If you couldn't use guns, what weapons for room clearing & defense?

Glamdring · November 24, 2000, 09:56 AM

This is just something I have thought about from time to time. Guess I like history [military history] and time travel novels to much

Looking for ideas for "low tec" weapons.

I think short stabbing swords with shield/bucklers and some body armor for point guys backed by cross bows or short spears.

Then again a heavily armored point man might do well also, since most weapons designed to defeat heavy armor require some room to wield.

Also on a related note: what non gun type weapon would be at least potentially usefull in modern world? Only type of armor one would have to worry about would be kevlar vests so short swords and such would have some utility at typical self defense ranges, not so?

iso1 · November 24, 2000, 11:26 AM

Crossbows. Short sword. Pike. Of course, a bucket full of boiling oil is good, too.

Chindo18Z · November 24, 2000, 12:30 PM

High pressure fire hose?

Viceroy808 · November 24, 2000, 01:54 PM

Happy to be in a cybercafe - managed to sneak in some time to check out TFL

Glamdring, check out the January 2001 issue of Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement - the one with the SAR-21 on the cover. Discusses use of shields and issuance to patrol officers. Also if you can, get a copy of ... I think ... Details from a couple of months back (maybe up to half a year ago?) Discusses a modern-day gladiatorial school (we're talking swords and bucklers) set up by an archaeological research team. Lots of great info.

Might be an idea to ask some LEOs with riot control experience what their take is on it.

Mort · November 24, 2000, 03:46 PM

Well, let's see what I've got sitting around...a CS tomahawk, a Himalayan Imports khukuri, an ice axe and a brandy snifter full of pennies. And 20 knives or so stashed in various locations. I feel like my entire apartment is pretty well strategically covered.

LawDog · November 24, 2000, 06:10 PM

A pre-ban, full-auto, Class III bullmastiff.

LawDog

fubsy · November 24, 2000, 06:48 PM

a flame thrower....fubsy.

Tamara · November 24, 2000, 07:06 PM

What I want: a Pompeii-pattern gladius, but I'll settle for a Mainz-pattern...

JoshM75 · November 24, 2000, 07:52 PM

How about a Electrical grade fire extinguisher [compressed sand/ powder/grit], I knew a guy who nearly lost his eyesight when shot in the face with one, dropped him to the ground and he was in a lot of pain.

Or how about one of those Wilkerson short pruning saws or a "Yankee screwdriver" with a sharpened tip.

Nevada Fitch · November 24, 2000, 10:21 PM

I will vote for a baseball bat with a 12inch Bowie Knife for backup.Cross bow for long range encounters.oh,and don't forget to keep the chainsaw tuned up and full of gas and oil.

Edmund Rowe · November 25, 2000, 01:40 AM

Glamdring:

You probably saw my opinion already on the discussion on tomahawks: My favorite close in non-firearm weapon in a modern setting is a fixed entrenching tool.

Aluminum baseball/softball bats are a close second.

This is all assuming fighting at bad breath range. If I had a choice I'd be standing at the top of the murder hole pouring burning oil down on the enemy knights trapped by the portcullis I just dropped.

I like the chainsaw idea. Takes some prep time to start up but most people should be pretty terrified when they hear the NRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAA of the motor winding up.

Edmund

FinnishForce · November 25, 2000, 10:58 AM

Gimme a skimask, a pair of ninja boots, some tactical pajamas, and a garotte and I'll be ready to go.

If I can't have them... I'll take the standard military equipment: entrenching tool, bayonet and the Club (AKA the empty/malfunctioning assault rifle ).

Wunderwaffe · November 25, 2000, 12:08 PM

A few cases of frag grenades, heheh.

Hard Ball · November 25, 2000, 02:11 PM

Tamara:

"What I want: a Pompeii-pattern gladius"
Try Museum Replicas. They will happily sell you a high quality replica of either the early or late gldius complte with sheath.

**4V50 Gary** · November 25, 2000, 04:09 PM

I'd toss enough mace grenades in there to lower the O2 level and let them asphixiate.

Provided the intruder(s) doesn't have firearms, and I had to clear the house, my choice would be a modernized Zulu Assesgai (known as the Ickwa from the sound it made when withdrawn from the belly of the victim). The steel/iron the Zulus used was too soft and often times it would get bent and get stuck in the victim. Nah, I'm better off with the PR-24 sidehandle baton.

Bogie · November 25, 2000, 06:11 PM

I wouldn't clear the rooms. I'd call the cops. And the TV stations.

pokey074 · November 25, 2000, 06:17 PM

i'd vote for a tomahawk/hatchet after being enthralled by movies such as Last of the Mohicans, The Patriot, etc. what i want to know is where can i get a good fighting tomahawk?

Dave McC · November 25, 2000, 08:11 PM

About 4 feet of broomhandle. I learned in some of America's toughest prisons(staff, not clientele) just how much fast damage can be done with one of these.

Tamara · November 25, 2000, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Try Museum Replicas. They will happily sell you a high quality replica of either the early or late gldius complete with sheath

Tamara responds:

Get thee behind me, demon of temptation! I studiously try and keep away from Museum Replicas when I have any funds. All I really want from them is a gladius, and a spatha. And one of those new deluxe katanas- heck, make it the complete daisho. And a Swiss halberd. And a Viking-era sword. And a gothic bastard sword. And a lorica segmentata. And...

Are you beginning to grasp my dilemma?

**4V50 Gary** · November 25, 2000, 09:19 PM

For Tomahawks, try http://www.trackofthewolf.com/

Hard Ball · November 25, 2000, 10:16 PM

Tamara:

Don't forget. you need a pugio to go with your gladius!
I have to admit that their catalog is mighty tempting.

Javahed · November 26, 2000, 04:38 AM

If I couldn't use guns?

Claymore Claymore Claymore!!!

Dan

shiroikuma · November 26, 2000, 05:59 AM

Forget museaum replicas, there stuff has a bad rep. Get a Kriss Cutlery gladius or celtic leaf sword. I bought a Chinese straight sword and it is sweeeeeet.

shiro,

PS Never bring a sword to a gunfight

Bogie · November 27, 2000, 10:58 AM

Remember that thing a little while back, where the pawn shop guy from Rec.Guns had a loony ninja wannabe customer try to slice and dice him? He finally stopped it with a .25.

Leave the house, and call the cops.

Spectre · November 27, 2000, 10:59 AM

Considering I know folk who can draw and instantly disable an opponent at close range (say, 1 second total elapsed time), I don't know about the gun vs sword contest. I know some folks who are damn good with a sword, and we're getting better.

I'm partial to spears and sticks. And good knives (with a 12-16" blade length). And spears. And my ASP. And my sword. And...

I am planning on having a "modern sword" made sometime this year. It will have a 10" handle, and a 16" curved blade. I believe this is the maximum size with any degree of practicality, and the perfect size for indoor use.

November 24, 2000, 06:10 PM	#6
LawDog Staff Emeritus Join Date: September 15, 1999 Location: Where am I going? Why am I in this handbasket? Posts: 4,194	Room clearing? A pre-ban, full-auto, Class III bullmastiff. LawDog

November 24, 2000, 07:06 PM	#8
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	What I have: a 24" ASP What I want: a Pompeii-pattern gladius, but I'll settle for a Mainz-pattern... __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

November 24, 2000, 07:52 PM	#9
JoshM75 Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2000 Location: New Zealand Posts: 231	Low Tech [non gun] weapons How about a Electrical grade fire extinguisher [compressed sand/ powder/grit], I knew a guy who nearly lost his eyesight when shot in the face with one, dropped him to the ground and he was in a lot of pain. Or how about one of those Wilkerson short pruning saws or a "Yankee screwdriver" with a sharpened tip.

November 25, 2000, 02:11 PM	#14
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	Gladius Tamara: "What I want: a Pompeii-pattern gladius" Try Museum Replicas. They will happily sell you a high quality replica of either the early or late gldius complte with sheath.

November 25, 2000, 04:09 PM	#15
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Because I'm chicken and I don't wanna get hurt... I'd toss enough mace grenades in there to lower the O2 level and let them asphixiate. Provided the intruder(s) doesn't have firearms, and I had to clear the house, my choice would be a modernized Zulu Assesgai (known as the Ickwa from the sound it made when withdrawn from the belly of the victim). The steel/iron the Zulus used was too soft and often times it would get bent and get stuck in the victim. Nah, I'm better off with the PR-24 sidehandle baton.

November 24, 2000, 09:56 AM	#1
Glamdring Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2000 Location: MN Posts: 1,388	This is just something I have thought about from time to time. Guess I like history [military history] and time travel novels to much Looking for ideas for "low tec" weapons. I think short stabbing swords with shield/bucklers and some body armor for point guys backed by cross bows or short spears. Then again a heavily armored point man might do well also, since most weapons designed to defeat heavy armor require some room to wield. Also on a related note: what non gun type weapon would be at least potentially usefull in modern world? Only type of armor one would have to worry about would be kevlar vests so short swords and such would have some utility at typical self defense ranges, not so?

November 24, 2000, 11:26 AM	#2
iso1 Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 573	Crossbows. Short sword. Pike. Of course, a bucket full of boiling oil is good, too.

November 24, 2000, 12:30 PM	#3
Chindo18Z Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 1999 Posts: 498	High pressure fire hose?

November 24, 2000, 01:54 PM	#4
Viceroy808 Member Join Date: November 16, 2000 Posts: 86	Happy to be in a cybercafe - managed to sneak in some time to check out TFL Glamdring, check out the January 2001 issue of Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement - the one with the SAR-21 on the cover. Discusses use of shields and issuance to patrol officers. Also if you can, get a copy of ... I think ... Details from a couple of months back (maybe up to half a year ago?) Discusses a modern-day gladiatorial school (we're talking swords and bucklers) set up by an archaeological research team. Lots of great info. Might be an idea to ask some LEOs with riot control experience what their take is on it.

November 24, 2000, 03:46 PM	#5
Mort Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 1998 Posts: 479	Well, let's see what I've got sitting around...a CS tomahawk, a Himalayan Imports khukuri, an ice axe and a brandy snifter full of pennies. And 20 knives or so stashed in various locations. I feel like my entire apartment is pretty well strategically covered.

November 24, 2000, 06:48 PM	#7
fubsy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 1,363	a flame thrower....fubsy.

November 24, 2000, 10:21 PM	#10
Nevada Fitch Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2000 Posts: 261	I will vote for a baseball bat with a 12inch Bowie Knife for backup.Cross bow for long range encounters.oh,and don't forget to keep the chainsaw tuned up and full of gas and oil.

November 25, 2000, 01:40 AM	#11
Edmund Rowe Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: Warner Robins, GA USA Posts: 351	Glamdring: You probably saw my opinion already on the discussion on tomahawks: My favorite close in non-firearm weapon in a modern setting is a fixed entrenching tool. Aluminum baseball/softball bats are a close second. This is all assuming fighting at bad breath range. If I had a choice I'd be standing at the top of the murder hole pouring burning oil down on the enemy knights trapped by the portcullis I just dropped. I like the chainsaw idea. Takes some prep time to start up but most people should be pretty terrified when they hear the NRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAA of the motor winding up. Edmund

November 25, 2000, 10:58 AM	#12
FinnishForce Junior Member Join Date: May 11, 2000 Posts: 14	Gimme a skimask, a pair of ninja boots, some tactical pajamas, and a garotte and I'll be ready to go. If I can't have them... I'll take the standard military equipment: entrenching tool, bayonet and the Club (AKA the empty/malfunctioning assault rifle ).

November 25, 2000, 12:08 PM	#13
Wunderwaffe Member Join Date: November 23, 2000 Posts: 51	A few cases of frag grenades, heheh.

November 25, 2000, 06:11 PM	#16
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	I wouldn't clear the rooms. I'd call the cops. And the TV stations.

November 25, 2000, 06:17 PM	#17
pokey074 Member Join Date: October 28, 2000 Location: South Dakota Posts: 64	i'd vote for a tomahawk/hatchet after being enthralled by movies such as Last of the Mohicans, The Patriot, etc. what i want to know is where can i get a good fighting tomahawk?

November 25, 2000, 08:11 PM	#18
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	About 4 feet of broomhandle. I learned in some of America's toughest prisons(staff, not clientele) just how much fast damage can be done with one of these.

November 25, 2000, 09:19 PM	#20
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	For Tomahawks, try http://www.trackofthewolf.com/

November 25, 2000, 10:16 PM	#21
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	Tamara: Don't forget. you need a pugio to go with your gladius! I have to admit that their catalog is mighty tempting.

November 26, 2000, 04:38 AM	#22
Javahed Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Posts: 68	If I couldn't use guns? Claymore Claymore Claymore!!! Dan __________________ Go Get em Gear

November 26, 2000, 05:59 AM	#23
shiroikuma Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2000 Posts: 331	Forget museaum replicas, there stuff has a bad rep. Get a Kriss Cutlery gladius or celtic leaf sword. I bought a Chinese straight sword and it is sweeeeeet. shiro, PS Never bring a sword to a gunfight

November 27, 2000, 10:58 AM	#24
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	Remember that thing a little while back, where the pawn shop guy from Rec.Guns had a loony ninja wannabe customer try to slice and dice him? He finally stopped it with a .25. Leave the house, and call the cops.

November 27, 2000, 10:59 AM	#25
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	At What Range? Considering I know folk who can draw and instantly disable an opponent at close range (say, 1 second total elapsed time), I don't know about the gun vs sword contest. I know some folks who are damn good with a sword, and we're getting better. I'm partial to spears and sticks. And good knives (with a 12-16" blade length). And spears. And my ASP. And my sword. And... I am planning on having a "modern sword" made sometime this year. It will have a 10" handle, and a 16" curved blade. I believe this is the maximum size with any degree of practicality, and the perfect size for indoor use.