Should a chronograph be part of the reloading toolbox? - Page 2

Jim243 · April 19, 2011, 01:37 PM

Is it necessary, no. Is it nice to have and the data it provides, Yes. I have been looking at the CED for the past two years and at $200.00 it is just a bit too expensive to sit in the closet 90% of the time. I work up my loads for each rifle and pretty much stick to them once found. Not a lot of need unless I get another rifle.

But there are a lot of demands on my money not the least taking care of my family. One thing I have come more and more to need is a power case trimmer. I have it picked out and it too is around $200.00. So what to get the CED or power case trimmer. I know which I would use the most and if my loads are 150 fps lower than published, so be it as long as they hit the X ring at 100 yards. Besides I can't seeing shooting up a $200.00 chrony by accident.

Just my 5 and 1/2 cents.
Jim

Doodlebugger45 · April 19, 2011, 02:41 PM

I'll admit that I would like to have one. But it would be just for a fun thing to do. It wouldn't affect which loads shoot the most accurately. Before I spend $200 for a chronograph, I'll probably spend the money to buy the powder dispenser to match up with my Rangemaster 1500 scale. That's another thing that isn't necessary, but would be nice to have.

I work with a guy who is a hunter and occasional shooter but not a reloader. He often asks me what the velocity is of whatever favorite load I developed the day before. He finds it hard to believe that I dodn't know the exact velocity but I do know the precise powder weight, primer, bullet, etc. I suppose if I had a chrono I'd be able to answer that question.

hunter52 · April 19, 2011, 02:55 PM

I bought a Chrony when they first came out,and I am glad I did. Most of the velocities that you see in a reloading manual are not what you will get in the real world.
And,as has been already stated, if you are going to be shooting at long distance,knowing the velocity of your particular bullet,as well as ballistic coefficient can be the difference between a solid hit and a long day tracking.

5RWill · April 19, 2011, 03:31 PM

To me it's necessary for what i'm interested in. For the average shooter that isn't interested in Long Range shooting, absolutely not. But i don't see how i would be able to shoot @ 800-1000 based on guessing. Not that can't be done, but why waste the time and ammo guessing.

As for expensive, my gunsmith who shoots F-class uses a Chrony F1 and my Friend that lets me use his reloading set uses a chrony F1. They are cheap (under 100) and both work pretty well. Some people will tell you to get the best of the best but, if what you have works use it. I feel confident in the Chrony F1's ability, due to the gunsmith has a F-class target framed that he won with his 6mm Dasher, so it has to be decently accurate. If your looking to go all out and want to be as precise as humanly possible with no budget look at Oehler 35p (500$) or the PVM-21 (749$).

LarryFlew · April 19, 2011, 03:54 PM

So much more info once you have one that I vote for a needed item. Makes it nice when working up a load or when checking a load to see how it compares to factory load of the same bullet.

Also went with the guessing game but now that I have had one I'd have trouble going back to not using it when making up a load.

twins · April 19, 2011, 05:09 PM

Thank you all for your feedback....now I'm more confused than ever. :-)

Since I don't own a chrono yet? (hence this thread), let me pose the following scenario to see how a chrono would help me (remember, I'm not loading for 400 yards+ shots nor BR competition shooting)

Lets say I'm loading for 30-06 cartridge, IMR4350 powder (56 gr), Sierra SPBT165gr. The manufacturer's load data shows velocity of 2746. If this load is shooting 2.5" groups at 100 yards, I'll just adjust the powder load till my group(s) start shrinking. So far 57.2 gr with 165 gr bullets gets me within my goal (2-3" at 200 yds).

In my mind, my powder load is well within the manufacturer's safe load data (start load 56 gr, max load 60 gr). 1) Why should I care what the velocity is?

And if I have a chrono, at 2) what +/- of published velocity should I be concerned?

3) So with a chrono, the advantage would be for me to put my load velocity in a ballistic program so I can have an exact drop rate at each distance?

I'm asking the above questions cause I rather spend $ on more powder/bullets/brass/primers/reloading accessories. If a chrono is a must in the reloading accessories department, mama isn't going to be happy (cause the Oehler looks like a good candidate).

Thanks again for your feedback.

4runnerman · April 19, 2011, 06:48 PM

Twins- For what you posted i have to agree 100% with you.It is not a life or death thing. When you are happy with the groups you are shooting there is nothing more than can be said. I pose my question to you.Are you happy enoough with those groups and if so,what keeps you shooting big bore instead of say 22 for cost?. I for one am never happy. I started with 2 inch groups at 200 yards(not good enough) shrank it down to 1.5 inch groups(not good enough). Finally got it down to 3/4 inch groups.(good enough). This all could have been done with out a chrono for sure,but a lot more guessing and wasted bullets. The chrono does more than just what you see on the screen(speed).
It is a picture of your whole reloading process. 10 rounds you load,what is the deveation in them?.Did switching to a mag or bench rest primer make a difference. Did trying a new powder make a difference,COL,,did it make a difference. I guess im just one that likes to know all that is going on,not just were the bullet hits. Ever wonder why sometimes you have 3 or 4 shots real tight and one flyer??Was it you? was it the gun?was it just the bullet haveing 2 /10 ths gn more powder. Chrono would let you know these things.

PawPaw · April 19, 2011, 07:07 PM

Twins, for your limited usage, you're probably correct. You don't need a chronograph.

Quote:

And if I have a chrono, at 2) what +/- of published velocity should I be concerned?

As long as your measured velocity is close to your expected velocity, you're okay, but if you see something that's wildly out of sync with what you expect then you're prudent to dig a little deeper to find out what's going on.

Each rifle is different. Each rifle, even two made consecutively on the line will be different, so some variance is expected, it's those wild differences that should pique your curiosity.

For example. I load for the .243 Winchester and normally get loads from one of several trusted sources (Nosler, Hodgdon, Alliant). I was loading one load with RL22 powder and a 100 grain bullet. The data said that I should be getting 2900 fps from that load. I shot a deer with it and had a bullet failure. I recovered the deer, but was dismayed at the way the bullet performed. I ran the load over the chrony and got an average velocity of 3108 fps.

No wonder that bullet blew up! It hit the deer at well over 200 fps over its design velocity, came apart on a rib, destroyed a shoulder and penetrated very little. Now I know why that bullet performed like it did, and I won't shoot any more deer with that particular load. If I hadn't had a chronograph, I would be wondering still.

If you're raising kids, fighting a budget and trying to balance the books at the end of every month, you might not want to spend the money on a chronograph. I truly understand the stresses that come with raising a family. I didn't buy mine until the kids were "grown-and-gone" and I enjoy the added information that the chronograph gives me.

It's not a must-have item for everyone's reloading bench.

mehavey · April 19, 2011, 09:27 PM

Quote:

.243 Winchester ...loads from one of several trusted sources (Nosler, Hodgdon, Alliant)... RL22 powder and a 100 grain bullet.... average velocity of 3108 fps.

As you said, wow. You were also probably at/slightly over the pressures stops as well. Another reason that serious reloaders -- even for hunting -- tend to wind up w/ chronographs. Cheap insurance/peace of mind.

Kevin Rohrer · April 20, 2011, 11:34 AM

I'd say that anyone who is serious about his reloading and/or shooting should have a chronogragh.

Wildalaska · April 20, 2011, 11:39 AM

Me too

WildjoiningthechorusAlaska ™©2002-2011

sonick808 · April 20, 2011, 01:30 PM

i say yes but I'm a data fiend

Clifford L. Hughes · April 20, 2011, 03:58 PM

Twins:

When I purchased my Ohler conogrape I opened a new venue of fun. Although not necessary, I don't know why I didn't buy one sooner. The Ohler conograph and Ohler's ballistics and pressure programs give all the techincal information that a person will ever need.

Semper Fi.

Gunneery Sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired

twins · April 20, 2011, 05:41 PM

4runner asked:

Quote:

I pose my question to you.Are you happy enoough with those groups and if so,what keeps you shooting big bore instead of say 22 for cost?

I'm a cheap bast***. No other way to put it. All my rifles are bought on clearance/sales rack/used and the highest cost is my TC Venture at $385. So I really don't have any sniper's dream of shooting dime size groups at 100+ yards. Plus I hunt primarily for fun and meat. So the answer to your question is "yes", I'm happy to shoot minute of pronghorn/deer/elk kill zone groups under 350 yards.

twins · April 20, 2011, 05:43 PM

Gunny Hughes,

You're going to be the cause of my marital woes with comments like yours. $600 for the Oehler 35.....mama is going to put me in the dog-house.

twins · April 20, 2011, 05:48 PM

PawPaw posted:

Quote:

If you're raising kids, fighting a budget and trying to balance the books at the end of every month, you might not want to spend the money on a chronograph. I truly understand the stresses that come with raising a family. I didn't buy mine until the kids were "grown-and-gone" and I enjoy the added information that the chronograph gives me.

You got it right PawPaw. My handle says it all. Left over money at the end of each month is spread thin so I need to spend only on necessity. I guess I have 14 years till I can afford my first chrono then.

twins · April 20, 2011, 05:54 PM

KR posted:

Quote:

I'd say that anyone who is serious about his reloading and/or shooting should have a chronogragh

Ouch! I'm serious about reloading safely but I'm guilty of not being a serious shooter. Hence I posted my question about reloading within manufacturer's load data. If I keep the load within their suggestions, do I need a chrono for safety?

Doodlebugger45 · April 20, 2011, 06:25 PM

I think you're safe. When I get a new bullet or new powder that I want to mess with, I start with the max charge weight given by the powder manufacturer and load a cartridge that is 10% below that weight. And another cartridge that is 8% low, 6% low etc, until I have one that is just 2% below the published max. So I take those 5 newly loaded cartridges and start with the lowest and fire it, checking for sticky bolt lifts or obvious case problems. I don't pay much attention to primers, but I pay real close atttention to the bolt lift. If that last one extracts fine, then I know I'm going to be safe and I start working up 3 or 5 cartridge groups to see what is most accurate.

With the liability concerns everyone has these days, I have not seen any obvious pressure signs in any of my rifles even when I get to the published maximums. But you never know so it's best to start with the lower weights first just to make sure.

Clark · April 20, 2011, 07:03 PM

In one particular load in a 38sp revolver, I added 8 gr more powder than the published load for 357 mag.

It was very loud and had tremendous recoil. I did not need to shoot my 44 mag for recoil with boxes of that ammo around.

Then I shot it over the chronograph.

1173 with the original book load.
1155 fps with the extra 8 gr

I was getting more recoil and noise from the gas, but the bullet was not going any faster.

mehavey · April 20, 2011, 07:22 PM

Quote:

1173 with the original book load.
1155 fps with the extra 8 gr

I was getting more recoil and noise from the gas, but the bullet was not going any faster.

That's because the extra powder was acting as filler/not burning until it exited the barrel.
Do you remember the bullet weight/powder type?

Clark · April 21, 2011, 05:56 PM

That was with LIL'GUN.

I think one can get the same effect with LONGSHOT, and almost get that effect with Power Pistol.

TheNatureBoy · April 21, 2011, 06:16 PM

I say yes.

MrWesson · April 21, 2011, 06:22 PM

Some of us are not special and have outdoor ranges/backyards to shoot in.

I am pretty much confined to indoor shooting ranges so I dont own a chrono.

April 19, 2011, 01:37 PM	#26
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Is it necessary, no. Is it nice to have and the data it provides, Yes. I have been looking at the CED for the past two years and at $200.00 it is just a bit too expensive to sit in the closet 90% of the time. I work up my loads for each rifle and pretty much stick to them once found. Not a lot of need unless I get another rifle. But there are a lot of demands on my money not the least taking care of my family. One thing I have come more and more to need is a power case trimmer. I have it picked out and it too is around $200.00. So what to get the CED or power case trimmer. I know which I would use the most and if my loads are 150 fps lower than published, so be it as long as they hit the X ring at 100 yards. Besides I can't seeing shooting up a $200.00 chrony by accident. Just my 5 and 1/2 cents. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

April 19, 2011, 02:55 PM	#28
hunter52 Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 101	nice to have I bought a Chrony when they first came out,and I am glad I did. Most of the velocities that you see in a reloading manual are not what you will get in the real world. And,as has been already stated, if you are going to be shooting at long distance,knowing the velocity of your particular bullet,as well as ballistic coefficient can be the difference between a solid hit and a long day tracking.

April 19, 2011, 03:31 PM	#29
5RWill Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,654	To me it's necessary for what i'm interested in. For the average shooter that isn't interested in Long Range shooting, absolutely not. But i don't see how i would be able to shoot @ 800-1000 based on guessing. Not that can't be done, but why waste the time and ammo guessing. As for expensive, my gunsmith who shoots F-class uses a Chrony F1 and my Friend that lets me use his reloading set uses a chrony F1. They are cheap (under 100) and both work pretty well. Some people will tell you to get the best of the best but, if what you have works use it. I feel confident in the Chrony F1's ability, due to the gunsmith has a F-class target framed that he won with his 6mm Dasher, so it has to be decently accurate. If your looking to go all out and want to be as precise as humanly possible with no budget look at Oehler 35p (500$) or the PVM-21 (749$). __________________ Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me." Last edited by 5RWill; April 19, 2011 at 03:36 PM.

April 19, 2011, 06:48 PM	#32
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Twins- For what you posted i have to agree 100% with you.It is not a life or death thing. When you are happy with the groups you are shooting there is nothing more than can be said. I pose my question to you.Are you happy enoough with those groups and if so,what keeps you shooting big bore instead of say 22 for cost?. I for one am never happy. I started with 2 inch groups at 200 yards(not good enough) shrank it down to 1.5 inch groups(not good enough). Finally got it down to 3/4 inch groups.(good enough). This all could have been done with out a chrono for sure,but a lot more guessing and wasted bullets. The chrono does more than just what you see on the screen(speed). It is a picture of your whole reloading process. 10 rounds you load,what is the deveation in them?.Did switching to a mag or bench rest primer make a difference. Did trying a new powder make a difference,COL,,did it make a difference. I guess im just one that likes to know all that is going on,not just were the bullet hits. Ever wonder why sometimes you have 3 or 4 shots real tight and one flyer??Was it you? was it the gun?was it just the bullet haveing 2 /10 ths gn more powder. Chrono would let you know these things. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

April 20, 2011, 11:34 AM	#35
Kevin Rohrer Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2010 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 1,049	I'd say that anyone who is serious about his reloading and/or shooting should have a chronogragh. __________________ Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, ARTCA, and American Legion. Caveat Emptor: Cavery Grips/AmericanGripz/Prestige Grips/Stealth Grips from Clayton, NC. He is a scammer

April 19, 2011, 02:41 PM	#27
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	I'll admit that I would like to have one. But it would be just for a fun thing to do. It wouldn't affect which loads shoot the most accurately. Before I spend $200 for a chronograph, I'll probably spend the money to buy the powder dispenser to match up with my Rangemaster 1500 scale. That's another thing that isn't necessary, but would be nice to have. I work with a guy who is a hunter and occasional shooter but not a reloader. He often asks me what the velocity is of whatever favorite load I developed the day before. He finds it hard to believe that I dodn't know the exact velocity but I do know the precise powder weight, primer, bullet, etc. I suppose if I had a chrono I'd be able to answer that question.

April 19, 2011, 03:54 PM	#30
LarryFlew Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2009 Location: Minnesota CZ fan Posts: 902	So much more info once you have one that I vote for a needed item. Makes it nice when working up a load or when checking a load to see how it compares to factory load of the same bullet. Also went with the guessing game but now that I have had one I'd have trouble going back to not using it when making up a load.

April 19, 2011, 05:09 PM	#31
twins Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2010 Posts: 393	Thank you all for your feedback....now I'm more confused than ever. :-) Since I don't own a chrono yet? (hence this thread), let me pose the following scenario to see how a chrono would help me (remember, I'm not loading for 400 yards+ shots nor BR competition shooting) Lets say I'm loading for 30-06 cartridge, IMR4350 powder (56 gr), Sierra SPBT165gr. The manufacturer's load data shows velocity of 2746. If this load is shooting 2.5" groups at 100 yards, I'll just adjust the powder load till my group(s) start shrinking. So far 57.2 gr with 165 gr bullets gets me within my goal (2-3" at 200 yds). In my mind, my powder load is well within the manufacturer's safe load data (start load 56 gr, max load 60 gr). 1) Why should I care what the velocity is? And if I have a chrono, at 2) what +/- of published velocity should I be concerned? 3) So with a chrono, the advantage would be for me to put my load velocity in a ballistic program so I can have an exact drop rate at each distance? I'm asking the above questions cause I rather spend $ on more powder/bullets/brass/primers/reloading accessories. If a chrono is a must in the reloading accessories department, mama isn't going to be happy (cause the Oehler looks like a good candidate). Thanks again for your feedback.

April 20, 2011, 11:39 AM	#36
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Me too WildjoiningthechorusAlaska ™©2002-2011

April 20, 2011, 01:30 PM	#37
sonick808 Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 396	i say yes but I'm a data fiend

April 20, 2011, 03:58 PM	#38
Clifford L. Hughes Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2011 Location: Southern Californis Posts: 795	Clifford L. Hughes Twins: When I purchased my Ohler conogrape I opened a new venue of fun. Although not necessary, I don't know why I didn't buy one sooner. The Ohler conograph and Ohler's ballistics and pressure programs give all the techincal information that a person will ever need. Semper Fi. Gunneery Sergeant Clifford L. Hughes USMC Retired

April 20, 2011, 05:43 PM	#40
twins Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2010 Posts: 393	Gunny Hughes, You're going to be the cause of my marital woes with comments like yours. $600 for the Oehler 35.....mama is going to put me in the dog-house.

April 20, 2011, 06:25 PM	#43
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	I think you're safe. When I get a new bullet or new powder that I want to mess with, I start with the max charge weight given by the powder manufacturer and load a cartridge that is 10% below that weight. And another cartridge that is 8% low, 6% low etc, until I have one that is just 2% below the published max. So I take those 5 newly loaded cartridges and start with the lowest and fire it, checking for sticky bolt lifts or obvious case problems. I don't pay much attention to primers, but I pay real close atttention to the bolt lift. If that last one extracts fine, then I know I'm going to be safe and I start working up 3 or 5 cartridge groups to see what is most accurate. With the liability concerns everyone has these days, I have not seen any obvious pressure signs in any of my rifles even when I get to the published maximums. But you never know so it's best to start with the lower weights first just to make sure.

April 20, 2011, 07:03 PM	#44
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	In one particular load in a 38sp revolver, I added 8 gr more powder than the published load for 357 mag. It was very loud and had tremendous recoil. I did not need to shoot my 44 mag for recoil with boxes of that ammo around. Then I shot it over the chronograph. 1173 with the original book load. 1155 fps with the extra 8 gr I was getting more recoil and noise from the gas, but the bullet was not going any faster. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

April 21, 2011, 05:56 PM	#46
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	That was with LIL'GUN. I think one can get the same effect with LONGSHOT, and almost get that effect with Power Pistol. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

April 21, 2011, 06:16 PM	#47
TheNatureBoy Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2007 Posts: 1,204	I say yes.

April 21, 2011, 06:22 PM	#48
MrWesson Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2010 Posts: 357	Some of us are not special and have outdoor ranges/backyards to shoot in. I am pretty much confined to indoor shooting ranges so I dont own a chrono.