Electronic Triggers

urbanassault · January 26, 2006, 11:05 AM

Do you think that firearms will ever go the way of electric triggers like paintball guns? Allowing the shooter to controll his semi-burst-full modes with push of a button or allowing for "turbo" style shooting where it fires once when the trigger is pulled and once when released? They would also be able to have shot counters allowing a log of how many rds the firearm has shot and could also incorporate a warning when the magazine is low? Kindof seems rediculous just interested if any body has heard of anything like this.

fisherman66 · January 26, 2006, 02:15 PM

The US military is currently testing a weapon with a camera mounted along the site radius. The signal is "bluetoothed" to a high res eye piece. I want to say the same gun has a trigger similar to the paintball guns, but the details are fuzzy.

CypherNinja · January 26, 2006, 02:24 PM

That would probably be a nifty project for someone with an AR or something.

Imagine, if you used some sort of pressure sensor as the trigger you could dial up whatever trigger pull weight you wanted and there'd be no trigger "creep", "roll", "grittyness" or even a "break"! The trigger would just stay stationary even as the shot was fired.

Also, I wonder if that "turbo mode" would pass as semi-auto? Legally speaking its only firing one shot with each "function" of the trigger right?

urbanassault · January 26, 2006, 02:28 PM

Exactly, the same as a high end paintball marker. You can dial some of those guns (angels and such) into such light trigger pull its uncanny. Alot of paintballers also use bumpfire techniques to rapid fire but they have very good control. If you could dial the trigger down that tight you could bumpfire from a normal shooting position with pretty good control! And for competition shooting the trigger pull is always a big factor, now your trigger pull becomes the push of a tiny microswitch.

Avizpls · January 26, 2006, 02:38 PM

I would accept this on a range or comp gun, but not a defensive gun.

And i might not accept it at all, considering once the ball gets going that way.....I dont like where it could go.

"remote disable" for firearms?

urbanassault · January 26, 2006, 02:41 PM

Good point, what if we cornered the market though? What if we distributed these guns to other countries then. We could remote disable these guns.
You also cannot "remote disable" an elec. paintball gun they do not pickup radio frequencies just use electonic servos and magnets to control the trigger group.

Slateman · January 26, 2006, 11:53 PM

Hmmm . . . that would be intersting . . .

Before I propose this, I just want to say that I do have some idea of what I'm talking about. I own a couple, rather expensive paintball guns. I've played on tourneys and reffed them as well. So I have SOME idea of what I'm talking about.

A paintball gun's trigger is designed for maximum rate of fire. Things have slightly changed with the advent of solinoids, magnets, and switches. They moved to a double finger trigger to help with ROF. You alternate taping the top part with one finger and the bottom with another. This is called "walking the trigger". It is designed for the rapid fire needed to "shoot lanes" and compensate for the fact that paintball guns are not very accurate (round ball exiting a smoothbore pipe at less than 300 fps = not accurate)

I don't think that the military would want this option. Why bother when they can convert the gun to full auto?

Now, what it would be great for is single shots! Think about how much accuracy is determined by trigger control. No more 3.5 or 6lb trigger pulls. Now the trigger pull is a mouse click

Would definitely increase accuracy.

Unfortunately, electronic triggers mean batteries. Batteries die. Most electronic paintball guns run off a 9v (Some angels have their own rechargeable :barf: ). You guys have no idea how aggrevating it is to have a battery die in the middle of a game. Any gun that has an electronic grip would have to have a mechanical backup.

I don't know about the whole "remote disable" Frankly, that could end up being a rather large addition to a gun. Furthermore, like I said before, users would insist on a mechanical backup to the electronics. So you'd need something that would not only turn off the gun, but lock it up as well.

Avizpls · January 27, 2006, 04:13 AM

Im just thinking: when did anyone ever think that locks would be put on guns? Legislation can make some stupid things happen. And being in electronics, I can guarentee its possible to add that functionality in nearly zero extra space

If there were a backup, Id go for it.

urbanassault · January 27, 2006, 10:06 AM

Having your trigger pull measured in mm and ounces would be awesome!! Rather than lbs it would be night and day, yes a mech. backup would be nice but as far as target and tournament shooting.....you could recharge inbetween matches plus think about how long an angel battery lasts, now think about how many times it is fired per game, a handgun wouldnt be nearly that often!!

Paintballer · January 27, 2006, 11:17 AM

Think of the recoil! Your shoulder would fall off!
Paintball markers have no real recoil, so the 20+ balls per second is nothing as long as the hopper can keep up and the breach sensor is off.
I can rip 20bps easy on my Karnivor, but I have used a Timmy with an illeagal ramping board that was railing paint at over 30 bps.
Just think of dumping a full 30 round magazine of .308 in less than one second. Ouch.

urbanassault · January 27, 2006, 11:23 AM

With a firearm you would not be firing that fast, especially not semi auto. I was not talking about creating a rediculous "semi" auto trigger that ran faster than a full auto rather a trigger an effortless pull. Or be able to allow changing burst-fire patterns with the push of a button. Although it would be a way to creat a semi auto "replacement" for a full auto.

DTakas · January 30, 2006, 12:20 AM

Made me think of the Remington EtronX It has an electronic trigger like you guys are talking about, and electronically fires the round (no firing pin). The lesser moving parts is supposed to make it more accurate. The trigger has 36% less trigger travel, 0 creep (over-travel) and factory set to 3 lbs. I can’t seem to find it on Remington’s website but I can remember reading about it a few years back when it was new. Maybe they don’t make it anymore, maybe it never did make it to production. It would really open up the door for pairing it up with some kind of LED display for shots remaining. Would be cool to try and modify the trigger group to work in an AR. Anyway, But here’s a link to an article on it.

http://www.azod.com/shooting/Archive...0%A0EtronX.htm

raydbonz · January 30, 2006, 08:47 PM

There are already firearms with electronic triggers. Of course, they are ultra-high end international free and air pistols. Hammerli makes both a free pistol and an air pistol with an electronic trigger. They run in the $2000 neighborhood.

The triggers are great, the FP can be set to as low as about 10 grams. The air pistol has to be 500 grams per the rules. No creep or overtravel.

The biggest disadvantage for a military arm (besides the battery issue) would be the vulnerability to the EMP pulse from a nuclear weapon. That would make any electronics basically useless. That's why a backup trigger would be mandatory, just like the BIS! (Backup Iron Sights for those inclined to use an electroinc sight that would also br fried)

January 26, 2006, 11:05 AM	#1
urbanassault Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 364	Electronic Triggers Do you think that firearms will ever go the way of electric triggers like paintball guns? Allowing the shooter to controll his semi-burst-full modes with push of a button or allowing for "turbo" style shooting where it fires once when the trigger is pulled and once when released? They would also be able to have shot counters allowing a log of how many rds the firearm has shot and could also incorporate a warning when the magazine is low? Kindof seems rediculous just interested if any body has heard of anything like this. __________________ Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

January 26, 2006, 02:24 PM	#3
CypherNinja Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 114	That would probably be a nifty project for someone with an AR or something. Imagine, if you used some sort of pressure sensor as the trigger you could dial up whatever trigger pull weight you wanted and there'd be no trigger "creep", "roll", "grittyness" or even a "break"! The trigger would just stay stationary even as the shot was fired. Also, I wonder if that "turbo mode" would pass as semi-auto? Legally speaking its only firing one shot with each "function" of the trigger right? __________________ -"Those who would sacrifice a little Liberty for more Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin -"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." -James Madison "Violent videogames don't make kids violent. Hard games do."

January 26, 2006, 02:28 PM	#4
urbanassault Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 364	Exactly, the same as a high end paintball marker. You can dial some of those guns (angels and such) into such light trigger pull its uncanny. Alot of paintballers also use bumpfire techniques to rapid fire but they have very good control. If you could dial the trigger down that tight you could bumpfire from a normal shooting position with pretty good control! And for competition shooting the trigger pull is always a big factor, now your trigger pull becomes the push of a tiny microswitch. __________________ Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

January 26, 2006, 02:41 PM	#6
urbanassault Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 364	Good point, what if we cornered the market though? What if we distributed these guns to other countries then. We could remote disable these guns. You also cannot "remote disable" an elec. paintball gun they do not pickup radio frequencies just use electonic servos and magnets to control the trigger group. __________________ Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

January 27, 2006, 10:06 AM	#9
urbanassault Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 364	Having your trigger pull measured in mm and ounces would be awesome!! Rather than lbs it would be night and day, yes a mech. backup would be nice but as far as target and tournament shooting.....you could recharge inbetween matches plus think about how long an angel battery lasts, now think about how many times it is fired per game, a handgun wouldnt be nearly that often!! __________________ Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

January 26, 2006, 02:15 PM	#2
fisherman66 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2005 Location: The Woodlands TX Posts: 4,679	The US military is currently testing a weapon with a camera mounted along the site radius. The signal is "bluetoothed" to a high res eye piece. I want to say the same gun has a trigger similar to the paintball guns, but the details are fuzzy.

January 26, 2006, 02:38 PM	#5
Avizpls Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2004 Posts: 774	I would accept this on a range or comp gun, but not a defensive gun. And i might not accept it at all, considering once the ball gets going that way.....I dont like where it could go. "remote disable" for firearms?

January 26, 2006, 11:53 PM	#7
Slateman Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2005 Location: Northern VA Posts: 323	Hmmm . . . that would be intersting . . . Before I propose this, I just want to say that I do have some idea of what I'm talking about. I own a couple, rather expensive paintball guns. I've played on tourneys and reffed them as well. So I have SOME idea of what I'm talking about. A paintball gun's trigger is designed for maximum rate of fire. Things have slightly changed with the advent of solinoids, magnets, and switches. They moved to a double finger trigger to help with ROF. You alternate taping the top part with one finger and the bottom with another. This is called "walking the trigger". It is designed for the rapid fire needed to "shoot lanes" and compensate for the fact that paintball guns are not very accurate (round ball exiting a smoothbore pipe at less than 300 fps = not accurate) I don't think that the military would want this option. Why bother when they can convert the gun to full auto? Now, what it would be great for is single shots! Think about how much accuracy is determined by trigger control. No more 3.5 or 6lb trigger pulls. Now the trigger pull is a mouse click Would definitely increase accuracy. Unfortunately, electronic triggers mean batteries. Batteries die. Most electronic paintball guns run off a 9v (Some angels have their own rechargeable :barf: ). You guys have no idea how aggrevating it is to have a battery die in the middle of a game. Any gun that has an electronic grip would have to have a mechanical backup. I don't know about the whole "remote disable" Frankly, that could end up being a rather large addition to a gun. Furthermore, like I said before, users would insist on a mechanical backup to the electronics. So you'd need something that would not only turn off the gun, but lock it up as well.

January 27, 2006, 04:13 AM	#8
Avizpls Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2004 Posts: 774	Im just thinking: when did anyone ever think that locks would be put on guns? Legislation can make some stupid things happen. And being in electronics, I can guarentee its possible to add that functionality in nearly zero extra space If there were a backup, Id go for it.

January 27, 2006, 11:17 AM	#10
Paintballer Member Join Date: March 23, 2005 Posts: 58	Think of the recoil! Your shoulder would fall off! Paintball markers have no real recoil, so the 20+ balls per second is nothing as long as the hopper can keep up and the breach sensor is off. I can rip 20bps easy on my Karnivor, but I have used a Timmy with an illeagal ramping board that was railing paint at over 30 bps. Just think of dumping a full 30 round magazine of .308 in less than one second. Ouch.

January 27, 2006, 11:23 AM	#11
urbanassault Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 364	With a firearm you would not be firing that fast, especially not semi auto. I was not talking about creating a rediculous "semi" auto trigger that ran faster than a full auto rather a trigger an effortless pull. Or be able to allow changing burst-fire patterns with the push of a button. Although it would be a way to creat a semi auto "replacement" for a full auto. __________________ Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

January 30, 2006, 12:20 AM	#12
DTakas Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2005 Posts: 146	Made me think of the Remington EtronX It has an electronic trigger like you guys are talking about, and electronically fires the round (no firing pin). The lesser moving parts is supposed to make it more accurate. The trigger has 36% less trigger travel, 0 creep (over-travel) and factory set to 3 lbs. I can’t seem to find it on Remington’s website but I can remember reading about it a few years back when it was new. Maybe they don’t make it anymore, maybe it never did make it to production. It would really open up the door for pairing it up with some kind of LED display for shots remaining. Would be cool to try and modify the trigger group to work in an AR. Anyway, But here’s a link to an article on it. http://www.azod.com/shooting/Archive...0%A0EtronX.htm __________________ Let courage rise with danger, and strength with strength oppose.

January 30, 2006, 08:47 PM	#13
raydbonz Junior Member Join Date: April 2, 2002 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 6	There are already firearms with electronic triggers. Of course, they are ultra-high end international free and air pistols. Hammerli makes both a free pistol and an air pistol with an electronic trigger. They run in the $2000 neighborhood. The triggers are great, the FP can be set to as low as about 10 grams. The air pistol has to be 500 grams per the rules. No creep or overtravel. The biggest disadvantage for a military arm (besides the battery issue) would be the vulnerability to the EMP pulse from a nuclear weapon. That would make any electronics basically useless. That's why a backup trigger would be mandatory, just like the BIS! (Backup Iron Sights for those inclined to use an electroinc sight that would also br fried)