F.LLI Pietta 1860 .44

[TomL]

Hello, I tried to post in replies to an earlier 1/2014 post regarding Pietta's but could not attach a pic so I'll start anew.

I have what I think is an old Pietta 1860 Army, 6 digit 404XXX, it is nice and tight in the action/works dept but after an hour or more of barrel scrubbing I was not to fond of the condition, the cylinder pin is worn but does not seem to hinder function upon lock up, the barrel retaining wedge needed fine tuning so it would not need drivin/forced out. It had/has some low grade gold plating on the cylinder is nickel plated with a fluted cylinder and came to me as you see it. I have not fired it...yet. Any of you that are knowledgable on this revolver I would sure like to get some info from you. Thanks

All attempts to upload a pic have failed again. Not sure why as I read all there was other than my pic is 3.55 mb but looks like all the other pics posted in the above mentioned thread from 1/7/14??

[Doc Hoy]

I believe Bill Akins has a pistol like yours and will have some good info for you.

The things you describe do not seem to be fatal problems, nor do they seem much out of the ordinary. Wedges in most Colts need to be worked to get to the "finger tight" status. Not certain about the cylinder pin wear. Photos of that would be helpful.

As regards photos, the best way to handle them is to store them on photobucket.com and then create a link.

That is the method that works best for me.

[TomL]

Doc, thanks for the advice and name. I'll keep fooling with the pics thing til I get it figured out. Is there a direct member to member way to contact Bill? I could email him a few pics and you too for that matter.

[Doc Hoy]

Got you PMs and I must confess I don't know why, Bill's address isn't coming up.

He is on here all the time and sooner or later he will read this and get back to you.

In the mean time I will attempt to raise him.

[Bill Akins]

Hi Tom and Doc.

Tom I received your e mail with the pic of your .44 cal Pietta nickel and gold wash plated 1860 with the fluted cylinder. It is exactly like the two I have right down to the faux ivory grip.

What would you like to know about it Tom?

I can tell you with certainty, that if you shoot it, it will flake the gold off the cylinder as it did with one of mine (so I never shot the other gold plated cylinder because of that). That's why I bought stainless (like) fluted cylinders from Cabelas. Made from a steel similar to stainless and cleans up easier and no worries about flaking from firing. I also changed out the gold washed hammers for case hardened hammers.

Your 1860 like mine, are brass frames nickel plated. So don't shoot maximum loads in them or else the cylinder will recoil too much and imprint on and ding the nickel plated brass recoil shield among other things, not to mention it could eventually cause the recoil shield to set off caps and chainfire. I shoot 22 grains in mine and would never load more than 25 grains.

Although all my old pics from "Webshots" are gone since "Webshots" closed down, (I use photobucket now), you still might get some info out of these links to posts of mine regarding those stainless (like) fluted cylinders I replaced the gold washed one with, and the unusual problem I had with the cam being totally worn out on the hammer caused no doubt by my quick draw and cocking practicing. Sorry the pics no longer show up from the now defunct webshots, but you might gain some knowledge about your 1860 that is like mine,.....just reading the text of these below links......

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=458526

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=483995

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=449337

If I can help you with anything else, don't hesitate to ask.

Bill.




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[TomL]

Thanks for the reply Bill. I checked for cylinder rebounding and none visable so I suspect the original owner/shooter might have been a bit lazee regarding cleaning the piece. Also the hammer has started flaking plating off, no big deal just is.

I would like to ask should the barrel be "slugged sized" prior to getting ammo, conical or ball style? I think somewhere I read these would use number 11 caps and not sure anymore what powder I'd want and would need a powder measure too.

Aside from that I have to say the look, feel of the 1860 Army to my thinking has to be one of, if not THE best looking handgun ever made!

[Bill Akins]

TomL wrote:
Thanks for the reply Bill. I checked for cylinder rebounding and none visable so I suspect the original owner/shooter might have been a bit lazee regarding cleaning the piece. Also the hammer has started flaking plating off, no big deal just is.

I would like to ask should the barrel be "slugged sized" prior to getting ammo, conical or ball style? I think somewhere I read these would use number 11 caps and not sure anymore what powder I'd want and would need a powder measure too.

Aside from that I have to say the look, feel of the 1860 Army to my thinking has to be one of, if not THE best looking handgun ever made!

My pleasure Tom. I'll try to address your latest questions too and add a few tips of my own as well.

A lack of proper cleaning has nothing to do with the cylinder "rebounding" and denting the recoil shield ring. I think you might have misunderstood me.

What I was trying to convey, is that if you load a brass frame BP revolver with as powerful a charge as you would load in a STEEL frame revolver, (say anywhere between 30 up to 40 grains),....it will cause the harder steel cylinder to "rebound"/recoil into the brass ring that is inside and cast into the recoil shield of the brass frame, and cause a denting of that brass ring by the steel cylinder, and after denting that ring, it can cause your steel cylinder on subsequent firings to recoil too far to the rear thus allowing the recoil shield to hit against and set off multiple caps at the same time. Not a problem with steel frame BP revolvers but definitely a problem for brass frames like yours and mine are. So we need to keep "Brassers" loaded down to no more than 25 grains in a .44 (I use 22 grains in my .44's that are just like yours). Also a heavy powder charge can loosen the arbor in a softer brass frame. Nothing wrong with a brass frame, you just have to keep the powder charges lower than in a steel frame and you'll be fine.

You don't need to "slug" the barrel. Just shoot .454 diameter pure lead round ball instead of .451 and you will be fine. You can shoot .451, but it doesn't shave as much a ring of lead off on loading and isn't generally as accurate as the .454 ball. I have read some people say that conical projectiles are more accurate, but I never had any accuracy/grouping problems just firing round ball, except both my revolvers shoot a little high....which is normal and understandable with the lousy sights they have. You can adjust your strike on the target somewhat by experimenting with different powder loads, but remember on your .44, not to go over a max of 25 grains (I use 22) to avoid damage to the brass frame. You find what (under 25 grain) powder load works best for your accuracy and stick with that. If you don't want to file or build up your front sights, (which you wouldn't want to do on your nickel plated Pietta) then get used to using "Kentucky windage" which is what most of us do when shooting BP revolvers that don't have adjustable sights (some do).


You can use #11 or #10 caps depending on the specs of your individual revolver's nipples. Sometimes the exact same model revolver (of different production runs but from the same manufacturer) will fit with one size cap better than it does with another different production run of another revolver of the exact same make and model from the exact same manufacturer. Try #10's and see if they fit because you want your caps as tight as they can be on the nipples to avoid chainfiring from the nipples. If they are too tight, you have several choices. Either buy replacement nipples that DO fit #10 caps, or else pinch #11 caps to make them fit on tighter. That latter option is commonly done and I frequently pinch #11's too, but be advised that when you pinch them, that creates a small channel on the side of the cap that flame from an adjacent cap going off can travel up to cause a chainfire. It is rare but it happens sometimes. Also you can buy #11 replacement nipples that fit the #11 caps better so you don't have to pinch them to be tight enough to stay on. Be aware that #11 caps are more commonly found and sometimes the #10's are harder to find. Also check out Treso nipples if you want to replace your nipples. Get a nipple wrench too and when you clean the revolver, remove the nipples, clean them with internally with a needle or thin wire, then put just a teeny bit of grease or anti-seize compound on the nipple threads so they won't corrode and freeze to the cylinder when you put them back in.

Ideally you should use 3F black powder or substitute. I have also used 2F (larger coarser grain), on a few occasions, but its larger grain throws off the volumetric measuring of my powder measure.

I would also advise getting a powder measure that is in increments of 5 grains instead of just in increments of 10 grains. Especially since you will be shooting a brass frame BP revolver and might want to load 22 grains like I do, and the 5 grain increment line of the powder measure is easier to get close to 22 grains than just a powder measure that only goes in 10 grain increments like 10, 20, 30, 40, etc.

Either use cornmeal over the powder before you lever in the ball, or use felt wads over the powder, or grease over the ball after loading. All to help prevent chainfires. The lubed felt wads or grease OVER the balls (crisco in a pinch) will keep the fouling soft and help prevent chainfires. But I don't use felt wads nor grease anymore. I just carefully load some cornmeal over my powder load and then load the ball. No greasy mess and works for me.

I agree with you. The 1860 is in my humble opinion one of the best looking black powder revolvers ever made. The beauty of that streamlined barrel and streamlined creeping loading lever was a big improvement on the esthetics over the earlier more square and boxy looking 1851 barrel and loading lever....in my opinion anyway.

One final thing. NEVER load directly from the flask. However unlikely, if a teeny ember were to still be lit from a previous shot, it could travel up the powder train (as you poured) and into the flask setting it off like a grenade in your hand. ALWAYS pour from the flask into a separate measure, then load that into the revolver. If an ember ignited that, all you'd get would be singed eyebrows.



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[TomL]

Thanks for the info Bill, very good valuable stuff there. I did not misunderstand what you were saying about cyl rebound, just meant it as an observation about my piece to pass on to you. The ugly pitting in the bore of the barrel was also an observation that I thought might be from a lack of cleaning in the revolvers past. Also why I asked about bore slugging.

I'll start a search around here or near here for the needed supplys to make some smoke, fire and noise. Thanks again. Tom

[Doc Hoy]

Bill could help you out.

[TomL]

Well I tried to get the necessary items/powder/ball/caps/nipple wrench and no one place, Gander/Dicks/Bass/Cabela or online stores had all and none listed caps. I would have to make trips to several stores so my 1860 will go back to "safe queen" for now.