise. So, I apologize for what I implied even though no offense was intended.

Hi, ZRTaylor,

The stock is probably interfering with the movement of the ejector or the ejector spring. You might have to trim away a little bit of wood in that area.

Jim

bill-may · November 2, 2013, 07:05 AM

the very best way to absolve rimlock is a finn altered magazine. it has 2 dimples that stabilize the feeding of rounds. a good idea is to go to smiths-sights.com and read josh's tech articles about mosin nagants.

James K · November 2, 2013, 08:59 PM

That site simply repeats what has been said here, that improper inletting can keep the interrupter from working. On another site, someone asked whether the M-N could be altered to function like the Model 1891 Mauser. The answer is yes, but I see no reason to spend money to change the magazine to one which would be subject to rimlock when the oriiginal magazine was designed to prevent it. It would be a different story if the rifle were to be altered to a rimless round like the .30-'06 (as was done in the 1920's), but that too would be costly and with no special benefit (plus some degree of danger).

The M-N rifle is not one of my favorites, but it is a better rifle than some folks believe; just get it working right if necessary then shoot it as it is and have fun.

Jim

October 30, 2013, 01:12 AM	#1
ZRTaylor Member Join Date: March 4, 2013 Location: NW Idaho Posts: 53	Mosin Rimlock, Need More Solutions! Friendly greetings all. I acquired a Mosin as my first rifle a little while back, and I've been enjoying shooting it. Now that the novelty has worn off and the itch to buy every accessory under the sun (which for the Mosin isn't many) has begun to abate, I've decided to settle down to improving my rifle's functionality and accuracy. First on the list is a feeding issue that I've been battling regularly. I've been loading my stripper clips in a pyramid type space arrangement, rims like so: **--- ------ ---******--- When I feed the rounds in to the magazine, however, I get a rimlock four times out of five. This is only a problem with the top round. All other rounds cycle flawlessly regardless of rim ordering. My understanding is that with a properly functioning interrupter there is no mechanical reason for a Mosin to rimlock, regardless of the arrangement of the cartridge rims. To combat this problem I ordered a full replacement spring kit from "buymilsurp.com" and replaced the interrupter spring. There was a marginal decrease in rimlock frequency, but it's still an unacceptably regular occurrence. I'm at a loss for how to combat this problem. What should I be checking next in order to troubleshoot this problem so that I can move past reliability issues and get on with more interesting projects?

October 30, 2013, 03:32 PM	#6
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	I thought the bottom cartridge on the Mosin stripper clip has to be pointed slightly upwards. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell

October 30, 2013, 03:43 PM	#7
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	I'm no Mosin expert but on the Enfields its where you push down that dictates how the rims "jump" from the charger to the magazine. Is there a specific cutout on the gun somewhere that might indicate where the thumb is supposed to be placed? Incidentally the shown stagger for Enfield clips isn't quite right, both chargers should be loaded exactly the same , even if it is a bit counter intuitive. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

October 31, 2013, 11:13 AM	#18
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	OK problem solved! __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

November 1, 2013, 12:42 AM	#21
ZRTaylor Member Join Date: March 4, 2013 Location: NW Idaho Posts: 53	James K: I'll try removing the stock and see if it makes a difference. Thanks for the idea. Are there any other common causes of malfunction that I should look for, or is it just a matter of having an experienced eye take a look? Edit: Well I'll be dipped (as my grandfather was fond of saying) that actually worked. Took her out of the stock and she loaded like a dream, and nary a sign of rimlock. Now just have to find a way to get those results while IN the stock. Thank you, so very very much. Looks like it's time to break out the sandpaper. Last edited by ZRTaylor; November 1, 2013 at 02:02 AM.

October 30, 2013, 07:09 AM	#2
Bezoar Junior member Join Date: October 19, 2004 Location: michigan Posts: 578	get the stripper clips that are actually mosin surplus. alot of the amazon ones are modern made and not exactly set up correctly according to the mosin websites. if you have a true mosin stripper clip, when you insert the ammo, tip the top cartridge up slightly as you push the cartridges into the magazine. that is supposed to orientate things correctly

October 30, 2013, 07:41 AM	#3
Rodger_p Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2004 Location: East TN. Posts: 207	^^^^^^^^^^ What he said

October 30, 2013, 12:06 PM	#4
ZRTaylor Member Join Date: March 4, 2013 Location: NW Idaho Posts: 53	So am I to understand that there's nothing mechanically wrong with my rifle then, and that the issue is just an error in technique?

October 30, 2013, 04:08 PM	#8
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Here ya go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1sLqC5k6_4

October 30, 2013, 04:16 PM	#9
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	wog, I'd bet a stripper clip loaded like that and pushed into a Mosin would rimlock on the very first round: that rim is behind the rim of the second round, as is the third behind the fourth......

October 30, 2013, 06:22 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The whole purpose of the interuptor* is to eliminate rimlock by presenting one cartridge at a time to the bolt. It doesn't matter where the rims are in the clip or in the magazine. To check (using dummy rounds if possible), load two rounds, pushing them down into the magazine as far as they will go. Both rounds will be held by the interrupter; neither will be presented to the bolt. Now close the bolt. It will close on an empty chamber. When the bolt handle is turned down, you hear a click as the top round is released. Now open the bolt and notice that the top round is now in position to be picked up by the bolt, but has no spring tension on it; it is just lying there. Feed that round into the chamber and close and lock the bolt. Again you will hear a click as the next round is released. Open the bolt and extract and eject the chambered round. The second round is now presented to the bolt face for loading. If the rifle doesn't work that way, something is wrong. *The bottom "tail" of the ejector spring. Jim

October 30, 2013, 11:14 PM	#11
ZRTaylor Member Join Date: March 4, 2013 Location: NW Idaho Posts: 53	James K: Well, I've replaced the ejector spring, and there is still a malfunction, but only with the top round of a full magazine. Is there a way to adjust my interrupter to function properly, or was I simply sold an insufficient component?

October 31, 2013, 05:35 AM	#13
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Try replacing the interrupter.

October 31, 2013, 10:28 AM	#17
Cy4ka Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Posts: 39	Hmm. Learn something everyday here.

October 31, 2013, 04:39 PM	#19
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I will say this again. You can draw all the pictures you want, but it shouldn't matter how the rounds are positioned in an M-N clip. The M-N is (big surprise!) NOT a Lee-Enfield. It doesn't matter how the rims sit in the magazine. Repeat, it is NOT a Lee-Enfield. If properly functioning, the mechanism will release only one round at a time, so rimlock is not going to happen. If the interrupter doesn't work, it might be due to the stock getting in the way, to dirt or grease, or broken, bent or worn parts, or to out-of-spec parts. I don't know without seeing the rifle. One test is to take the rifle out of the stock, put the bottom metal back on, then test the action. If it works, check to see where the stock is interfering. (That has been a common problem with rifles that have been put together out of parts.) Jim

October 31, 2013, 04:51 PM	#20
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	By George, I do believe James K is right! A bit of investigation shows me that the top round in the magazine is indeed floppin' around loose in there, while the ones below are held down by that interupter dealy .... until the bolt closes.

November 1, 2013, 03:10 PM	#23
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Wogpotter, I am sorry you feel that way, and my post was not aimed at anyone specifically. You have contributed a lot of info on this site and I for one would hate to lose your expertise. So, I apologize for what I implied even though no offense was intended. Hi, ZRTaylor, The stock is probably interfering with the movement of the ejector or the ejector spring. You might have to trim away a little bit of wood in that area. Jim

November 2, 2013, 07:05 AM	#24
bill-may Member Join Date: October 18, 2013 Location: San Diego,ca Posts: 20	the very best way to absolve rimlock is a finn altered magazine. it has 2 dimples that stabilize the feeding of rounds. a good idea is to go to smiths-sights.com and read josh's tech articles about mosin nagants. __________________ guns enemies are rust,bubba and politicians.

November 2, 2013, 08:59 PM	#25
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	That site simply repeats what has been said here, that improper inletting can keep the interrupter from working. On another site, someone asked whether the M-N could be altered to function like the Model 1891 Mauser. The answer is yes, but I see no reason to spend money to change the magazine to one which would be subject to rimlock when the oriiginal magazine was designed to prevent it. It would be a different story if the rifle were to be altered to a rimless round like the .30-'06 (as was done in the 1920's), but that too would be costly and with no special benefit (plus some degree of danger). The M-N rifle is not one of my favorites, but it is a better rifle than some folks believe; just get it working right if necessary then shoot it as it is and have fun. Jim