Traveling Through Anti-Gun States

[JustThisGuy]

Sometimes we have to drive through an anti-gun state such as Illinois, New Jersey, New York or California while going somewhere else (or just to visit someone there). In the past, I have avoided carrying for the entire trip because of just one state.

Is there a practice that could get the handgun through an anti-gun state that is likely to be universally legal, such as disassembling the handgun and keeping it in a locked container in the trunk, or some such other method?

If so, then I might be able to carry legally in the surrounding states and then stop, disassemble and store while in the anti-gun state, then re-assemble once into a gun friendly state where my state's Concealed Carry Permit is honored.

[ScottRiqui]

For interstate travel, "unloaded and locked in the trunk" is fine. If you stop for longer than it takes to get gas or have a meal, you may become subject to some additional state & local laws since at that point you'll no longer be simply transiting through the state.

[FlyFish]

ScottRiqui's synopsis is correct. The applicable statute is the Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986, specifically the so-called "safe passage" provision. If you'd like more details you can Google those terms and get lots of hits.

[Shane Tuttle]

I think even when you stop to eat or fuel up you're still covered under the "safe-passage" issue. I believe it's the ultimate intended destination that keeps you blanketed under the Act...

[JustThisGuy]

I understand that if you are only stopping for gas or food you are ok, but when crossing a state like California from Arizona to Oregon you will have to stay overnight. Additionally, there may be times when one wants to visit relatives for a day or two.

Is it ok to have a handgun broken down and locked in the trunk or is that a violation? I understand that it may be considered so in NJ or NY for example.

[Mike Irwin]

Unfortunately, there have been numerous, egregious violations of the Safe Passage act by states like New Jersey over the years.

You should be OK, but if you encounter someone who decides to make your life hell, the act isn't as strong as it could be, unfortunately.

[ScottRiqui]

I understand that if you are only stopping for gas or food you are ok, but when crossing a state like California from Arizona to Oregon you will have to stay overnight. Additionally, there may be times when one wants to visit relatives for a day or two.

To be safe, I would assume that you're not going to have "Safe Passage" protections during an overnight stay, although you might - the provision doesn't explicitly define what an "extended stop" is. And I would certainly forget about using Safe Passage if you're going to stay with relatives "for a day or two". At that point, you're going to have to drill down into the state and local laws, because since you're no longer "just passing through", you're subject to every one of them.

[JustThisGuy]

Thanks very much for the excellent help.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by ScottRiqui

To be safe, I would assume that you're not going to have "Safe Passage" protections during an overnight stay, although you might - the provision doesn't explicitly define what an "extended stop" is.

The FOPA doesn't even mention "extended stop." In fact, it doesn't mention "stop" at all.

Originally Posted by FOPA

2010 US Code
Title 18 Crimes and Criminal Procedure
PART I —CRIMES (§§ 1—2725)
CHAPTER 44 —FIREARMS (§§ 921—931)
§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

Any discussion of "extended stop" is either confusing a state law with the FOPA (which specifically says it supersedes state law), or someone extrapolating their own opinions onto what the law actually says.

My view is that, if I'm driving from Maine to California, I'm going to have to stop for sleep at least three to five times, and those overnights are in the normal course of the trip -- as long as I just stop at a motel at or near a highway interchange. On the other hand, if my route is I-40 and I take a 2-day detour 75 miles north of the highway to visit great aunt Milicent -- that ends one "trip" and starts a second one when I depart Aunt Milicent's house to continue on to California.

[ScottRiqui]

I already said that the FOPA doesn't define "extended stop", but that doesn't mean that the concept doesn't need to be addressed when discussing the "safe passage" provision.

I don't think anyone would claim that you don't retain your safe passage protections during a food or gas stop. Further, I don't think that anyone can seriously claim that you would retain your safe passage protections during a three-week stopover in a non gun-friendly state.

Without a firm definition, there's a gray area where you have to tread carefully, and any decisions by a court are going to be based on case law rather than the statute itself. Personally, I agree with you that an overnight stop for rest probably doesn't strip you of your protections. Since you can only safely travel so far in a day, periodic rest stops (just like stops for food and fuel) are an integral part of interstate travel.

[Rifleman1776]

I hate that we even have to worry about matters like this.
Bottom line, as I see it, is to not do anything that might attract the attention of local law enforcement.

[Don P]

Personally I would not venture into NJ, or NY with a handgun or long gun.
NJ has been known to confiscate firearms during traffic stops and you will need much time and money to retrieve your property plus jail time
Remember NYC has the Sullivan Law.
Just my opinion and growing up in NYC I have no desire to return to the northeast.

[hermannr]

Think about this: When we go on a trip our ultimate destination is to get back home...everywhere in between we are traveling. We may stop for a day or two here or there, or even a week..we have friends and relatives all over the US and Canada but the whole time we are "traveling". As was stated, it really is not safe to run the length of California or width of Montana, in one day (though I have done so). IMHO, if you are visiting at an intermedate stop, you are still "traveling" per the federal law.

I know, I do the same thing...If we expect to stay with my wifes relatives in NY for a week, I just leave my carry at home, even though I can get to 30 miles of their house legally. I also make sure that our visits to the Canadian relatives take place on the same unarmed trip, Going armed into Canada is just not going to happen without a whole lot of paperwork and planning that I won't put up with.

[CaptainObvious]

Thr best advice is to leave the firearm at home. There have been quite a few cases of well intentioned firearms owners in the same situation arrested and prosecuted. Although there is the Safe Passage Act it is practically ignored in those states. If you are stopped in those states and they find a firearm they will find a way to arrest you and let the judge figure out the rest.

[Aguila Blanca]

Although there is the Safe Passage Act it is practically ignored in those states. If you are stopped in those states and they find a firearm they will find a way to arrest you and let the judge figure out the rest.

This is untrue. ALL of the widely-publicized arrests in NY and NJ in the past few years have involved people who were NOT covered by the FOPA, with the exception of Gregg Revell, the man who was arrested at Newark Airport after spending a night in an airport hotel due to a missed connection. And the problem there is that the drafters of the FOPA weren't thinking about air travel (or bus or train travel) when they wrote the law -- this was in 1968 and the safe travel provision was an afterthought, and all they were thinking about was individuals transporting their guns in their own private cars. Gregg Revell should have been covered, but due to the automobile-specific language of the FOPA you can see why/how an anti-gun agency like the NY/NJ Port Authority could twist it to claim he wasn't covered.

The nursing student who was arrested in NYC? Not covered by FOPA because her possession of the gun in NYC wasn't legal. The Tea Party lawyer from CA who was arrested at the airport when leaving NY to return to CA? Also not covered, because he had spent several days in NYC illegally possessing a handgun.

Let's face it -- New York state is a complete barrier between the states west of NY and all of the New England states. If you want to visit New England, you somehow have to traverse NY state. My brother is in CT and my sister is in NH. I have carry permits from both states. I transport up the NJ Turnpike in strict accord with the FOPA (with one exception-- see below), and I skirt around NYC into CT. I haven't been stopped so the waters have not been tested, but I don't think I would be arrested if stopped.

FWIW, NJ state law echoes the FOPA language almost exactly, so if you are traveling through NJ by car I doubt there would be any problem, especially on the Turnpike, which is patrolled by the State Police. The language of the NJ version is right on the NJSP web site. The caveat is that NJ changed one important word: Where the FOPA says the firearm "OR" the ammunition must be in a locked container, NJ says "AND." So I transport any firearms in their own locked cases, and I put ammo in an old Craftsman mechanic's tool box and padlock the hasp. (I drive an SUV, so I don't have a separate trunk.)

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

How I would handle on my own: I'd call the States Attorneys Office in each State I planned on traveling thru. before making the actual trip

1. Ask if my C.C.W. Permit is Valid in that State?

2. Ask for proper procedure recognized by their Law Enforcement for a non-Residents weapons storage. In his/her vehicle? (mention: hand gun)

3. Ask for documentation on this subject to be sent to my address Via: US Mail, Email, or Fax.

4. Note the time, date, and contact persons (full) name if possible.)

5. I personally would not rely on any Blanket Agreement for protection.

6. If not allowed to cross a States Border with weapon secured or not. I would leave the weapon at home. Or find a different route around that State. >Let Common Sense prevail.<

This is the way I would handle this subject in my own behalf. SSMcG

[CaptainObvious]

I know its technically legal to transport firearms through NJ and NY but I also know in those states they will give you trouble for doing so. Lets say you absolutely have to do it then I would partially disassemble them, put them in two seperate locked steel boxes and then lock them down further in another container placed in the trunk. An Army duffel with a padlock comes to mind as a good second container. I would make sure there was no doubt in anyones mind the firearms were being transported. Then I would set the cruise control right on the speed limit and if anyone ever asked if they could search my vehicle the answer would be no. Otherwise I would avoid hose states entirely.

[danez71]

Unloaded locked in a case in fine for CA. The ammo CAN be in the same locked case.

Dispite what some people (not in this thread...yet) want to spew... CA does not randomly pull people over and ask about guns.

In fact, Ive never ever been asked if there is ANY type of weapon in my truck (no trunk) when ive been pulled over even when clocked at 92 (stupid me) on a desert road that only comes from AZ with AZ license plate and DL.

[boostedtt91]

Its stupid that your CC permit isn't good for every state, which hopefully someday that will change. For me, if im traveling a far distance going through unknown areas, thats when i would want to have a gun with me for protection more than ever.

[langenc]

I have had to traverse ILLinois.. A safe passage is 'not having to set foot on ILLinois concrete. Gas up, use rest room and get going.

Notify travelers bureaus that you made it and why..

Would like to visit, with pickup camper, New England one day but I guess it will never happen.

[SilentScreams]

My opinion: If you have the handgun slide locked open and carry the ammunition in an entirely different area of the vehicle. Such as your pistol in the trrunk and your ammo in a locked container in the console (Which has been defined in some court cases as being a case all by itself) you should be fine. Unless the policeman just feels like writing a ticket and assigning a court date, in which case, nothing will save you.

[Flopsweat]

I seem to recall hollowpoints being illegal in NJ. Not sure how FOPA addresses this, but I've heard some horror stories. I suppose I could look them up if it's important to anyone.

[youngunz4life]

sortof makes the anti national carryers think (@ least a little).

to quote above(paraphrase):
"I have left gun home during trip because of some of these states"

some of these states' government workers, officers of the state, etc answer to their state and this can make the states differ greatly. It allows a federal transport law to be abused because there is a great lack of federal law within their state to begin with. An accepted(forced to be recognized national carry law which would be tested and upheld in court cases)Natinal CCW would put an end to this nonsense. The bottom line is you're a sitting duck...you don't hear of as many atrocities because you just usually don't run into trouble.

[youngunz4life]

I admit my post needs 'ightening up' but I feel it at least holds some water. I know someone that went thru a nightmare going thru NJ legally as only one example might change their opinion real quick about National CCW. It usually takes an eye-opener like that.

[JustThisGuy]

Very good discussion. Lots of useful information.

And it certainly drives home the need for national reciprocal CCW.