Lightest possible 20ga load

BoogieMan · July 30, 2012, 08:46 PM

By lightest I am referring to recoil. Took my 7y/o daughter to launch skeet for me and her brothers this weekend. She got bored quickly and insisted on trying it. No youth gun with me so I shouldered the old BPS and she swung and pulled the trigger. Now she is hooked. I have an 870 wingmaster youth lightweight. Was mine than my sons. He outgrew it and just moved into a Browning Gold. Anyway I want to let my daughter try the Rem 20ga. It has a soft recoil pad but the 7/8oz low brass I have still packs a pretty good wallop for someone who isnt 60lbs yet. I dont want to buy a 410 or 28 I want her to learn on the gun I started with. Any suggestions? If I find someone willing to reload for me how low of a load can I go? I dont want her to develop a flinch or get scared of guns.

Smitty in CT · July 30, 2012, 09:26 PM

Fioccchi "20LITE" Trainer

3/4 oz
1050 fps

Very soft shooting rounds...

They won't cycle most autoloaders, but that won't be an issue for a while...

BoogieMan · July 31, 2012, 06:02 AM

Thanks. I am going to go check with my LGS today. Hopefully I can grab a box to try out.

Bailey Boat · July 31, 2012, 09:47 AM

If you're a reloader, Claybuster is now producing a 20 ga, 3/4 oz wad that has proven itself to reduce recoil without any noticeable reduction in effectivness. I switched to the 3/4 oz loads before they produced the wads and just lived with the dished crimps when using 7/8 oz wads. With the new wads the crimps are perfect and my skeet scores haven't dropped at all.....

BoogieMan · August 1, 2012, 06:01 AM

I am ordering a box of the 20LITE today. I tried to find them at my LGS but notta. While I was in there I also looked at the Rossi 22/410 single shot. Interestingly the salesman told me that they tend to recoil pretty bad with 410's. Any experience with them?

cerberus65 · August 1, 2012, 06:27 AM

We have the Rossi .22/.410 combo. Recoil is always a subjective thing but I would mostly agree with the salesman at your LGS. The Rossi is pretty light and I was surprised by the amount of recoil. It wasn't "pretty bad" but it was more than I had hoped (son was pretty small at the time).

oneounceload · August 1, 2012, 07:43 AM

When you buy a light gun, ANY load will have more recoil than a heavy gun.

For kids, get the heaviest gun they can handle and make sure it FITS - even if that means cutting the stock- that will help mitigate recoil

zippy13 · August 1, 2012, 06:01 PM

Quote:

We have the Rossi .22/.410 combo.

I have a little Rossi lever carbine in .357 Mag. I was surprised by it's recoil. As my friend, 1-oz, said: light guns recoil more. We all have to observe the laws of physics.

BoogieMan · August 2, 2012, 06:40 AM

I am waiting on a box of 20LITE to come in. I am going to give that a try. Im not real optimistic it will be light enough. I think the reality she will have is that she is just to little for more than a .22.
What are your thoughts about porting the barrel on the 20ga and then using the 20LITE. I have shot ported guns but never with comparable loads side by side with a unported gun. Also considered buying a SA gun for her. But that means blowing another $600+ on a gun that will get outgrown.

BigJimP · August 2, 2012, 10:45 AM

I think you've finally hit on the real issue here....she's your daughter...but 7 is awful young ....and most all kids that are 7 don't have the upper body strength to really hold, swing or fire a shotgun of any size.

Some kids are an exception.../ some kids grow faster....

The fact that she wants to do it ...is a good thing / but coming up with another game -- with a .22 at that age is probably a better idea / something static ---like putting clay targets on a stick and let her shoot at them or something.

I have a bunch of young grandkids...from 3 to 21 .../ but when a lot of them were going thru this 7 - 12 age group ...what I did was use a 7lb gun I had ..and said ok, if you can hold it properly, shoulder it properly - and fire 2 shells at a fixed target without knocking yourself off balance, etc...then you can come out to the clays range. It was built around safety ...and they all understood the reasoning ...and they knew what it took to "come of age" to go out ...

Some of them lost interest as they got older...some didn't / some tried it a couple of times / none of them really got into it very much.

My personal choice for a first gun for them to shoot was a 28ga ...around 7 lbs...like a Browning BPS Hunter pump gun ...

http://www.browning.com/products/cat...2&tid=211&bg=x

3/4 oz of shot, 1100 fps...the gun retails for around $ 625 or so these days ...but its a good investment..good quail gun, etc... I like ported shotguns / but it doesn't reduce recoil much - if any ---its primary issue, often debated on here, is I say it reduces muzzle jump between 1st and 2nd shots.

I think a single shot shotgun is a waste of money ...the BPS Hunter would be a better investment. You didn't bring it up ...but a .410 is a really bad idea...balistically it shoots a smaller pattern, for a new shooter it can get really frustrating...heck, for me, the .410 is frustrating...

She's your daughter...but for my grandkids...they only got to go when they could show they had the strength to earn it.

My own history - I was big game hunting and bird hunting when I was about 8 or so ...and didn't kill my first Elk until I was about 10 yrs old ...but I remember those seasons of being able to go along, help track, keep quiet...before I was able to carry a gun in the field and really hunt. Those days were special too...and I was a big kid, skinny, but around 6' tall at about 8 - 9 yrs old. I got a nice used 16ga, bolt action shotgun, I think when I was 8 ...and still have it ....and I killed a lot of grouse with it as a kid. Its a really light gun ...around 5 lbs...and because its so light / the recoil is "Significant" ....I made it work / but I'm smarter now ...and wouldn't do that to an 8 yr old today ...even one who wanted it badly. Its ok to have them wait ...and earn it. Good luck...however you decide.

BoogieMan · August 2, 2012, 05:38 PM

BigJim- Sadly I think your right. She is not even big for her age. She is on the short side and cant make 50lbs soaking wet. I remember when I was about 10 or so I begged to shoot my Dads 7600 in 30-06. He reluctantly let me. It kicked the snot out of me. It took me many years and rounds down range to get rid of the flinch. I think if I let her try bigger guns the same could happen.
I will keep her on the rimfire for a couple more years. Lots of fun to be had there.

BigJimP · August 2, 2012, 06:05 PM

I think you're making a smart choice...

Dave McC · August 2, 2012, 07:42 PM

I teach lots of kids. I do not like them to start until they're at least 100 lbs or so. At that point, they are usually strong enough to hold things up.

I suggest waiting a bit for shotguns. But, a 22 and some tin cans= fun....

couillon · August 3, 2012, 05:20 PM

There is another one. I started my son on this one. The winlite target shells from winchester at only 980 fps.

Joe Rush · August 6, 2012, 09:08 PM

I kinda in the same boat as teh original poster. I have a 20ga youth rossie and would like to load a light 1/2oz load for my soon to be 7yr old. I know that I would have to add paper spacers to the wad cup. I've read where they have perfected an 1/2oz load that still shoots 1200fps with a 6lbs recoil on a 6lbs gun, but no load data was supplied. I would like to have the load data if anyone has it.

Of course I would perfect the load before I would let my son shoot it. Safty first.

Thanks
Joe

July 30, 2012, 08:46 PM	#1
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	Lightest possible 20ga load By lightest I am referring to recoil. Took my 7y/o daughter to launch skeet for me and her brothers this weekend. She got bored quickly and insisted on trying it. No youth gun with me so I shouldered the old BPS and she swung and pulled the trigger. Now she is hooked. I have an 870 wingmaster youth lightweight. Was mine than my sons. He outgrew it and just moved into a Browning Gold. Anyway I want to let my daughter try the Rem 20ga. It has a soft recoil pad but the 7/8oz low brass I have still packs a pretty good wallop for someone who isnt 60lbs yet. I dont want to buy a 410 or 28 I want her to learn on the gun I started with. Any suggestions? If I find someone willing to reload for me how low of a load can I go? I dont want her to develop a flinch or get scared of guns. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

July 30, 2012, 09:26 PM	#2
Smitty in CT Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2006 Location: Moodus, CT Posts: 590	Fioccchi "20LITE" Trainer 3/4 oz 1050 fps Very soft shooting rounds... They won't cycle most autoloaders, but that won't be an issue for a while... __________________ Smitty "The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." -- Gen. George Patton

July 31, 2012, 06:02 AM	#3
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	Thanks. I am going to go check with my LGS today. Hopefully I can grab a box to try out. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

August 1, 2012, 06:01 AM	#5
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	I am ordering a box of the 20LITE today. I tried to find them at my LGS but notta. While I was in there I also looked at the Rossi 22/410 single shot. Interestingly the salesman told me that they tend to recoil pretty bad with 410's. Any experience with them? __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

August 1, 2012, 06:27 AM	#6
cerberus65 Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2008 Posts: 384	We have the Rossi .22/.410 combo. Recoil is always a subjective thing but I would mostly agree with the salesman at your LGS. The Rossi is pretty light and I was surprised by the amount of recoil. It wasn't "pretty bad" but it was more than I had hoped (son was pretty small at the time). __________________ previously known as Kerberos

July 31, 2012, 09:47 AM	#4
Bailey Boat Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: NC Posts: 365	If you're a reloader, Claybuster is now producing a 20 ga, 3/4 oz wad that has proven itself to reduce recoil without any noticeable reduction in effectivness. I switched to the 3/4 oz loads before they produced the wads and just lived with the dished crimps when using 7/8 oz wads. With the new wads the crimps are perfect and my skeet scores haven't dropped at all.....

August 1, 2012, 07:43 AM	#7
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	When you buy a light gun, ANY load will have more recoil than a heavy gun. For kids, get the heaviest gun they can handle and make sure it FITS - even if that means cutting the stock- that will help mitigate recoil

August 2, 2012, 06:40 AM	#9
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	I am waiting on a box of 20LITE to come in. I am going to give that a try. Im not real optimistic it will be light enough. I think the reality she will have is that she is just to little for more than a .22. What are your thoughts about porting the barrel on the 20ga and then using the 20LITE. I have shot ported guns but never with comparable loads side by side with a unported gun. Also considered buying a SA gun for her. But that means blowing another $600+ on a gun that will get outgrown. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown Last edited by BoogieMan; August 2, 2012 at 06:47 AM.

August 2, 2012, 10:45 AM	#10
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I think you've finally hit on the real issue here....she's your daughter...but 7 is awful young ....and most all kids that are 7 don't have the upper body strength to really hold, swing or fire a shotgun of any size. Some kids are an exception.../ some kids grow faster.... The fact that she wants to do it ...is a good thing / but coming up with another game -- with a .22 at that age is probably a better idea / something static ---like putting clay targets on a stick and let her shoot at them or something. I have a bunch of young grandkids...from 3 to 21 .../ but when a lot of them were going thru this 7 - 12 age group ...what I did was use a 7lb gun I had ..and said ok, if you can hold it properly, shoulder it properly - and fire 2 shells at a fixed target without knocking yourself off balance, etc...then you can come out to the clays range. It was built around safety ...and they all understood the reasoning ...and they knew what it took to "come of age" to go out ... Some of them lost interest as they got older...some didn't / some tried it a couple of times / none of them really got into it very much. My personal choice for a first gun for them to shoot was a 28ga ...around 7 lbs...like a Browning BPS Hunter pump gun ... http://www.browning.com/products/cat...2&tid=211&bg=x 3/4 oz of shot, 1100 fps...the gun retails for around $ 625 or so these days ...but its a good investment..good quail gun, etc... I like ported shotguns / but it doesn't reduce recoil much - if any ---its primary issue, often debated on here, is I say it reduces muzzle jump between 1st and 2nd shots. I think a single shot shotgun is a waste of money ...the BPS Hunter would be a better investment. You didn't bring it up ...but a .410 is a really bad idea...balistically it shoots a smaller pattern, for a new shooter it can get really frustrating...heck, for me, the .410 is frustrating... She's your daughter...but for my grandkids...they only got to go when they could show they had the strength to earn it. My own history - I was big game hunting and bird hunting when I was about 8 or so ...and didn't kill my first Elk until I was about 10 yrs old ...but I remember those seasons of being able to go along, help track, keep quiet...before I was able to carry a gun in the field and really hunt. Those days were special too...and I was a big kid, skinny, but around 6' tall at about 8 - 9 yrs old. I got a nice used 16ga, bolt action shotgun, I think when I was 8 ...and still have it ....and I killed a lot of grouse with it as a kid. Its a really light gun ...around 5 lbs...and because its so light / the recoil is "Significant" ....I made it work / but I'm smarter now ...and wouldn't do that to an 8 yr old today ...even one who wanted it badly. Its ok to have them wait ...and earn it. Good luck...however you decide.

August 2, 2012, 05:38 PM	#11
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	BigJim- Sadly I think your right. She is not even big for her age. She is on the short side and cant make 50lbs soaking wet. I remember when I was about 10 or so I begged to shoot my Dads 7600 in 30-06. He reluctantly let me. It kicked the snot out of me. It took me many years and rounds down range to get rid of the flinch. I think if I let her try bigger guns the same could happen. I will keep her on the rimfire for a couple more years. Lots of fun to be had there. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; August 2, 2012 at 07:10 PM. Reason: Language

August 2, 2012, 06:05 PM	#12
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I think you're making a smart choice...

August 2, 2012, 07:42 PM	#13
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	I teach lots of kids. I do not like them to start until they're at least 100 lbs or so. At that point, they are usually strong enough to hold things up. I suggest waiting a bit for shotguns. But, a 22 and some tin cans= fun....

August 3, 2012, 05:20 PM	#14
couillon Member Join Date: August 3, 2012 Posts: 58	There is another one. I started my son on this one. The winlite target shells from winchester at only 980 fps.

August 6, 2012, 09:08 PM	#15
Joe Rush Member Join Date: July 10, 2009 Posts: 16	I kinda in the same boat as teh original poster. I have a 20ga youth rossie and would like to load a light 1/2oz load for my soon to be 7yr old. I know that I would have to add paper spacers to the wad cup. I've read where they have perfected an 1/2oz load that still shoots 1200fps with a 6lbs recoil on a 6lbs gun, but no load data was supplied. I would like to have the load data if anyone has it. Of course I would perfect the load before I would let my son shoot it. Safty first. Thanks Joe