First lever action

Moloch · February 16, 2009, 08:09 AM

Hi!

I've just got me a Levergun and I have a question about it, I have only bolt guns and thats my first lever. Its a Rossi Puma 92. .357/38.

Its brand new, does the action get smoother over time or should I work the action with more force? On closing when the locking lugs go into the slide its a bit stiff. Using gun oil didnt help much. Should I run it dry so that the metal-on-metal surfaces are polishing themselves until the action feels smoother?

And, can I safely run dynamite nobel .357 through it? That one:

The tip has exactely the size of the primer.

Thanks!

Hawg · February 16, 2009, 08:40 AM

What I did was fill the action with white lithium grease and worked it a couple of hours. Really slicked things up. I don't think I'd want to use pointy bullets in a lever gun.

Moloch · February 16, 2009, 09:01 AM

Thanks, thats exactely what Iam going to ty, working the action a few hundred times while continuously lubing it.

Hawg · February 16, 2009, 09:18 AM

Go to an automotive parts house and get a tube of white lithium grease, won't cost much. Put a generous amount in the action and just work it. No need to keep adding lube.

Moloch · February 16, 2009, 11:32 AM

Ok, I'll try that specific lube, I wonder how much different it is from my standart engine oil for lubing.

Just one last question, I know its heavily depending on ammo brand & powder, but how much more velocity do I get if I fire a .357 magnum 158 grain round through a 20'' barrel? The round is advertised to make 1250 fp/s out of a revolver. (Magtech)

Thanks!

pilothunter · February 16, 2009, 12:23 PM

In respect to the velocity question, I'd say you would pick up somewhere around 350 FPS with the added length to a 20" carbine. This link shows a similar comparison in a .44 mag and 16.5" carbine. No info seems to be available reference their .357 ammo though.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=117

Al Thompson · February 16, 2009, 12:29 PM

Moloch, 400 sounds about right, perhaps a bit low as you have a 20 inch barrel. My 1894 in .44 (IIRC) would gain about that much, depending on the exact load..

Moloch · February 16, 2009, 12:51 PM

Thanks for the velocity figures!

Ah, darn it.

The Magtech jacketed soft points wont feed, they get stuck when the lead tip touches the chamber, the lead's just too soft and sticky. Have to stick with FMJ and JHP instead I guess.

I've heard that some people shoot their SWC-Reloads in their Lever, how is that possible?

T.A.Sharps · February 16, 2009, 01:19 PM

Does the Puma have some sort of protective coating like Remingtons do? Does not seem right that the action would be so stiff to me?

At least I never had a problem with my 45/70 Marlin with lead bullets, the action is smooth as silk.

Hawg · February 16, 2009, 01:28 PM

I use home cast RNFP's in my Rossi 44-40 with no problems at all. I'm sure it would feed SWC's as well.

Quote:

Ok, I'll try that specific lube, I wonder how much different it is from my standart engine oil for lubing.

It's a light weight grease designed to be used as an initial coating for bearings and rings on engine rebuilds. It'll help parts wear in to each other with less friction.

Quote:

Does the Puma have some sort of protective coating like Remingtons do? Does not seem right that the action would be so stiff to me?

No they don't have a protective coating they're made to sell cheaper so the internal parts don't get the factory polishing higher priced guns do. You could tear it down and hand polish the moving parts but tearing down a 92 isn't for the faint hearted.

Moloch · February 16, 2009, 01:47 PM

The action is smooth until the final inch before the bolt is closed and completely locked. Then its hard, and even harder with a live round. I Have to really work the action with a lot of force, so much force that I fear damaging the system.

Quote:

I use home cast RNFP's in my Rossi 44-40 with no problems at all. I'm sure it would feed SWC's as well.

I tried lead round nose 38's which I have got chambered, but the .357 lead flat points wont go into the chamber, when they are touching the chambers top the get stuck. Pulled the round and it had a really flat and shiney spot in the lead.

Did I buy a bad Rossi? I got it from a private person so no return.

Hawg · February 16, 2009, 01:52 PM

That could be from a stiff extractor spring. You can remove it and take a couple of coils off of it or buy a replacement but like I said tearing down a 92 isn't for the faint hearted. I'd try the grease first and if that doesn't work for your problem then try the spring. Mine was rough through the whole cycle. You had to slam the lever down to get the carrier to come up. Maybe the newer ones are smoother.

dipper · February 16, 2009, 02:00 PM

You shouldn't have to work the action hard enough to feel as though you may damage something....sounds like the rifle may have a problem with the chamber but I can't be sure----the last inch of travel would be were the round gets chambered....It just doesn't sound right to me.

As far as velocity goes, I get anywhere between 1800 to 2100 fps out of my marlin 1894c shooting 357 magnum ....depending on the load I am using.

check out this link for some info on velocity for 357 magnum in rifle.
It's a different cartridge when fired from a rifle versus revolver.

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357

For the cost of a check over, I would have a good smith take a look at it and tell me what he thinks.

Hawg · February 16, 2009, 02:05 PM

Moloch, sent ya a PM.

Hawg · February 16, 2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

You shouldn't have to work the action hard enough to feel as though you may damage something....sounds like the rifle may have a problem with the chamber but I can't be sure----the last inch of travel would be were the round gets chambered....It just doesn't sound right to me.

A 92 has double locking lugs that come up through the top of the receiver so the last inch or so is going to be a little stiffer. Can't really do much about that as that controls headspace. I think his problem tho is going to be a stiff extractor spring that requires a heavy hand to force the extractor over the cartridge rim.

Moloch · February 16, 2009, 03:14 PM

Thanks for the replies so far, I really appreciate the help!

I am just field stripping the rifle to get to the extractor spring, but I ran into another problem:
I unscrewed the locking bolts to pull them out, they are very loose but cannot be pulled out. What's wrong now?

As far as I can judge about the chamber, it seems to be ok. The rounds can be chambered easily by hand and the cases dont show any sign of scratching, dents or things alaike.

dipper · February 16, 2009, 03:14 PM

You could very well be right Hawg but he said it is hard with or without cartridge being chambered--he said it is harder with the cartridge but also hard without one---I never had to work one to the point were I thought I may damage something....sounds like a lot of force to me.

Also, he mentioned marks on bullets and rounds not chambering...something does not sound right to me.
I would be interested to know what the problem is when it is figured out.

Moloch · February 16, 2009, 03:18 PM

Only the soft lead bullets show heavy marking, they rub at the top of the chamber while trying to chamber them, but they wont work. Its the steep angle of the rounds getting forced into the chamber. The FMJ bullet show no signs of wear and work perfectly.

But how do I get out the two locking bolts after I unscrewed them? They seem to be stuck somewhere, they are very loose but something is in their way.

ZeSpectre · February 16, 2009, 03:23 PM

Tips on tuning up a Rossi 92
http://marauder.homestead.com/files/rossitune.htm

Sounds like the OP's rifle has a problem with the ejector spring or the little ring on the ejector hanging up (it'll be interesting to see if he has the "chatter marks" on the ejector.

Hawg · February 16, 2009, 03:31 PM

With the lever open and the pin screw and pin removed the bolts should slide out.

Moloch · February 16, 2009, 03:39 PM

I did it, but I had to tap them out with a hammer and a small screwdriver! I thought they were sliding out like in the description.....

But now the next problem, the description says ''remove the lever''. ? Did I miss something, the lever still operates the bolt and sits perfectly in the rifle......?

Hawg · February 16, 2009, 03:43 PM

Did you remove the bolt pin?

Hawg · February 16, 2009, 03:48 PM

The bolt pin screw is the foremost screw in the left side of the receiver toward the top. Remove it and the bolt pin comes out the left side where you removed the screw. There's a corresponding hole in the right side of the receiver you can drive it out through. I've got to go to work but read the directions carefully and you'll get through it.

Moloch · February 16, 2009, 03:57 PM

You mean this pin?

Yes, I really forgot to push it out.

But it wont move anyway, I even used the hammer to get it out, no success. And yes, I have removed the screw on the opposite side and yes, I am trying to push the pin from right (the small hole) through the large hole where the screw was sitting in.

Moloch · February 16, 2009, 04:07 PM

I gave up and reassembled the rifle, did I mention that reassembling this rifle is pain in the butt? I had to reset the main spring twice because the pin I put through it to hold it in place broke and sent the spring flying through the air almost into my eye.

February 16, 2009, 08:09 AM	#1
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	First lever action Hi! I've just got me a Levergun and I have a question about it, I have only bolt guns and thats my first lever. Its a Rossi Puma 92. .357/38. Its brand new, does the action get smoother over time or should I work the action with more force? On closing when the locking lugs go into the slide its a bit stiff. Using gun oil didnt help much. Should I run it dry so that the metal-on-metal surfaces are polishing themselves until the action feels smoother? And, can I safely run dynamite nobel .357 through it? That one: The tip has exactely the size of the primer. Thanks!

February 16, 2009, 12:29 PM	#7
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Moloch, 400 sounds about right, perhaps a bit low as you have a 20 inch barrel. My 1894 in .44 (IIRC) would gain about that much, depending on the exact load.. __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

February 16, 2009, 01:19 PM	#9
T.A.Sharps Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2007 Posts: 675	Does the Puma have some sort of protective coating like Remingtons do? Does not seem right that the action would be so stiff to me? At least I never had a problem with my 45/70 Marlin with lead bullets, the action is smooth as silk. __________________ " ...Said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it..." "Your reality, sir, is lies and bladerdash, and I am delighted to say I have no grasp of it whatsoever!"

February 16, 2009, 02:00 PM	#13
dipper Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Posts: 895	You shouldn't have to work the action hard enough to feel as though you may damage something....sounds like the rifle may have a problem with the chamber but I can't be sure----the last inch of travel would be were the round gets chambered....It just doesn't sound right to me. As far as velocity goes, I get anywhere between 1800 to 2100 fps out of my marlin 1894c shooting 357 magnum ....depending on the load I am using. check out this link for some info on velocity for 357 magnum in rifle. It's a different cartridge when fired from a rifle versus revolver. http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357 For the cost of a check over, I would have a good smith take a look at it and tell me what he thinks. __________________ --------------------------------------------------------- "It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees" EMILIANO ZAPATA SALAZAR

February 16, 2009, 03:14 PM	#17
dipper Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Posts: 895	You could very well be right Hawg but he said it is hard with or without cartridge being chambered--he said it is harder with the cartridge but also hard without one---I never had to work one to the point were I thought I may damage something....sounds like a lot of force to me. Also, he mentioned marks on bullets and rounds not chambering...something does not sound right to me. I would be interested to know what the problem is when it is figured out. __________________ --------------------------------------------------------- "It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees" EMILIANO ZAPATA SALAZAR

February 16, 2009, 08:40 AM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	What I did was fill the action with white lithium grease and worked it a couple of hours. Really slicked things up. I don't think I'd want to use pointy bullets in a lever gun.

February 16, 2009, 09:01 AM	#3
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	Thanks, thats exactely what Iam going to ty, working the action a few hundred times while continuously lubing it.

February 16, 2009, 09:18 AM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Go to an automotive parts house and get a tube of white lithium grease, won't cost much. Put a generous amount in the action and just work it. No need to keep adding lube.

February 16, 2009, 11:32 AM	#5
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	Ok, I'll try that specific lube, I wonder how much different it is from my standart engine oil for lubing. Just one last question, I know its heavily depending on ammo brand & powder, but how much more velocity do I get if I fire a .357 magnum 158 grain round through a 20'' barrel? The round is advertised to make 1250 fp/s out of a revolver. (Magtech) Thanks!

February 16, 2009, 12:23 PM	#6
pilothunter Junior member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Tn Posts: 400	In respect to the velocity question, I'd say you would pick up somewhere around 350 FPS with the added length to a 20" carbine. This link shows a similar comparison in a .44 mag and 16.5" carbine. No info seems to be available reference their .357 ammo though. http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=117

February 16, 2009, 12:51 PM	#8
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	Thanks for the velocity figures! Ah, darn it. The Magtech jacketed soft points wont feed, they get stuck when the lead tip touches the chamber, the lead's just too soft and sticky. Have to stick with FMJ and JHP instead I guess. I've heard that some people shoot their SWC-Reloads in their Lever, how is that possible?

February 16, 2009, 01:52 PM	#12
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	That could be from a stiff extractor spring. You can remove it and take a couple of coils off of it or buy a replacement but like I said tearing down a 92 isn't for the faint hearted. I'd try the grease first and if that doesn't work for your problem then try the spring. Mine was rough through the whole cycle. You had to slam the lever down to get the carrier to come up. Maybe the newer ones are smoother.

February 16, 2009, 02:05 PM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Moloch, sent ya a PM.

February 16, 2009, 03:18 PM	#18
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	Only the soft lead bullets show heavy marking, they rub at the top of the chamber while trying to chamber them, but they wont work. Its the steep angle of the rounds getting forced into the chamber. The FMJ bullet show no signs of wear and work perfectly. But how do I get out the two locking bolts after I unscrewed them? They seem to be stuck somewhere, they are very loose but something is in their way.

February 16, 2009, 03:23 PM	#19
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	Tips on tuning up a Rossi 92 http://marauder.homestead.com/files/rossitune.htm Sounds like the OP's rifle has a problem with the ejector spring or the little ring on the ejector hanging up (it'll be interesting to see if he has the "chatter marks" on the ejector.

February 16, 2009, 03:31 PM	#20
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	With the lever open and the pin screw and pin removed the bolts should slide out.

February 16, 2009, 03:39 PM	#21
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	I did it, but I had to tap them out with a hammer and a small screwdriver! I thought they were sliding out like in the description..... But now the next problem, the description says ''remove the lever''. ? Did I miss something, the lever still operates the bolt and sits perfectly in the rifle......?

February 16, 2009, 03:43 PM	#22
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Did you remove the bolt pin?

February 16, 2009, 03:48 PM	#23
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	The bolt pin screw is the foremost screw in the left side of the receiver toward the top. Remove it and the bolt pin comes out the left side where you removed the screw. There's a corresponding hole in the right side of the receiver you can drive it out through. I've got to go to work but read the directions carefully and you'll get through it.

February 16, 2009, 03:57 PM	#24
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	You mean this pin? Yes, I really forgot to push it out. But it wont move anyway, I even used the hammer to get it out, no success. And yes, I have removed the screw on the opposite side and yes, I am trying to push the pin from right (the small hole) through the large hole where the screw was sitting in. Last edited by Moloch; February 16, 2009 at 05:02 PM.

February 16, 2009, 04:07 PM	#25
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	I gave up and reassembled the rifle, did I mention that reassembling this rifle is pain in the butt? I had to reset the main spring twice because the pin I put through it to hold it in place broke and sent the spring flying through the air almost into my eye. Last edited by Moloch; February 16, 2009 at 07:20 PM.