March 10, 2011, 04:51 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 8, 2010
Posts: 140
|
Flintlock In-Line
Do any of you guys belong to the NMLRA? This month's magazine has an article on a flintlock in-line from the mid-1700's. I think it was German or eastern European. In any event pretty cool. A small flint was put on what would be the firing pin on a modern in-line. There was a trap door on top of the barrel behind the breech plug. The back side of the trap door was angled at 45 degrees and was the frizzen. In other words as the flint drove forward it hit the sloped trap door and pushed it up as it scraped against the steel and created sparks. At the back of the plug was a dished area to hold the priming powder- which was exposed when the trap door flipped up- firing the gun.
Pretty cool. Why didn't it replace the regular flintlock? Well the mechanism was superior but the maintenance was the problem- impossible to clean and bits of broken off flint could jam up the works. The firing pin had a rod/bolt- just like some modern in-lines, that was pulled back to cock the piece. |
March 10, 2011, 09:25 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 21, 2008
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,393
|
I read it. What gets me is that some people think in-lines are new. Ha!
|
March 11, 2011, 03:44 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2005
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 3,166
|
Cap & balls revolvers are pretty much inlines too.
|
March 11, 2011, 09:18 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 25, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,309
|
can I say "yuck" here?
I read it. There have been many variations and oddities throughout history. Most new ideas are not new at all. Yes, inlines existed in very small numbers 'back then'. They were generally just experimental.
Traditionalists, like me, who disdain today's inlines regret the lack of tradition. Those who buy and shoot those bubble packed, plastic stocked monstrosities do so only to extend their deer hunting season. I won't go on. I think the NMLRA, of which I am a member, has made a serious mistake endorsing (modern) inlines. |
March 11, 2011, 10:36 AM | #5 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 8,783
|
Quote:
During our Hunter Ed. Classes, I promote "Muzzleloading". Obviously I include In-Lines but like you, my passion is in my side-cockers and that includes Rock-Crushers. If the state ever required us to only teach In-Lines, I would stop teaching. Quote:
JMHO and as always; Be Safe !!! |
||
March 11, 2011, 11:19 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 21, 2008
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,393
|
First let me say this. I just love the side locks, Flint being my first love. Love
the revolvers also. 1851 Navy. When I started shooting serious, I look at some old pictures of the pistol line at Friendship say back in the late 40's and throughout the 50's. What kind of pistols did I see? INLINES. They been shooting these for a very long time. So that was what I went with. Every once in a while at the local level, someone might say, Oh I see you using a inline. Like it's a bad thing. They usually get over it. Those who make those remarks have not been to Friendship. Anyway I love them all. At least were shooting. I even have pellet guns I shoot. Got one rubber band gun that shoots a little low and to the left. Have to work on that one. Not all inlines are ugly. Here is one I have that pertty much dominates the line at Friendship |
March 11, 2011, 12:20 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 25, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,309
|
Yes they use them on the pistol range at Friendship.
Others that look like Flash Gordon's ray gun have also been used. I have always objected to them, including those converted from Mod. 1911s. But, I kept quiet. It is hard to stop a tsunami by flailing your hands. I think it is a bad thing and I didn't get over it. I don't participate in 'traditional' activities to see others going space age. BTW, my response to Pahoo is by PM. |
March 11, 2011, 02:41 PM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 8,783
|
Quote:
Be Safe !!! |
|
March 11, 2011, 03:33 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,772
|
Just a small point of order:
There are a significant number of incidents in my several years of experience in which a hunter has purchased an in-line muzzleloader to extend his deer hunting opportunities and eventually turned to sidelocks to use. I am not a fan of in-line muzzleloaders; most of the ones I've had experience with have been inexpensive, simple and reliable but not appealing to me. However, allowing their use in an extended season has clearly resulted in putting more hunters in the woods for a longer period of time, and from a strict game management point of view that's a plus. But it's also a plus because some people who would never have tried muzzleloaders otherwise took up an in-line because they're cheap and reliable and then moved up to traditional muzzleloaders when they found they're not smelly, hard to clean, expensive, etc. That's just a simple fact, one that's rarely acknowledged but true nonetheless. Notice I didn't say ALL in-line owners, and I admit I don't know if it's 50% or 1%. But it has happened and will continue to happen. And that's a good thing. One of the things we can do to increase the numbers of that phenomenon is to welcome the in-line owners to the sport and educate them to the joys of the more traditional guns. There are those among us, not many, but some, who insist on an 'elitist' attitude; they treat in-line owners with disdain at every encounter, and I can't help thinking that does us no good in the long run. I don't expect to convert anyone with the above, but it's a point I feel needs to be made. Thanks for taking the time to read it. |
March 11, 2011, 03:44 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 8, 2010
Posts: 140
|
Well, in any event if was an interestng gun and when I first started reading the article I was thinking- why didn't this system replace the side lock??? and then the author stated the downfall was the maintenance. In any event I find a lot of the odd ball mechanisms sort of interesting and thought I'd mention it.
|
March 11, 2011, 04:01 PM | #11 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
|
Quote:
|
|
March 11, 2011, 05:17 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 25, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,309
|
mykeal, my experience is very few inliners convert to traditional. From a hunting/sport point of view, I have a few other objections. In my state of Arkansas, and I suspect most others, the muzzle loading season was created to give traditionalists an opportunity to have a quiet, low pressure hunt before the crowded modern gun season. That is gone. It is simply another season.
Many (most? all?) inliners out there think they have long range killers with those pellet and sabot goofy guns. I believe there are many more wounded deer during the muzzle loading season than during modern gun. They all think they are Jim Shockey. Guys I have talked with think their funny guns are sighted in at 200 yards right out of the bubble wrap. The game and fish department is happy to have them come. It is good for herd management and the state economy in general. I can't argue that. I think (for Arkansas, at least) the time has come to eliminate the muzzle loading season. That way, those of us who are stuck in a 250 year old time warp can still hunt the way we want to, albiet with those funny orange vests) and not have to get puckered up over the sight of those strange looking, plastic stocked toys what shoot pellets and sabots. |
March 11, 2011, 08:36 PM | #13 | ||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,772
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I offer you an alternative to getting Quote:
Quote:
I teach the muzzleloading section of Hunter Safety Education. I make it a point every class to pick out one student planning to shoot an in-line and convince them to try a traditional gun for that year's season. Sometimes I win and sometimes I don't but that doesn't keep me from trying. how about helping me out? |
||||||||
March 11, 2011, 08:42 PM | #14 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 8,783
|
Quote:
But you have to admit that good Traditionals are getting harder to find and most go for big bucks. In-Line on the other hand, are dime a dozen and getting cheaper. i have heard that 90% of the M/L business, is in, In-Lines. ..... Be Safe !!! |
|
March 11, 2011, 09:16 PM | #15 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
|
Quote:
|
|
March 12, 2011, 09:54 AM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 25, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,309
|
mykeal asked me: "How about it - are you willing to be an ambassador for our sport?"
I am and have been for more than forty years. I am a former NMLRA Field Rep. I have helped form and charter 16 clubs in Arkansas a few more in other states. Arkansas NMLRA membership peaked when I was a Rep. I have written many articles for Muzzle Blasts and the old Buckskin Report. I was an NMLRA safety instructor and had a small part in writing the original manual. I have spoken countless times to civic groups and schools. There is probably a lot more but my tired old brain can't recall it all right now. Muzzle loading and early American history have been my passion for much of my life. I have appeared in three doumentary films on early history. I fly a Bennington flag in front of my home. Oh,....lots more. Admittedly, slowing down. Age and living on SS don't cooperate with my 'wants' as much as I would like. Any more questions? |
March 12, 2011, 01:40 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 8, 2010
Posts: 140
|
Okay- don't get mad. I admit I shoot both. I held off of the in-lines for a long time but the hunter in me sort of won out. My eyes can't make out antlers in some situations and a scope is a big help.
BUT........... The first time I went to the range I ended up shooting 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards. I couldn't believe it. That is as good or better than most of my modern cartridge rifles. Some of the other guys at the range were equally amazed. That is NO CREDIT to me- I was shooting off of sandbags- all the credit goes to the firearm. In any event I had to ask myself- does a rifle of this capability really belong in the muzzle loading season? After all it is as accurate as any other rifle. I think the big danger with the in-lines is if they end up adversely impacting the regular muzzle loading season. I know that some states don't allow in-lines and if my state followed suite I wouldn't be that upset, it was just that other guys were bringing in big bucks with in-lines and I had missed a few with my sidelock and, well, errr...... I ended up with an in-line. Still, I have issues. As I said if the state banned in-lines it would actually be ok with me- everyone would be back to equal footing. |
March 12, 2011, 02:55 PM | #18 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,772
|
Quote:
Now I really don't understand why you insist on treating the population of in-line shooters with such disdain. With all your experience in promoting bp shooting and hunting writing off a complete class of potential new recruits really puzzles me. It makes as much sense to me as a smokeless shooter saying he won't try bp because it's all smelly, dirty, too much trouble, etc. We're cutting our own throats here. |
|
March 12, 2011, 03:10 PM | #19 |
Junior member
Join Date: November 9, 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 260
|
Myke,
.....It makes as much sense to me as a smokeless shooter saying he won't try bp because it's all smelly, dirty, too much trouble, etc..... That's what they DO say! |
March 12, 2011, 05:38 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,772
|
Yes, it is. And it makes as much sense as when we treat in-line shooters with disdain. You did get my point, didn't you?
|
March 12, 2011, 07:03 PM | #21 |
Junior member
Join Date: November 9, 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 260
|
I got your point, I don't agree with it, but I got it.
|
March 12, 2011, 07:25 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 21, 2008
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,393
|
I'm feeling better already.
|
March 12, 2011, 08:58 PM | #23 |
Staff
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 21,824
|
Joe Valentin is an excellent gunbuilder, knife maker, engraver, powder horn maker and bag maker. I want to grow up and be Joe Valentin. Anyhow, there's a similar gun at the Missouri State History Museum in St. Louis.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe! |
March 13, 2011, 08:01 AM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 25, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,309
|
mykeal, I don't want to get into an extended debate.
My passion is remembering Early American History and the guns that brought us freedom. The NMLRA was founded to remember the old traditions. Lay a finely crafted flintlock longrifle next to a discount store in-line. Which one will make your heart flutter? You know. It would probably take a psychologist to figure out why I react to strongly to the in-lines. It might be they represent so many of the values we are losing in America and make many, myself included, fear for our future. Add to that, I'm old, I'm a curmudgeon and stubborn. (But, please keep it a secret, I have spent many hours and days coaching, coddling and helping others with their guns, regardless of what kind. I have a reputation to protect. ) |
March 13, 2011, 08:05 AM | #25 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
|
Quote:
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|