Accidental discharge in Florida home?

diceman3 · January 22, 2012, 10:58 AM

I've been reading a thread and see clearly the problems with firing in public or on private property where it may endanger someone in a gated community with nearby homes. I've always wondered about this question:

Question: What if a private home owner in a gated community is cleaning his pistol and, from inside his home accidentally discharges a round that just causes some damage to an internal wall, and no one is injured?

If someone calls the police to report hearing a gun go off, and someone comes to your house and you tell them that you had an accidental discharge, is that against the law in Florida?

Sparks1957 · January 22, 2012, 11:03 AM

Ooops, sounds like you or someone you know has had this happen to them. What are you or they doing cleaning a weapon without clearing it first??

Don't know about the legal aspects, but I would hope you or they don't test the waters again.

Stealthcarry · January 22, 2012, 11:25 AM

Don't answer the door.

Sparks1957 · January 22, 2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Don't answer the door.

Probably not a wise idea. If the cops are responding to a report of a gunshot, and you don't answer the door, they'll probably think it's a possible suicide, murder, or murder/suicide scenario and respond accordingly.

Prevention is the best cure.

MLeake · January 22, 2012, 11:47 AM

An accidental discharge rarely happens during cleaning; negligent discharges are too common during cleaning.

Normally, "accidental discharges" are defined as having been caused by either mechanical malfunction of the weapon, or an external factor.

If the trigger is manipulated while a round is chambered, that's not accidental, that's negligent.

If somebody is carrying a weapon with a chambered round, and finger on the trigger, and he falls and the weapon discharges, that's negligent - finger should not have been on the trigger.

If somebody is carrying a weapon with a chambered round, in a normal carry mode for that weapon, and he falls, and the weapon's safeties don't work for some reason, that would be accidental.

Don H · January 22, 2012, 11:48 AM

Generally, ordinances addressing the discharge of a firearm within city limits are at the city or county level, rather than a state law. Two neighboring municipalities can have very different laws regarding this issue; some may not even have laws regarding this while other municipalities may regulate down to the slingshot or BB gun level.

In other words, you need to determine what the law is for where you live in Florida.

Another issue: Many, if not all, gated communities have HOAs that may take exception to the discharge of firearms within its borders and financial penalties may be leveled by the HOA.

diceman3 · January 22, 2012, 01:52 PM

Ok, now we know the difference between accidental and negligent discharge, makes sense. Ok, so now it's not accidental, but negligent, question is still on the table, if negligent discharge happens in your home, stays within walls, and no one is injured. Anyone know the legal answer?
In Florida, state law prevails over any local, municipal, city laws on gun laws since 2005, and only talks to public discharges to guns and schools, etc. So far I haven't seen a legal answer to the question. Certainly agree that it's smart to answer the door!

MLeake · January 22, 2012, 02:27 PM

You are correct, Florida has state preemption on firearms, and seems to have started putting non-compliant municipalities on notice.

Glenn Dee · January 22, 2012, 05:28 PM

Turn up the T.V. real loud on a cowboy show... Apologize to the officers for the false alarm and invite them in for a glass of iced tea

g.willikers · January 22, 2012, 05:30 PM

But turn on the exhaust fan, first.

maestro pistolero · January 22, 2012, 07:54 PM

"I heard it too, officer. Have you figured out where it came from yet?"

TXAZ · January 22, 2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maestro pistolero

"I heard it too, officer. Have you figured out where it came from yet?"

**Tom Servo** · January 22, 2012, 10:34 PM

I imagine lying or trying to hide what happened would be worse than simply admitting it. Assuming no tangible harm was done to anyone else, or to their property, the worst punishment would likely be a citation.

...and, hopefully, a lesson learned.

Double Naught Spy · January 23, 2012, 11:34 AM

An interior ND that does not exit the house isn't likely to attract much attention at the time of the event. If the house has much of a yard, what sound that does escape the house (assuming windows are not open) is going to be difficult to hear. There will be a muffled 'wump' sound that people outside will be unlikely to identify as being a gun shot noise. As the sound well be transmitted outside from various areas of the house, folks will likely have difficulty knowing or recognizing that the sound came from your house versus coming from somewhere behind your house, though a person on your front porch would certainly know the sound came from inside.

As noted, turn on the exhaust fan and open a couple of windows to allow fresh air in and the smokey air to go away. You don't need to be breathing that.

I would likely grab a picture from elsewhere in the house and immediately hang it over the hole until which time I could patch it myself and repaint. This was the method I used when I drove the head of a hammer into my wall. The hole is still there and we have a very nice picture hanging in our laundry room.

csmsss · January 23, 2012, 11:52 AM

It is against the law to lie to a police officer in the course of his duties. If you ND in your home and a popo comes a callin', you'll be breaking the law if you deny it. You can, of course, decline to answer his questions, at the risk of him assessing that your noncooperation now gives him PC to believe a crime has been committed (in the context of why he was called to the scene, of course). So, the best course of action is to behave with a modicum of judgment and intelligence, because if you do, a negligent discharge is impossible.

People who claim that a gun discharged accidentally/negligently while they were cleaning it or showing it to someone else are either liars or gravely intellectually challenged.

Musketeer · January 23, 2012, 12:44 PM

With areas introducing shot spotter technology they may know within 5 feet where it came from. The tech may only be present in high crime areas now but like all govt surveillance you can expect rapid expansion.

Double Naught Spy · January 23, 2012, 01:31 PM

Quote:

With areas introducing shot spotter technology they may know within 5 feet where it came from. The tech may only be present in high crime areas now but like all govt surveillance you can expect rapid expansion.

Shot spotter doesn't work for indoor discharges. Once again, the problem is that the structure of the home will significantly dampen/muffle the sound. Whereas an open air pistol shot might be heard in excess of a mile, certainly many hundreds of yards, gun shots fired inside a closed home may produce sound that only travels 10s of yards. Even then, if the shot occurs in the front of the home, it may not be noted by a person outside and behind the home.

Quote:

Sound waves from a gunshot reach each sensor at a different time, allowing for triangulation. Police officials said the system is precise, with a margin of error of about 5 yards, but isn't designed for indoor shootings.

http://www.shotspotter.com/news-and-...calif-cops-say

Musketeer · January 23, 2012, 02:49 PM

The system will improve over the next decade in the interest of "public safety". I fully expect a system listening for "key words" within 20...

**Tom Servo** · January 23, 2012, 03:25 PM

Nobody mention Carnivore, please

icedog88 · January 23, 2012, 03:55 PM

Quote:

People who claim that a gun discharged accidentally/negligently while they were cleaning it or showing it to someone else are either liars or gravely intellectually challenged.

Not always. Now it wasn't being cleaned but, the process would be the same as if he was going to clean it.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=475613

Double Naught Spy · January 23, 2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

The system will improve over the next decade in the interest of "public safety". I fully expect a system listening for "key words" within 20...

Sorry, I thought we were talking about currently used technology. Speculation about what may be used in the future is just that, speculation.

csmsss · January 23, 2012, 04:28 PM

Icedog, the event you linked is analagous to the circumstances which PRECEDE cleaning a firearm, and which could not possibly occur while it was being cleaned if any safety precautions have been taken.

maestro pistolero · January 23, 2012, 05:10 PM

Quote:

You can, of course, decline to answer his questions, at the risk of him assessing that your noncooperation now gives him PC to believe a crime has been committed (in the context of why he was called to the scene, of course).

It is well established that exercising one's 5th amendment right does not create PC or RS.

Quote:

It is against the law to lie to a police officer in the course of his duties.

It is not against the law to lie to a police officer. Lying to a federal agent, on the other hand . . . well, ask Martha Stewart.

icedog88 · January 23, 2012, 06:37 PM

Csmsss in order to clean the gun, you must first disassemble it no? I consider that cleaning my gun. You are quibbling over semantics.

diceman3 · January 23, 2012, 07:02 PM

It seems that "icedog88" comments, and the link that he placed in his post, and the accompanying posts are the most comprehensive conversation about an AD and an ND. Unfortunately, if you have read all the posts have If you've read akk thread thus far, you'll not thus far, no one has really stated any firm legal answer to the question.
Consequently, my "bet" with someone regarding the subject will probably not be decided on the forum. Glad someone had the knowledge about probable cause issue, and mistaken idea that it was illegal to lie to police questions, and only applies to federal agents.
Hopefully no one on the forum gets in the position and needs to know the answer.

January 22, 2012, 10:58 AM	#1
diceman3 Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10	Accidental discharge in Florida home? I've been reading a thread and see clearly the problems with firing in public or on private property where it may endanger someone in a gated community with nearby homes. I've always wondered about this question: Question: What if a private home owner in a gated community is cleaning his pistol and, from inside his home accidentally discharges a round that just causes some damage to an internal wall, and no one is injured? If someone calls the police to report hearing a gun go off, and someone comes to your house and you tell them that you had an accidental discharge, is that against the law in Florida?

January 22, 2012, 11:48 AM	#6
Don H Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2000 Location: SLC,Utah Posts: 2,704	Generally, ordinances addressing the discharge of a firearm within city limits are at the city or county level, rather than a state law. Two neighboring municipalities can have very different laws regarding this issue; some may not even have laws regarding this while other municipalities may regulate down to the slingshot or BB gun level. In other words, you need to determine what the law is for where you live in Florida. Another issue: Many, if not all, gated communities have HOAs that may take exception to the discharge of firearms within its borders and financial penalties may be leveled by the HOA. __________________ Don http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/forum/

January 22, 2012, 01:52 PM	#7
diceman3 Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10	Accidental discharge in Florida home? Ok, now we know the difference between accidental and negligent discharge, makes sense. Ok, so now it's not accidental, but negligent, question is still on the table, if negligent discharge happens in your home, stays within walls, and no one is injured. Anyone know the legal answer? In Florida, state law prevails over any local, municipal, city laws on gun laws since 2005, and only talks to public discharges to guns and schools, etc. So far I haven't seen a legal answer to the question. Certainly agree that it's smart to answer the door!

January 22, 2012, 05:30 PM	#10
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	But turn on the exhaust fan, first. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

January 22, 2012, 10:34 PM	#13
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	I imagine lying or trying to hide what happened would be worse than simply admitting it. Assuming no tangible harm was done to anyone else, or to their property, the worst punishment would likely be a citation. ...and, hopefully, a lesson learned. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

January 22, 2012, 11:03 AM	#2
Sparks1957 Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,552	Ooops, sounds like you or someone you know has had this happen to them. What are you or they doing cleaning a weapon without clearing it first?? Don't know about the legal aspects, but I would hope you or they don't test the waters again.

January 22, 2012, 11:25 AM	#3
Stealthcarry Junior member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: The Frozen Tundra Posts: 8	Don't answer the door.

January 22, 2012, 11:47 AM	#5
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	An accidental discharge rarely happens during cleaning; negligent discharges are too common during cleaning. Normally, "accidental discharges" are defined as having been caused by either mechanical malfunction of the weapon, or an external factor. If the trigger is manipulated while a round is chambered, that's not accidental, that's negligent. If somebody is carrying a weapon with a chambered round, and finger on the trigger, and he falls and the weapon discharges, that's negligent - finger should not have been on the trigger. If somebody is carrying a weapon with a chambered round, in a normal carry mode for that weapon, and he falls, and the weapon's safeties don't work for some reason, that would be accidental.

January 22, 2012, 02:27 PM	#8
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	You are correct, Florida has state preemption on firearms, and seems to have started putting non-compliant municipalities on notice.

January 22, 2012, 05:28 PM	#9
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	Turn up the T.V. real loud on a cowboy show... Apologize to the officers for the false alarm and invite them in for a glass of iced tea

January 22, 2012, 07:54 PM	#11
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	"I heard it too, officer. Have you figured out where it came from yet?"

January 23, 2012, 11:34 AM	#14
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	An interior ND that does not exit the house isn't likely to attract much attention at the time of the event. If the house has much of a yard, what sound that does escape the house (assuming windows are not open) is going to be difficult to hear. There will be a muffled 'wump' sound that people outside will be unlikely to identify as being a gun shot noise. As the sound well be transmitted outside from various areas of the house, folks will likely have difficulty knowing or recognizing that the sound came from your house versus coming from somewhere behind your house, though a person on your front porch would certainly know the sound came from inside. As noted, turn on the exhaust fan and open a couple of windows to allow fresh air in and the smokey air to go away. You don't need to be breathing that. I would likely grab a picture from elsewhere in the house and immediately hang it over the hole until which time I could patch it myself and repaint. This was the method I used when I drove the head of a hammer into my wall. The hole is still there and we have a very nice picture hanging in our laundry room. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

January 23, 2012, 11:52 AM	#15
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	It is against the law to lie to a police officer in the course of his duties. If you ND in your home and a popo comes a callin', you'll be breaking the law if you deny it. You can, of course, decline to answer his questions, at the risk of him assessing that your noncooperation now gives him PC to believe a crime has been committed (in the context of why he was called to the scene, of course). So, the best course of action is to behave with a modicum of judgment and intelligence, because if you do, a negligent discharge is impossible. People who claim that a gun discharged accidentally/negligently while they were cleaning it or showing it to someone else are either liars or gravely intellectually challenged.

January 23, 2012, 12:44 PM	#16
Musketeer Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2005 Posts: 3,733	With areas introducing shot spotter technology they may know within 5 feet where it came from. The tech may only be present in high crime areas now but like all govt surveillance you can expect rapid expansion. __________________ "Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." Thomas Jefferson "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin

January 23, 2012, 02:49 PM	#18
Musketeer Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2005 Posts: 3,733	The system will improve over the next decade in the interest of "public safety". I fully expect a system listening for "key words" within 20... __________________ "Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." Thomas Jefferson "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin

January 23, 2012, 03:25 PM	#19
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	Nobody mention Carnivore, please __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

January 23, 2012, 04:28 PM	#22
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	Icedog, the event you linked is analagous to the circumstances which PRECEDE cleaning a firearm, and which could not possibly occur while it was being cleaned if any safety precautions have been taken.

January 23, 2012, 06:37 PM	#24
icedog88 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2011 Location: norwich ct Posts: 737	Csmsss in order to clean the gun, you must first disassemble it no? I consider that cleaning my gun. You are quibbling over semantics. __________________ "The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps"-LtGen. Holland M "Howlin' Mad" Smith, USMC,1949 Have you forgotten yet? Look down and swear by the slain of the War that you'll NEVER forget. [Siegfried Sassoon,"Aftermath,"1919]

January 23, 2012, 07:02 PM	#25
diceman3 Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10	It seems that "icedog88" comments, and the link that he placed in his post, and the accompanying posts are the most comprehensive conversation about an AD and an ND. Unfortunately, if you have read all the posts have If you've read akk thread thus far, you'll not thus far, no one has really stated any firm legal answer to the question. Consequently, my "bet" with someone regarding the subject will probably not be decided on the forum. Glad someone had the knowledge about probable cause issue, and mistaken idea that it was illegal to lie to police questions, and only applies to federal agents. Hopefully no one on the forum gets in the position and needs to know the answer.