Forced to Remove NRA Cap to Vote

[Double Naught Spy]

Well, I am sure we will see that if the poll folks were in error by having the guy remove his NRA cap, then the NRA will be all over it with a followup as they already have been in calling foul. If there is no foul on the part if the poll folks, I am sure the NRA will be silent on the matter or will claim the law is somehow unjust.

[Snyper]

Respectfully, I still think you are missing it. I agree with zxcvbob. The entire list of prohibited materials is modified by the leading adjective "campaign."

It SPECIFIES "newspapers" are prohibited

The commas mean they are talking about different things
These are all prohibited and different

nor shall any person distribute or display any campaign literature, newspaper, booklet, pamphlet, card, sign, paraphernalia, or any other written or printed matter of any kind

If all they meant was "campaign literature", they could have ended the sentence there.

But they didn't

It's a list of what you cannot "distribute or display"

Each item is seperate

It's very plain English

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Snyper

It's very plain English

Apparently it's not as plain as you want to make it out to be, or we wouldn't have been discussing what the law actually means for nearly a week. I happen to think it's plain English, too -- but I also don't think it says what you think it says. Dunno what your qualifications are, but I was an English minor in college, I'm a published author, and a professional editor and proof reader.

So I'd have to conclude that, no, it isn't "plain" English.

[Double Naught Spy]

Plain English does not mean that all readers will understand what is written, but that is certainly a significant goal of the movement for Plain English. Plain English isn't defined by the result, but by the attempt.

http://www.clearest.co.uk/editorsoftware/plain-english/
http://www.write.co.nz/Resources/A+d...n+English.html
http://grammar.about.com/od/pq/g/Plain-English-term.htm

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by DNS

Plain English does not mean that all readers will understand what is written, but that is certainly a significant goal of the movement for Plain English. Plain English isn't defined by the result, but by the attempt.

From the descriptions in your links, I don't thing "plain English" is defined by the attempt so much as by the fact.

"Plain English is clear, straightforward expression, using only as many words as are necessary. It is language that avoids obscurity, inflated vocabulary and convoluted sentence construction. It is not baby talk, nor is it a simplified version of the English language. Writers of plain English let their audience concentrate on the message instead of being distracted by complicated language. They make sure that their audience understands the message easily."

In general, any sentence that includes more than three or maybe four commas, with no colons or semi-colons, is almost certain to NOT be clear, for exactly the reason this law is not clear: it's difficult to figure out what modifies what.

One would hope that the people who write laws attempt to make the intent of the law clear, yet every year laws are tossed out by the courts as being "unconstitutionally vague." So it takes more than just an attempt to be able to (properly) classify something as "plain English."

{Edited to add}

http://johngarger.com/articles/writi...olarly-writing

As a copy editor I can tell you that the most misused punctuation in scholarly writing is the comma. The comma is used in so many cases in English that it is difficult to keep them straight. Coupled with the fact that most scholarly writers place pauses in their writing much like they place pauses in speech, the comma is often misused, misapplied, or ignored.

http://www.oxbridgeediting.co.uk/blo...es-commas-619/

What commas certainly do, whether by their presence or their absence, is to powerfully change the meaning of a sentence. ...

In lists, commas often separate different items from one another – a simple enough concept. However, accidentally missing out a comma will automatically having the effect of making the two consecutive terms it should separate seem like one item in the list,...

https://suite.io/cynthia-jones-shoeman/4mwt29e

Students might ask, "Can there be too much of a good thing?" In the case of commas, most instructors will resoundingly cry, "Yes!" Here are three instances of when commas are unnecessarily used.

[zincwarrior]

I'd still like to know why anybody would wear a hat inside the polling place. My mama taught me to take my hat off when I went inside. That would make this whole issue moot.

Txbob has the way of it.

[BarryLee]

Mr. Cobb has filed suit against Douglas County stating that his civil rights were violated.

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/27...ing-place-sues

Here’s a link to a statement from the Southeastern Legal Foundation and the actual complaint.

http://www.southeasternlegal.org/free-speech/

[FITASC]

We did not prohibit folks wearing NRA clothing or O Nama clothing. As a poll worker, WE could not wear anything political, but voters were free to do so.

[BarryLee]

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but wanted to post an update on how everything was finally resolved.

Mr. Cobb filed a law suit against Douglas County Georgia after being forced to remove his NRA hat to vote. County officials have now apologized and amended their policy stating that, “Election Policy says clothing or material related to a viewpoint or organization not on the ballot is not prohibited in the polling place”.

Mr. Cobb has dropped his law suit and says he is fine with the outcome.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local...debacle/nmzSN/

[4V50 Gary]

Thanks for the update. I wish he had pursued the lawsuit.

[44 AMP]

I wish he had pursued the lawsuit.

To what end??

They apologized. They amended the policy to (hopefully) eliminate a recurrence of what was, essentially a poll worker's bad judgment call.

What would be the point of pursuing it further, other than seeking money for "damages"? Which, I agree is sometimes warranted, but could be seen as mere greed, in this case. And, doing it to "punish" someone, or some group, after achieving the desired policy changes, is just vindictive.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

To what end??

I, too, wish he had pursued the lawsuit. I'm not convinced that the revised policy doesn't violate freedom of speech. I don't personally ever endorse (publicly) any candidate, so I don't wear tee shirts, hats, or campaign buttons. But I'm pretty certain I've seen voters wearing their "Vote for Joe" buttons in the polling place, and I have never seen any problem with that. Candidates have to stand more than 75 feet from the entrance to the polling place when they show up to smile and glad-hand the voters, but that's clearly electioneering and should be kept out of the polling place. Suzie Soccermom wearing a 1.375" diameter campaign button pinned to her sorority sweater doesn't seem to me to be something that should be prohibited. Even if the button is for one of the candidates on the ballot.

[FITASC]

I, too, wish he had pursued the lawsuit. I'm not convinced that the revised policy doesn't violate freedom of speech. I don't personally ever endorse (publicly) any candidate, so I don't wear tee shirts, hats, or campaign buttons. But I'm pretty certain I've seen voters wearing their "Vote for Joe" buttons in the polling place, and I have never seen any problem with that. Candidates have to stand more than 75 feet from the entrance to the polling place when they show up to smile and glad-hand the voters, but that's clearly electioneering and should be kept out of the polling place. Suzie Soccermom wearing a 1.375" diameter campaign button pinned to her sorority sweater doesn't seem to me to be something that should be prohibited. Even if the button is for one of the candidates on the ballot.

Must be a law in GA. Where I live, most voters are coming in wearing something. Candidates (and their signs and literature) must be 100' from the entrance. Our equipment for each polling place includes a 100' tape measure and position markers and it is strictly enforced.

[44 AMP]

Suzie Soccermom wearing a 1.375" diameter campaign button pinned to her sorority sweater doesn't seem to me to be something that should be prohibited. Even if the button is for one of the candidates on the ballot.

While you, or I might find that reasonable, the person running who's name is NOT on that button might find it "electioneering", particularly if it says "Vote for..."

that means lawyers, court, and all that, until a decision is reached, and that's always a mess. A standard has been set. The point here is that a poll worker made a decision, not in line with the standard.

Now the standard has been re-written to be (hopefully) clear, to prevent a future occurrence.

Isn't that a win??

[Mike Irwin]

"The precedent was set by Eric Holder and the President of the United States. NRA cap guy broke no laws; did nothing worse than the Black Panthers did. You can read that black-letter crap all day, but the NEW law is that the President of the United States and Attorney General have approved political garb to be worn by voters at polling places."

NEW law? Care to point us to the code? The executive order?

Oh, wait, there isn't one...

Here, read up on Federal Election LAW, not super secret tinfoil nutter squirrel speculation about 'THE 'BOMMA IS SENDING AGENTS TO GO INTO THE VOTING BOTH WITH US AND MAKE SURE WE CHOOSE THE 'RIGHT' CANDIDATE!!!!'

http://www.elections.state.md.us/law...deral_law.html

[Mike Irwin]

"Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but wanted to post an update on how everything was finally resolved."

Actually, this is a proper resurrection of an old thread.

Well done!


"To what end??"

He was wronged! His dignity was diminished! He needs to be made whole!

WHOLE!!!