Car as cover ? - Page 2

TylerD45ACP · June 30, 2011, 12:52 PM

A car is surely better than nothing that is a fact. Like you said it offers more concealment than cover but i rather be there than in the middle of the street.

BIG P · June 30, 2011, 04:09 PM

There's a old chevy caprice that was stripped on a friends hunting lease after about 6 months & telling police it was there it was never recovered so you know happened it became a back stop to check zero on hunting rifles.Noway do I belive a car is good cover 44mag,357mag,45acp, 9mm all had pass through rounds nearly everyone through on one side. Rifles OMG car or anyone around the car was curtain to die 223,30-30,308,7-08,30-06 went through like butter big ragged holes. car for cover hell NO not ME.

TylerD45ACP · June 30, 2011, 10:56 PM

Bullets really do tear up cars to shreads I rather not be taking cover behind one if I dont have to. Just saying its better than nothing. The engine block/wheel area in front you have decent protection but still I rather have something way better for cover. I have seen online tests on cars and they tear them up. He is right pistol calibers do some serious damage to doors too sailing through. I wouldnt even want to be near a car if someone opened up on it with a 7.62x39. Id return fire and be like

(What Now)

MLeake · June 30, 2011, 11:02 PM

Military taught me, if in a vehicle that gets disabled, to get out of the vehicle. If with others, use the car for cover/concealment only long enough to allow a leapfrog retreat to better cover/concealment. IE, one or two guys at vehicle lay down suppressive fire, while one or two guys retreat, take cover, and then take their turn laying down suppressive fire. Then the guys at the vehicle retreat.

Only guy who normally stays with a stopped vehicle, in a threat area, is the M2 / M240 gunner, and that is situationally dependent.

Only way I'd use a car for cover in a civilian scenario would be if there was nobody else around to help with the leapfrog; and then I'd be behind the engine block or else prone behind a wheel.

YMMV.

TylerD45ACP · June 30, 2011, 11:12 PM

MLeake-- That sounds like an excellent way to do it. Your military, what branch, I wanna join the Army Rangers. Suppressive fire is very important to keep people's heads down. The leap frog is cool how you have guys moving while the others are shooting then switch off. Sounds like you guys knew what you were doing.

Crosshair · July 1, 2011, 11:57 AM

Cars make poor cover. Metal dumpsters on the other hand tend to make very good cover. Just don't hide inside, you need both sides of the dumpster.

MLeake · July 1, 2011, 12:06 PM

Tyler, I wasn't particularly high-speed, low-drag. Just a Naval Aviator. On occasion, I'd get sent as a liaison with ground guys, so I had to get basic training in convoy maneuver, including things to do if a vehicle were disabled by IED or otherwise.

Luckily, never had to put that training to use in the field.

These days, doing the defense contract thing, but other than the occasional indirect fire attack, I don't typically see rounds come anywhere near my way.

mete · July 1, 2011, 12:21 PM

For those who think I don't know what I'm talking about. Cops have always used slugs or rifles to penetrate a car .Bonny and Clyde -the cops used a BAR ,they didn't rely on handguns . They do the same today ! I do know how to make a handgun more effective but that's for another thread !

MLeake · July 1, 2011, 11:44 PM

mete, anybody in their right mind who has access to a rifle or shotgun will use that over a handgun in the vast majority of confrontations; if barrier penetration is a concern, the rifle is obviously the better choice.

So what? Pistol rounds will still go through sheet metal without much difficulty. If you get lucky, the round catches a reinforcing beam, power window drive motor, etc; if not, odds are even a .22 is going through the door or fender.

So, can some parts of a car provide "cover"? Yes. Do most parts of a car provide cover? No, most parts of the car provide concealment, as has been explained in this thread and in the previous one about this topic.

Concealment is often better than no concealment, but sometimes maneuver is the better option. The situation will vary. Generally, though, most other large objects encountered in a city (or rural road) provide much better protection than does a car.

BIG P · July 2, 2011, 12:50 AM

Even when the motor was shot through the fender with the rifles parts would bust through the hood and fly 20yds from the car & stick in trees so even if the bullet didnt hit you,you still had a good chance of getting hit with debris.

TylerD45ACP · July 2, 2011, 03:09 PM

If I can only use a pistol fine thats what im using even if Im gettin shot at from 100yds its all I got

. However, I would choose at least a 5.56x45 caliber rifle to have on me if I could in the confrontations, possibly a 7.62. There is just no disputing the so called stopping power of pistols compared to rifles.

Glenn Dee · July 2, 2011, 07:07 PM

I dont get it... Most people believe that a car is poor cover. Would anyone actually hesitate to dive behind a car if shots were being fired in your direction? Would some people actually stay in harms way in order to avoid using the car? lol ... Cover is a relative term. There can always be better, and there can be worse. A car is better cover in the civilian world, than it is in the military world. Mainly because of the round count, and size...

Cover is where you find it... Close is more important than better... What would be better cover than a car? I tree?... or a fire hydrant? Concrete block wall? A sidewalk curb?

July 1, 2011, 11:57 AM	#31
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	Cars make poor cover. Metal dumpsters on the other hand tend to make very good cover. Just don't hide inside, you need both sides of the dumpster. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

July 1, 2011, 12:21 PM	#33
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	For those who think I don't know what I'm talking about. Cops have always used slugs or rifles to penetrate a car .Bonny and Clyde -the cops used a BAR ,they didn't rely on handguns . They do the same today ! I do know how to make a handgun more effective but that's for another thread ! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

June 30, 2011, 12:52 PM	#26
TylerD45ACP Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2010 Posts: 1,654	A car is surely better than nothing that is a fact. Like you said it offers more concealment than cover but i rather be there than in the middle of the street.

June 30, 2011, 04:09 PM	#27
BIG P Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2010 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,679	There's a old chevy caprice that was stripped on a friends hunting lease after about 6 months & telling police it was there it was never recovered so you know happened it became a back stop to check zero on hunting rifles.Noway do I belive a car is good cover 44mag,357mag,45acp, 9mm all had pass through rounds nearly everyone through on one side. Rifles OMG car or anyone around the car was curtain to die 223,30-30,308,7-08,30-06 went through like butter big ragged holes. car for cover hell NO not ME.

June 30, 2011, 10:56 PM	#28
TylerD45ACP Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2010 Posts: 1,654	Bullets really do tear up cars to shreads I rather not be taking cover behind one if I dont have to. Just saying its better than nothing. The engine block/wheel area in front you have decent protection but still I rather have something way better for cover. I have seen online tests on cars and they tear them up. He is right pistol calibers do some serious damage to doors too sailing through. I wouldnt even want to be near a car if someone opened up on it with a 7.62x39. Id return fire and be like (What Now)

June 30, 2011, 11:02 PM	#29
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Military taught me, if in a vehicle that gets disabled, to get out of the vehicle. If with others, use the car for cover/concealment only long enough to allow a leapfrog retreat to better cover/concealment. IE, one or two guys at vehicle lay down suppressive fire, while one or two guys retreat, take cover, and then take their turn laying down suppressive fire. Then the guys at the vehicle retreat. Only guy who normally stays with a stopped vehicle, in a threat area, is the M2 / M240 gunner, and that is situationally dependent. Only way I'd use a car for cover in a civilian scenario would be if there was nobody else around to help with the leapfrog; and then I'd be behind the engine block or else prone behind a wheel. YMMV.

June 30, 2011, 11:12 PM	#30
TylerD45ACP Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2010 Posts: 1,654	MLeake-- That sounds like an excellent way to do it. Your military, what branch, I wanna join the Army Rangers. Suppressive fire is very important to keep people's heads down. The leap frog is cool how you have guys moving while the others are shooting then switch off. Sounds like you guys knew what you were doing.

July 1, 2011, 12:06 PM	#32
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Tyler, I wasn't particularly high-speed, low-drag. Just a Naval Aviator. On occasion, I'd get sent as a liaison with ground guys, so I had to get basic training in convoy maneuver, including things to do if a vehicle were disabled by IED or otherwise. Luckily, never had to put that training to use in the field. These days, doing the defense contract thing, but other than the occasional indirect fire attack, I don't typically see rounds come anywhere near my way.

July 1, 2011, 11:44 PM	#34
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	mete, anybody in their right mind who has access to a rifle or shotgun will use that over a handgun in the vast majority of confrontations; if barrier penetration is a concern, the rifle is obviously the better choice. So what? Pistol rounds will still go through sheet metal without much difficulty. If you get lucky, the round catches a reinforcing beam, power window drive motor, etc; if not, odds are even a .22 is going through the door or fender. So, can some parts of a car provide "cover"? Yes. Do most parts of a car provide cover? No, most parts of the car provide concealment, as has been explained in this thread and in the previous one about this topic. Concealment is often better than no concealment, but sometimes maneuver is the better option. The situation will vary. Generally, though, most other large objects encountered in a city (or rural road) provide much better protection than does a car.

July 2, 2011, 12:50 AM	#35
BIG P Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2010 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,679	Even when the motor was shot through the fender with the rifles parts would bust through the hood and fly 20yds from the car & stick in trees so even if the bullet didnt hit you,you still had a good chance of getting hit with debris.

July 2, 2011, 03:09 PM	#36
TylerD45ACP Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2010 Posts: 1,654	If I can only use a pistol fine thats what im using even if Im gettin shot at from 100yds its all I got . However, I would choose at least a 5.56x45 caliber rifle to have on me if I could in the confrontations, possibly a 7.62. There is just no disputing the so called stopping power of pistols compared to rifles.

July 2, 2011, 07:07 PM	#37
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	I dont get it... Most people believe that a car is poor cover. Would anyone actually hesitate to dive behind a car if shots were being fired in your direction? Would some people actually stay in harms way in order to avoid using the car? lol ... Cover is a relative term. There can always be better, and there can be worse. A car is better cover in the civilian world, than it is in the military world. Mainly because of the round count, and size... Cover is where you find it... Close is more important than better... What would be better cover than a car? I tree?... or a fire hydrant? Concrete block wall? A sidewalk curb?