Cast Bullets - Page 2

TimSr · August 4, 2016, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Now I'm curious as to why not to learn casting and reloading at the same time. They are two completely separate processes.

It's not a problem if there are no problems, but judging from all the problems, questions, arguments and discussion just on loading cast bullets alone, adding a whole, new set of variables makes it a lot harder to diagnose and fix things, when everything does not fall into place.

reddog81 · August 4, 2016, 09:47 AM

You could start casting and reloading at the same time but both activities have a fairly steep learning curve. Additionally, to get setup for both activities requires the purchase of specialized equipment that might be a financial barrier for some people to start both at the same time.

I'd definitely recommend to start reloading before casting. You can get cast bullets for reasonably cheap. I think it would be very helpful to know what kind of bullets you and your guns prefer before you start spending $100's on molds. You can find cast bullets for most common calibers for around $.06 to $.08. I can produce my own for about $.03 to $.04. The savings add up over time, but spending a couple cents more and buying cast bullets when your starting out is going eliminate a lot of headache.

dahermit · August 4, 2016, 09:55 AM

I started handloading AND casting about the same time in the middle sixties. I discovered that commercial bullets were too expensive and I wanted shoot more for less money (which I did not have much of). In other words, I did not have much choice if I wanted to shoot.

mikld · August 4, 2016, 11:44 AM

Not all cast bullet defects are visible, I have found voids in cast bullets when I sectioned a few.

A cartridge mis-loaded with any bullet can be dangerous, thus it's better to cut down variables and for a new reloader that would most likely be either jacketed bullets or perhaps commercial cast bullets. Safe techniques don't depend on any bullet style.

Having cast and reloaded cast bullets for 20+ years (I didn't cast until I had 15 years of reloading under my belt, just didn't think about it), I can verify there are a few differences between loading lead and jacketed bullets besides powder charges. The biggest difference is case preparation; sizing and mouth flare are the two most important (and many measure case wall thicknesses and sorted). Handling and loading of lubed cast bullets takes a few more considerations, like lube transferring to dies being one. Much more thought goes into shooting cast bullets as there are results from sloppy casting and loading, namely leading (just look at any discussion/forum about cast bullets and you'll see many "I get too much leading in my gun from my cast lead bullets..."). Much much easier to distort/ruin cast bullets with too heavy a crimp (we're still talking about a new reloader), and leading increases and accuracy drops off.

Neither process, casting lead bullets or reloading, is a difficult process to learn, it's just a matter of paying attention and concentrating on what's being done so one can learn the process. Doing both just increases the chance of mistakes and frustrations.

I liken it to learning to drive, simpler the better. I learned to drive in a 1 ton Studebaker truck with 5 speed straight cut gears. Took me awhile, and I wouldn't recommend that to anyone. Learning the driving and the transmission at the same time increased the difficulty ten fold, I wish I could have use my Mom's '57 Chevy! Of course the OP could go with casting and taking his cast bullets to his bench and his full progressive press, but I'd rather see him start simple and avoid frustrations...

jes an old feller's opinion...

kmw1954 · August 4, 2016, 01:19 PM

mikld thanks for the discussion!

I can see and understand your point of view and reasoning and don't completely disagree with it. Yes the more variables involved the greater the chance for something to not work.

I still look at it as reloading and casting are two separate things. A person could reload and never cast a single bullet and at the same time a person could cast bullets, or any other item, and never reload a single shell.

It's not until those two are but together into one item does it become one and the same.

I also believe that a new person that is just starting anything is going to study the subject and learn as much as possible before they actually start.

Many new to reloading ask a lot of questions here on this forum and on all the other forums I visit. Same goes with those just starting to cast. Which to me are good things. Either way both of those activities have procedures and practices that need to be learned. Which take time. At the same time I still see people that have been doing it a long time still asking questions on loads or bullets that are new to them.

If I were advising someone just starting into reloading my suggestion would be to pick one cartridge and load and stick with it until they've completely worked up a load that really works well. Then take that same cartridge and change powders and start over, then change the bullet. That is how one develops experience. Would also suggest the same for someone just starting to cast.

My personal learning experience came on a Bonanza 86 single stage press with 38/357 and nothing but store bought cast SWC or WC bullets and a Speer #10 reloading manual.

At this time I'm just restarting to reload and with a cartridge that is much more difficult. The 9mm Luger. I plan on starting with plated bullets for the fact that there are less issues with sizing cases, sizing bullets and neck tension/crimping than one would find in a straight walled cartridge or a bottle neck. I'm also gathering tools and supplies to start casting so yes I will be learning both at the same time.

August 4, 2016, 11:44 AM	#29
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Not all cast bullet defects are visible, I have found voids in cast bullets when I sectioned a few. A cartridge mis-loaded with any bullet can be dangerous, thus it's better to cut down variables and for a new reloader that would most likely be either jacketed bullets or perhaps commercial cast bullets. Safe techniques don't depend on any bullet style. Having cast and reloaded cast bullets for 20+ years (I didn't cast until I had 15 years of reloading under my belt, just didn't think about it), I can verify there are a few differences between loading lead and jacketed bullets besides powder charges. The biggest difference is case preparation; sizing and mouth flare are the two most important (and many measure case wall thicknesses and sorted). Handling and loading of lubed cast bullets takes a few more considerations, like lube transferring to dies being one. Much more thought goes into shooting cast bullets as there are results from sloppy casting and loading, namely leading (just look at any discussion/forum about cast bullets and you'll see many "I get too much leading in my gun from my cast lead bullets..."). Much much easier to distort/ruin cast bullets with too heavy a crimp (we're still talking about a new reloader), and leading increases and accuracy drops off. Neither process, casting lead bullets or reloading, is a difficult process to learn, it's just a matter of paying attention and concentrating on what's being done so one can learn the process. Doing both just increases the chance of mistakes and frustrations. I liken it to learning to drive, simpler the better. I learned to drive in a 1 ton Studebaker truck with 5 speed straight cut gears. Took me awhile, and I wouldn't recommend that to anyone. Learning the driving and the transmission at the same time increased the difficulty ten fold, I wish I could have use my Mom's '57 Chevy! Of course the OP could go with casting and taking his cast bullets to his bench and his full progressive press, but I'd rather see him start simple and avoid frustrations... jes an old feller's opinion... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

August 4, 2016, 09:47 AM	#27
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	You could start casting and reloading at the same time but both activities have a fairly steep learning curve. Additionally, to get setup for both activities requires the purchase of specialized equipment that might be a financial barrier for some people to start both at the same time. I'd definitely recommend to start reloading before casting. You can get cast bullets for reasonably cheap. I think it would be very helpful to know what kind of bullets you and your guns prefer before you start spending $100's on molds. You can find cast bullets for most common calibers for around $.06 to $.08. I can produce my own for about $.03 to $.04. The savings add up over time, but spending a couple cents more and buying cast bullets when your starting out is going eliminate a lot of headache.

August 4, 2016, 09:55 AM	#28
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	I started handloading AND casting about the same time in the middle sixties. I discovered that commercial bullets were too expensive and I wanted shoot more for less money (which I did not have much of). In other words, I did not have much choice if I wanted to shoot.

August 4, 2016, 01:19 PM	#30
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	mikld thanks for the discussion! I can see and understand your point of view and reasoning and don't completely disagree with it. Yes the more variables involved the greater the chance for something to not work. I still look at it as reloading and casting are two separate things. A person could reload and never cast a single bullet and at the same time a person could cast bullets, or any other item, and never reload a single shell. It's not until those two are but together into one item does it become one and the same. I also believe that a new person that is just starting anything is going to study the subject and learn as much as possible before they actually start. Many new to reloading ask a lot of questions here on this forum and on all the other forums I visit. Same goes with those just starting to cast. Which to me are good things. Either way both of those activities have procedures and practices that need to be learned. Which take time. At the same time I still see people that have been doing it a long time still asking questions on loads or bullets that are new to them. If I were advising someone just starting into reloading my suggestion would be to pick one cartridge and load and stick with it until they've completely worked up a load that really works well. Then take that same cartridge and change powders and start over, then change the bullet. That is how one develops experience. Would also suggest the same for someone just starting to cast. My personal learning experience came on a Bonanza 86 single stage press with 38/357 and nothing but store bought cast SWC or WC bullets and a Speer #10 reloading manual. At this time I'm just restarting to reload and with a cartridge that is much more difficult. The 9mm Luger. I plan on starting with plated bullets for the fact that there are less issues with sizing cases, sizing bullets and neck tension/crimping than one would find in a straight walled cartridge or a bottle neck. I'm also gathering tools and supplies to start casting so yes I will be learning both at the same time.