Countries that are friendly to firearms

dakota.potts · November 12, 2013, 11:31 PM

What countries are there that are friendly to firearms and their owners? Countries where you can get a permit to carry a weapon (and it's feasible to do so -- not a NY situation) and there aren't too many restrictions. I'm not sure I would consider Australia friendly, for instance, since I'm pretty sure they don't allow any semi automatic rifles and there are people currently trying to ban bolt actions.

Also important, what countries could a gun lover from America go to and own firearms if they became a citizen there?

I don't have any big plans, just curiosities and I figure it's always a good thing to keep tabs on.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 12, 2013, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dakota.potts

Also important, what countries could a gun lover from America go to and own firearms if they became a citizen there?

Almost none. And I think it's safe to say there are none that are as good as most of the United States.

WesternNSW · November 13, 2013, 01:08 AM

Mate, you don't know how lucky you are to be an American citizen. Stay and determine your future.

dakota.potts · November 13, 2013, 01:16 AM

Like I said, I have no plans to leave.

I've just never been outside the country and I'd like to see some of it. In the process of thought, I became a little curious as to the gun laws of other countries.

Tejicano · November 13, 2013, 02:34 AM

From my experience travelling in and living in other countries there really are three categories to consider : ownership, carrying, and use for self-defense. And then there is how far the law actually goes in enforcing/changing behavior.

And let's keep the discussion to average citizens - forget outright criminals or the politically connected.

For instance, in Switzerland firearms ownership is regulated but just about anything can be legally owned. Self-defence would probably allowed but I expect you would have to go to trial. From what I understand carry licenses are "NYC" style issue.

Another completely different example - Mexico. Private ownership is regulated to the extent that it is almost impossible. However, at least in the northern states, it is widespread. People might carry if they expect problems - but a carry license is "NYC" style issue.

In Cambodia ownership/carrying is technically illegal but - especially away from the city centers - some people still have, and sometimes carry, handguns and select fire rifles.

I know that in the Czech republic handgun ownership and legal CCW is regulated but not too difficult.

I know that firearms ownership (handguns and long arms) is regulated but possible in most of western Europe but legal CCW seems to generally be "NYC" style.

I expect it may have changed but in Russia 20 years ago in one three week trip across the country I saw a few people carrying - either a "Krinkov" (not a term used by Russians) or a handgun in the belt or in the car at hand. Not legal but...

In most of East Asia not only is ownership highly restricted - generally handguns are completely illegal - but use of a legally registered long gun for self-defence will get you a long jail sentence regardless of the circumstances - self defence is not recognized. (Notable exceptions are Thailand and the Philippines - pistols are highly regulated but ownership for self defence is possible.)

I know - via the internet - people in New Zealand who collect FAL's so I can say those are legal there. Legal CCW does not seem to be possible there - but I could be mis-informed on that. I have been told that sound suppressors are not regulated there - you can purchase one the same way you would purchase another barrel for your gun.

The US is just about the most free country in the face of the earth when it comes to firearms. The only other places where gun laws are less restrictive are places no prudent person would go without a proper gun - Yemen and Somalia for instance.

trg42wraglefragle · November 13, 2013, 05:47 AM

If you dropped the wanting to carry a weapon you would have a lot more options.
I'd say New Zealand is pretty friendly to firearms. You need to get a licence to own a rifle, and then there is different categories. But anyone who legitimately wants to own one wouldn't struggle to get their licences. You definitely cannot uses a gun for self defence, but if you did use on and had the right story to back it up you could get away with it.

Biggest thing you would notice in most countries is the price for gun related goods is dirt cheap on the US compared to more or less anywhere else.

Just say you did move to New Zealand, I think the gun laws would be the least of your worries, as everything you have ever known and treated as the norm, will be completely different. Which would completely overwhelm any loss of "rights/liberty".

trg42wraglefragle · November 13, 2013, 05:49 AM

Oh and forgot to add that suppressors are piece of cake to get a Tejicano eluded too.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 13, 2013, 07:48 AM

FWIW, M1911.org has been running a series of articles about gun laws in their on-line magazine ( http://ezine.m1911.org/forums.php ). They have only done three or four so far. Keep in mind, they are getting these articles from people who are shooters, and who mostly are members of M1911.org, so the articles you'll find probably represent some of the more gun-friendly countries. I know the owner of M1911.org, so I know he is already having trouble finding people to write future articles to cover other countries.

dean1818 · November 13, 2013, 07:52 AM

The philipines are gun friendly

(But there is a push against it)

Wyoredman · November 13, 2013, 11:44 AM

I've traveled to Canada, Mexico and New Zealand for hunting. Canada and New Zealand were very helpful and straight forward when it came to getting a permit for my hunting rifles. Mexico, not so much (I gave up and used the outfitters rifle)!

When entering Canada and New Zealand with my rifles, the authorities just made sure I had my pre-approved permit. Simple. Done a month prior to entering the country. Serial numbers, make and model were required when applying for the permit. It was actually much harder coming back into the States from both countries. The TSA at LAX and Chicago didn't seem to know how to handle firearms coming back in with U.S. Citizens?

One other short note, when leaving New Zealand, I had forgotten my small folding pocket knife in my pants pocket. Going through security, I was fully expecting to have it confiscated by NZ security. The gentleman at the screening area looked at it, and gave it back to me. I asked why he didn't take it from me and he answered "We Kiwis don't get as worked up about things like pocket knives as you Americans do! That's why you don't need to remove your shoes! Have a great flight home!" When I landed in LA, TSA relieved me of my pocket knife! Funny!

**Tom Servo** · November 13, 2013, 03:09 PM

I've heard that Costa Rica and Belize are relatively gun-friendly. However, neither has very strong protections against possible future encroachments. Our 2nd Amendment is somewhat unique.

Husqvarna · November 13, 2013, 03:20 PM

Finland is pretty relaxed, not cc but ownership is atleast possible without much hassle

Austria to I think

by european standards...

I think Danmark doesn't require licenses for shotguns, france is the same IIRC

Pond, James Pond · November 13, 2013, 04:14 PM

Estonia is pretty good.

Some peculiar legal aspects, but CC is possible as part of a self-defence licence. Most platforms are legally available, it is the market that limits gun owners: very few in absolute terms meaning the is little demand for more unusual stuff and what there is, is pretty expensive.

As far as I know this kind of ownership scope is quite common in places such as Czech Rep, Poland (although I believe CC is not allowed).

**Tom Servo** · November 13, 2013, 04:25 PM

Perhaps the proper way of putting it is, "**** is pretty good, at least for owning guns."

That can't, and shouldn't be, one's sole criteria for evaluating protection of civil liberties or quality of life.

Pond, James Pond · November 13, 2013, 04:31 PM

If your referring to my post about Estonia, Tom, then the post was in the context of the OP. That being countries that friendly to guns as a part of that society.

It certainly isn't my sole gauge of QoL. I didn't move here for the guns. That is a happy by-product.

BigD_in_FL · November 13, 2013, 06:51 PM

Try Uruguay, greater % of gun owners per population than the US; add Dominican Republic, Argentina, Bolivia, Costa Rica, New Zealand (suppressors OTC) Chile I believe as well; Spain and Portugal, Scandinavia, Russia, most of Eastern Europe (former Soviet Bloc)

**Aguila Blanca** · November 13, 2013, 07:35 PM

Definitely NOT Chile.

Some private ownership is allowed, primarily associated with club shooting. No self-defense carry, and strict limits on how many guns you can own. Not even close to the gun freedom enjoyed in probably 45 or 46 of our 50 states.

BigD_in_FL · November 13, 2013, 07:38 PM

Thanks for correcting - it was one I could not remember clearly

Glenn E. Meyer · November 13, 2013, 07:47 PM

I think the bottom line is that if you pick the right state, we have other countries beat. Someone asks this every once in awhile as if there is some gun heaven that they can flee to when the UN comes for them.

Funny - my daughter lived in Europe and become friends with a nice Swiss young man who had a fully auto Sig 550 as part of his reserve requirement. He thought it was a big pain the tushy. I told him that I would drool over it if the gun was legal here.

dakota.potts · November 13, 2013, 10:53 PM

I've been watching IPSC videos and there was one in New Zealand. This puzzled me as I thought they weren't very friendly towards handguns. It was explained in the comments that to buy a handgun you have to be 16, register for a firearms license (I think sporting rifle and shotgun was the classification I was told), enroll at a local range, go to the range for a year and attend 12 club shoots, and finally get the club to vouch for you. Once all these conditions are met you may buy a handgun for sporting.

I don't really ask with the mindset of finding a gun safe haven. I'm more curious about where it's legal at all to do so. I don't know if I could live in a country where I couldn't have a firearm at all unless the country was pretty great. That would be like a country that asked me to leave my bass guitars behind or didn't allow pet ownership.

On the other hand, I could probably live with a place that allows semi autos even if not for carry or in the home ownership.

Shooting has just become something that I love to do and it would be a pretty big decision to be somewhere that I couldn't do it (or even somewhere limited to bolt action rifles and double barrel shotguns).

I hear people in Germany, Spain, and Italy talk of concealed carry and it seems to be not so different from here when they speak of it.

ETA: These countries do have concealed carry licenses, but not as easy as they are here.

**Tom Servo** · November 14, 2013, 01:02 AM

Quote:

my daughter lived in Europe and become friends with a nice Swiss young man who had a fully auto Sig 550 as part of his reserve requirement.

My understanding is that recreational use of issue guns (and ammo) is heavily regulated in Switzerland.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 14, 2013, 06:18 AM

Switzerland: http://ezine.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=159

BigD_in_FL · November 14, 2013, 07:26 PM

Quote:

I think the bottom line is that if you pick the right state, we have other countries beat

And if you don't, we have states that are more restrictive then most of, if not all of, the countries previously mentioned

**Tom Servo** · November 14, 2013, 09:05 PM

Quote:

And if you don't, we have states that are more restrictive then most of, if not all of, the countries previously mentioned

Not really. Even states like New York and Illinois have fewer restrictions on ownership than Germany.

Armed_Chicagoan · November 14, 2013, 11:11 PM

Illinois isn't even in the same league as New York. No registration of any type of gun here, no magazine capacity limits, no "assault weapon" ban, no permit required to buy a pistol. The FOID card isn't even as bad as some make it out to be, costs $10 and is good for 10 years. Except for Cook County it's actually a pro-gun state.

November 12, 2013, 11:31 PM	#1
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	Countries that are friendly to firearms What countries are there that are friendly to firearms and their owners? Countries where you can get a permit to carry a weapon (and it's feasible to do so -- not a NY situation) and there aren't too many restrictions. I'm not sure I would consider Australia friendly, for instance, since I'm pretty sure they don't allow any semi automatic rifles and there are people currently trying to ban bolt actions. Also important, what countries could a gun lover from America go to and own firearms if they became a citizen there? I don't have any big plans, just curiosities and I figure it's always a good thing to keep tabs on. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

November 13, 2013, 01:16 AM	#4
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	Like I said, I have no plans to leave. I've just never been outside the country and I'd like to see some of it. In the process of thought, I became a little curious as to the gun laws of other countries. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

November 13, 2013, 07:52 AM	#9
dean1818 Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: Frisco Texas Posts: 844	The philipines are gun friendly (But there is a push against it) __________________ An imperfect servant of my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Buying American made, wherever I still can

November 13, 2013, 11:44 AM	#10
Wyoredman Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2011 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,350	I've traveled to Canada, Mexico and New Zealand for hunting. Canada and New Zealand were very helpful and straight forward when it came to getting a permit for my hunting rifles. Mexico, not so much (I gave up and used the outfitters rifle)! When entering Canada and New Zealand with my rifles, the authorities just made sure I had my pre-approved permit. Simple. Done a month prior to entering the country. Serial numbers, make and model were required when applying for the permit. It was actually much harder coming back into the States from both countries. The TSA at LAX and Chicago didn't seem to know how to handle firearms coming back in with U.S. Citizens? One other short note, when leaving New Zealand, I had forgotten my small folding pocket knife in my pants pocket. Going through security, I was fully expecting to have it confiscated by NZ security. The gentleman at the screening area looked at it, and gave it back to me. I asked why he didn't take it from me and he answered "We Kiwis don't get as worked up about things like pocket knives as you Americans do! That's why you don't need to remove your shoes! Have a great flight home!" When I landed in LA, TSA relieved me of my pocket knife! Funny! __________________ Go Pokes! Go Rams!

November 13, 2013, 03:09 PM	#11
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	I've heard that Costa Rica and Belize are relatively gun-friendly. However, neither has very strong protections against possible future encroachments. Our 2nd Amendment is somewhat unique. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

November 13, 2013, 01:08 AM	#3
WesternNSW Member Join Date: November 12, 2013 Location: NSW Australia Posts: 16	Mate, you don't know how lucky you are to be an American citizen. Stay and determine your future.

November 13, 2013, 02:34 AM	#5
Tejicano Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2013 Posts: 168	From my experience travelling in and living in other countries there really are three categories to consider : ownership, carrying, and use for self-defense. And then there is how far the law actually goes in enforcing/changing behavior. And let's keep the discussion to average citizens - forget outright criminals or the politically connected. For instance, in Switzerland firearms ownership is regulated but just about anything can be legally owned. Self-defence would probably allowed but I expect you would have to go to trial. From what I understand carry licenses are "NYC" style issue. Another completely different example - Mexico. Private ownership is regulated to the extent that it is almost impossible. However, at least in the northern states, it is widespread. People might carry if they expect problems - but a carry license is "NYC" style issue. In Cambodia ownership/carrying is technically illegal but - especially away from the city centers - some people still have, and sometimes carry, handguns and select fire rifles. I know that in the Czech republic handgun ownership and legal CCW is regulated but not too difficult. I know that firearms ownership (handguns and long arms) is regulated but possible in most of western Europe but legal CCW seems to generally be "NYC" style. I expect it may have changed but in Russia 20 years ago in one three week trip across the country I saw a few people carrying - either a "Krinkov" (not a term used by Russians) or a handgun in the belt or in the car at hand. Not legal but... In most of East Asia not only is ownership highly restricted - generally handguns are completely illegal - but use of a legally registered long gun for self-defence will get you a long jail sentence regardless of the circumstances - self defence is not recognized. (Notable exceptions are Thailand and the Philippines - pistols are highly regulated but ownership for self defence is possible.) I know - via the internet - people in New Zealand who collect FAL's so I can say those are legal there. Legal CCW does not seem to be possible there - but I could be mis-informed on that. I have been told that sound suppressors are not regulated there - you can purchase one the same way you would purchase another barrel for your gun. The US is just about the most free country in the face of the earth when it comes to firearms. The only other places where gun laws are less restrictive are places no prudent person would go without a proper gun - Yemen and Somalia for instance.

November 13, 2013, 05:47 AM	#6
trg42wraglefragle Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 856	If you dropped the wanting to carry a weapon you would have a lot more options. I'd say New Zealand is pretty friendly to firearms. You need to get a licence to own a rifle, and then there is different categories. But anyone who legitimately wants to own one wouldn't struggle to get their licences. You definitely cannot uses a gun for self defence, but if you did use on and had the right story to back it up you could get away with it. Biggest thing you would notice in most countries is the price for gun related goods is dirt cheap on the US compared to more or less anywhere else. Just say you did move to New Zealand, I think the gun laws would be the least of your worries, as everything you have ever known and treated as the norm, will be completely different. Which would completely overwhelm any loss of "rights/liberty".

November 13, 2013, 05:49 AM	#7
trg42wraglefragle Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 856	Oh and forgot to add that suppressors are piece of cake to get a Tejicano eluded too.

November 13, 2013, 07:48 AM	#8
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	FWIW, M1911.org has been running a series of articles about gun laws in their on-line magazine ( http://ezine.m1911.org/forums.php ). They have only done three or four so far. Keep in mind, they are getting these articles from people who are shooters, and who mostly are members of M1911.org, so the articles you'll find probably represent some of the more gun-friendly countries. I know the owner of M1911.org, so I know he is already having trouble finding people to write future articles to cover other countries.

November 13, 2013, 03:20 PM	#12
Husqvarna Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2012 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,000	Finland is pretty relaxed, not cc but ownership is atleast possible without much hassle Austria to I think by european standards... I think Danmark doesn't require licenses for shotguns, france is the same IIRC

November 13, 2013, 04:14 PM	#13
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	Estonia is pretty good. Some peculiar legal aspects, but CC is possible as part of a self-defence licence. Most platforms are legally available, it is the market that limits gun owners: very few in absolute terms meaning the is little demand for more unusual stuff and what there is, is pretty expensive. As far as I know this kind of ownership scope is quite common in places such as Czech Rep, Poland (although I believe CC is not allowed). __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

November 13, 2013, 04:25 PM	#14
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	Perhaps the proper way of putting it is, "**** is pretty good, at least for owning guns." That can't, and shouldn't be, one's sole criteria for evaluating protection of civil liberties or quality of life. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

November 13, 2013, 04:31 PM	#15
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	If your referring to my post about Estonia, Tom, then the post was in the context of the OP. That being countries that friendly to guns as a part of that society. It certainly isn't my sole gauge of QoL. I didn't move here for the guns. That is a happy by-product. __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

November 13, 2013, 06:51 PM	#16
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Try Uruguay, greater % of gun owners per population than the US; add Dominican Republic, Argentina, Bolivia, Costa Rica, New Zealand (suppressors OTC) Chile I believe as well; Spain and Portugal, Scandinavia, Russia, most of Eastern Europe (former Soviet Bloc)

November 13, 2013, 07:35 PM	#17
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	Definitely NOT Chile. Some private ownership is allowed, primarily associated with club shooting. No self-defense carry, and strict limits on how many guns you can own. Not even close to the gun freedom enjoyed in probably 45 or 46 of our 50 states.

November 13, 2013, 07:38 PM	#18
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Thanks for correcting - it was one I could not remember clearly

November 13, 2013, 07:47 PM	#19
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	I think the bottom line is that if you pick the right state, we have other countries beat. Someone asks this every once in awhile as if there is some gun heaven that they can flee to when the UN comes for them. Funny - my daughter lived in Europe and become friends with a nice Swiss young man who had a fully auto Sig 550 as part of his reserve requirement. He thought it was a big pain the tushy. I told him that I would drool over it if the gun was legal here. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

November 13, 2013, 10:53 PM	#20
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	I've been watching IPSC videos and there was one in New Zealand. This puzzled me as I thought they weren't very friendly towards handguns. It was explained in the comments that to buy a handgun you have to be 16, register for a firearms license (I think sporting rifle and shotgun was the classification I was told), enroll at a local range, go to the range for a year and attend 12 club shoots, and finally get the club to vouch for you. Once all these conditions are met you may buy a handgun for sporting. I don't really ask with the mindset of finding a gun safe haven. I'm more curious about where it's legal at all to do so. I don't know if I could live in a country where I couldn't have a firearm at all unless the country was pretty great. That would be like a country that asked me to leave my bass guitars behind or didn't allow pet ownership. On the other hand, I could probably live with a place that allows semi autos even if not for carry or in the home ownership. Shooting has just become something that I love to do and it would be a pretty big decision to be somewhere that I couldn't do it (or even somewhere limited to bolt action rifles and double barrel shotguns). I hear people in Germany, Spain, and Italy talk of concealed carry and it seems to be not so different from here when they speak of it. ETA: These countries do have concealed carry licenses, but not as easy as they are here. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com. Last edited by dakota.potts; November 13, 2013 at 11:00 PM.

November 14, 2013, 06:18 AM	#22
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	Switzerland: http://ezine.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=159

November 14, 2013, 11:11 PM	#25
Armed_Chicagoan Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2013 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 776	Illinois isn't even in the same league as New York. No registration of any type of gun here, no magazine capacity limits, no "assault weapon" ban, no permit required to buy a pistol. The FOID card isn't even as bad as some make it out to be, costs $10 and is good for 10 years. Except for Cook County it's actually a pro-gun state.