308 Winchester at 1000 yds Load

Doc Lisenby · February 16, 1999, 12:29 AM

I am trying to keep a 308 Winny shooting a 168 gr Sierra MK from going subsonic out to 1000 yds. I heard that the hi power shooters had trouble with the 165 gr keyholing at that distance and that is why they went to 168 grs. Is that correct?

Cheapo · February 19, 1999, 02:26 AM

Uh, I thought it went the other direction--168 MKs can't be launched fast enough at safe .308/7.62 pressures, but the 155 Palma MK can be.

It's a ballistic coefficient thing, combined with being just enough lighter that it can be fired off just enough faster....

The bad news is I've never loaded it. But this should put you on the trail of your goal. I presume it's a .308 1,000 yd load with lighter bullets.

I have a 190 gr MK load I've used a tiny bit, but it's enough below max that the wind drift at 600 to 800 is almost exactly the same as for the 168. Bummer, eh?

Doc Lisenby · February 22, 1999, 08:11 PM

Thanks Cheapo, I had them backward I guess.

Cheapo · February 27, 1999, 03:55 AM

Of course, the bullets 173-gr and heavier can all be launched fast enough to stay above those nasty transsonic velocities through 1,000 yards.

There are even some sources of USGI 173-gr pills. They perform acceptably (sub-MOA) from good match barrels in bolt guns. I'll post a source if you want...

bald1 · February 27, 1999, 12:33 PM

Doc,

Give the Sierra 175 MatchKings a try. Powders like VV N140, N150, N540, IMR4064, and VarGet can get the job done.

These heavier bullets shed velocity slower yet can be launched fast enough to remain supersonic at 1000 yards.

-=[Bob]=-

Doc Lisenby · February 28, 1999, 10:48 AM

Thanks Bob and Cheapo. Hook me up with the supply for the 173gr.s please. They seemed to get the job done in High Power in my M1 a few years back so maybe they will work in the .308 Win. I have shot the 175gr Sierra in my 30/378 but it prefers RVO-70 and it is amoung the missing. It also likes HC-30 powder also but I'm running short on both of them. My 300 Ackley shoots the 175Gr Berger pretty good so maybe I should try it if I can get it to stay supersonic in the 308. Thanks to both of you.

RJ in Rome NY · March 20, 1999, 10:47 AM

Sounds like if you're near the max velocity
for that bullet, then the ballistic coefficient is the next place to look..
and so I would consider SPBT and if you
try the Nosler ballistic tips.. their BC
is quite high.. and I think I saw the Match King mentioned.. which also is a Boattail I believe.. Up the BC ... then the bullet will
maintain its velocity further downrange..

Cheapo · March 22, 1999, 11:39 AM

Sorry for the delay on this--had no hard notes, and search engines don't reliably pull up this guy's stuff.

I think I've called this guy, before I realized I didn't have enough powder yet to load the bullets I was thinking of ordering. Somewhere, he even has a web site or some listing of products offered. Besides 173-gr FMJBTs at $15/100 (I thought it was steep), he has various surplus powders, tracers, and other USGI stuff.

Jeff Bartlett, 1309 W. 9th St., Owensboro, KY 42301. Tel: (502) 685-2432, Fax: (502) 684-6249, email: [email protected].

Then of course there is the DCM program. If you're a member of your state association, that should be enough of DCM club membership to get you into the program. I think the url is www.--aw heck, do a dejanews search on rec.guns.

Later,
Cheapo

Cheapo · March 27, 1999, 03:06 AM

Doc, here's the url of another source for 173s--they are probably pulls, but dimples in the ogive or driving band of bullets have virtually zero effect on accuracy.

Price is better--$10/100

http://www.iidbs.com/hitech/

longline · March 28, 1999, 04:31 AM

Hey Doc! I have been using 173 gr. "pulled" bullets provided by hitech, in a Rem PSS .308. Excellent results, though they do not have the quality control that the Match Kings have. I have not shot them at long range, but they seem to do a good job out to two hundred. The M118 round is loaded with these things, I believe, and it does acceptably well at the long ranges. Shoot well. longline

Zak Smith · March 14, 2005, 06:10 PM

Try the 175gr SMK with Varget; start at 43.5gr and work up. 2700fps from a 24" is easy.

Also look at the Lapua 155gr Scenar, which allegedly has a BC of 0.508. I have confirmed drop data to 730 yards and it's "on." Look at Varget, N140, IMR4895, or N550. The factory 155gr Lapua shoot about 2820fps from a 24", and ought to beat the 175SMK for both drop and wind. This bullet can be pushed to 2900fps easily, and further if you have a longer throat.

-z

Tim R · March 16, 2005, 11:14 PM

To stay super sonic at a 1000 I would use either the 155 Gr "palma" SMK or the 175 SMK. The 168's operate best at speeds found in a gas gun IMHO, and won't do what you want. A 175 SMK is way better than any pulled 173.

Zak Smith · March 16, 2005, 11:19 PM

The 155gr Lapua has a better BC than the 155 SMK, more comparable to the 175SMK. Since it can be driven approx 200fps faster than the 175, it will remain supersonic further.

Code:

_Bullet_           _BC_ _MV_         0     200     400     600     800    1000    1200 | YARDS
155LAP            0.508 2900 >   -1.80   -0.00  -19.66  -67.38 -152.41 -287.78 -491.40 | drop (inches)
155SMK            0.45* 2900 >   -1.80   -0.00  -20.47  -71.35 -164.80 -319.59 -561.97 | drop (inches)
175SMK            0.51* 2700 >   -1.80   -0.00  -23.33  -80.10 -182.14 -346.42 -595.48 | drop (inches)

155LAP            0.508 2900 >    0.00    2.38   10.15   24.46   46.75   78.66  121.71 | wind (inches)
155SMK            0.45* 2900 >    0.00    2.71   11.74   28.70   55.89   96.02  150.11 | wind (inches)
175SMK            0.51* 2700 >    0.00    2.71   11.59   28.06   53.92   91.01  140.21 | wind (inches)

155LAP            0.508 2900 > 2900.00 2555.37 2235.47 1939.28 1669.79 1433.08 1238.26 | velocity (fps)
155SMK            0.45* 2900 > 2900.00 2511.71 2150.37 1820.94 1514.90 1263.24 1089.33 | velocity (fps)
175SMK            0.51* 2700 > 2700.00 2362.16 2049.10 1761.80 1501.79 1283.86 1122.76 | velocity (fps)

-z

March 14, 2005, 06:10 PM	#11
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	Try the 175gr SMK with Varget; start at 43.5gr and work up. 2700fps from a 24" is easy. Also look at the Lapua 155gr Scenar, which allegedly has a BC of 0.508. I have confirmed drop data to 730 yards and it's "on." Look at Varget, N140, IMR4895, or N550. The factory 155gr Lapua shoot about 2820fps from a 24", and ought to beat the 175SMK for both drop and wind. This bullet can be pushed to 2900fps easily, and further if you have a longer throat. -z __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

March 16, 2005, 11:14 PM	#12
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	To stay super sonic at a 1000 I would use either the 155 Gr "palma" SMK or the 175 SMK. The 168's operate best at speeds found in a gas gun IMHO, and won't do what you want. A 175 SMK is way better than any pulled 173. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

February 16, 1999, 12:29 AM	#1
Doc Lisenby Member Join Date: November 25, 1998 Location: Chesterfield, SC,USA Posts: 31	I am trying to keep a 308 Winny shooting a 168 gr Sierra MK from going subsonic out to 1000 yds. I heard that the hi power shooters had trouble with the 165 gr keyholing at that distance and that is why they went to 168 grs. Is that correct?

February 19, 1999, 02:26 AM	#2
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Uh, I thought it went the other direction--168 MKs can't be launched fast enough at safe .308/7.62 pressures, but the 155 Palma MK can be. It's a ballistic coefficient thing, combined with being just enough lighter that it can be fired off just enough faster.... The bad news is I've never loaded it. But this should put you on the trail of your goal. I presume it's a .308 1,000 yd load with lighter bullets. I have a 190 gr MK load I've used a tiny bit, but it's enough below max that the wind drift at 600 to 800 is almost exactly the same as for the 168. Bummer, eh?

February 22, 1999, 08:11 PM	#3
Doc Lisenby Member Join Date: November 25, 1998 Location: Chesterfield, SC,USA Posts: 31	Thanks Cheapo, I had them backward I guess.

February 27, 1999, 03:55 AM	#4
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Of course, the bullets 173-gr and heavier can all be launched fast enough to stay above those nasty transsonic velocities through 1,000 yards. There are even some sources of USGI 173-gr pills. They perform acceptably (sub-MOA) from good match barrels in bolt guns. I'll post a source if you want...

February 27, 1999, 12:33 PM	#5
bald1 Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Black Hills of S. Dakota Posts: 372	Doc, Give the Sierra 175 MatchKings a try. Powders like VV N140, N150, N540, IMR4064, and VarGet can get the job done. These heavier bullets shed velocity slower yet can be launched fast enough to remain supersonic at 1000 yards. -=[Bob]=-

February 28, 1999, 10:48 AM	#6
Doc Lisenby Member Join Date: November 25, 1998 Location: Chesterfield, SC,USA Posts: 31	Thanks Bob and Cheapo. Hook me up with the supply for the 173gr.s please. They seemed to get the job done in High Power in my M1 a few years back so maybe they will work in the .308 Win. I have shot the 175gr Sierra in my 30/378 but it prefers RVO-70 and it is amoung the missing. It also likes HC-30 powder also but I'm running short on both of them. My 300 Ackley shoots the 175Gr Berger pretty good so maybe I should try it if I can get it to stay supersonic in the 308. Thanks to both of you.

March 20, 1999, 10:47 AM	#7
RJ in Rome NY Member Join Date: March 7, 1999 Location: Rome, NY, USA Posts: 16	Sounds like if you're near the max velocity for that bullet, then the ballistic coefficient is the next place to look.. and so I would consider SPBT and if you try the Nosler ballistic tips.. their BC is quite high.. and I think I saw the Match King mentioned.. which also is a Boattail I believe.. Up the BC ... then the bullet will maintain its velocity further downrange..

March 22, 1999, 11:39 AM	#8
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Sorry for the delay on this--had no hard notes, and search engines don't reliably pull up this guy's stuff. I think I've called this guy, before I realized I didn't have enough powder yet to load the bullets I was thinking of ordering. Somewhere, he even has a web site or some listing of products offered. Besides 173-gr FMJBTs at $15/100 (I thought it was steep), he has various surplus powders, tracers, and other USGI stuff. Jeff Bartlett, 1309 W. 9th St., Owensboro, KY 42301. Tel: (502) 685-2432, Fax: (502) 684-6249, email: [email protected]. Then of course there is the DCM program. If you're a member of your state association, that should be enough of DCM club membership to get you into the program. I think the url is www.--aw heck, do a dejanews search on rec.guns. Later, Cheapo

March 27, 1999, 03:06 AM	#9
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Doc, here's the url of another source for 173s--they are probably pulls, but dimples in the ogive or driving band of bullets have virtually zero effect on accuracy. Price is better--$10/100 http://www.iidbs.com/hitech/

March 28, 1999, 04:31 AM	#10
longline Junior Member Join Date: February 16, 1999 Location: wa, usa Posts: 1	Hey Doc! I have been using 173 gr. "pulled" bullets provided by hitech, in a Rem PSS .308. Excellent results, though they do not have the quality control that the Match Kings have. I have not shot them at long range, but they seem to do a good job out to two hundred. The M118 round is loaded with these things, I believe, and it does acceptably well at the long ranges. Shoot well. longline