Just got an old shotgun, bad barrel

Keepin_Jeepin · January 20, 2013, 09:59 PM

So I just got a really oldie from a friend of mine. The barrel is in extremely bad shape in the bore. Looks fine on the outside. Its got lines/scrapes/pits in it bad, I would say not even salvageable.

My question is though how bad does it affect shotgun shells? When is it in bad enough condition that it affects how it shoots? because of the plastic wad I am inclined to say it probably wont affect it all that much. Where as the guy that gave it to me said just cut the barrel down and use cut shells.

So if I were to do that what is the legality of cutting it down? It does not have a serial number on it. Altough its a remington so I dont know why I couldnt find it. I tonight and had to look at it with a flash light so maybe that is why I am going out to clean it and see what happens now

Rainbow Demon · January 20, 2013, 10:14 PM

If the barrel walls are thick enough ream it and polish it.
I've reamed a couple using a step reamer I found cheap at a salvage store. It has a shank I can turn using a socket wrench with extensions.

You can ream a 12 gauge a couple of hundreths oversize without adversely affecting function, even with old style card wads. The modern plastic shot cups seal even better than wadding ever did.

Some like to back bore new barrels so its not an uncommon procedure. This is also handy for restoring choke to a cut down barrel.

Serial numbers were not required on shotguns (or .22 rifles) by law till the 50's. Most manufacturers used serial numbers soley to keep track of the gun during manufacture to regulate quality control.
Others used the numbers to keep track of which wholesaler or retailer got what.

I've heard of dealers stamping their own numbers on some old guns and registering them with the BATF, but I don't think its necessary for an owner to do so.

Keepin_Jeepin · January 21, 2013, 12:17 AM

Very interesting. Thanks for the information. I want to keep it around because the action and the trigger on it feel so good, and it looks so good. I will need to get a picture.

How thick does the barrel need to be? I find it to be very thin walled. Similary I think there is too much damage a few hundredths would not help I do not think

James K · January 21, 2013, 12:49 AM

What model is the gun? Barrels can be easily obtained for many of the newer Remington pumps and autoloaders, and if the gun is otherwise in good shape that might be a possibility.

If the barrel is really pitted, I would not suggest reaming it; it is not hard to cut right through thin shotgun barrels, and in any case, reaming would probably take the choke out of it.

FWIW, the serial number requirement was part of the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Jim

Rainbow Demon · January 21, 2013, 01:00 AM

If worse comes to worst a badly pitted barrel with walls too thin to be reamed can be relined to a smaller gauge, such as a 20 gauge liner in a 12 gauge barrel.

The ready made barrel liners I've seen were a bit too expensive for my uses. Those were Browning made liners sold with top grade Trap or Skeet guns.

If an old double its likely the barrels are too thin to be reamed. I ran across an older Remington double that had been reamed far oversize and one barrel had split down the side.
Cutting the old thin barrels can pose another problem. Many such barrels are "Swamped" thicker at the muzzle than further back. When the thicker muzzle portion is cut away the thin barrel walls at the new muzzle can split under modern loads. That can happen with a barrel in otherwise good condition.

Keepin_Jeepin · January 21, 2013, 03:31 AM

Here is the shotgun. There is a serial. However there is nothing to identify the model. I tried to get some bore shots but that was very difficult

Keepin_Jeepin · January 21, 2013, 03:32 AM

and here is the muzzle thickness for good measure

drcook · January 21, 2013, 01:24 PM

you might be surprised on how a hone could smooth that out. If it was me, I would either take it to a smith and have him try to hone it, or get a hone yourself and spend a little time with a drill motor, the hone and some oil

what looks awful bad magnified, isn't as bad in real life. also what you could be seeing is accumulation/build up of crud from time/shooting/lack of good cleaning

this is an example of the kind of hone I am talking about

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/147...ge-12-800-grit

Doyle · January 21, 2013, 01:34 PM

I don't think that is nearly bad enough to hone. First, do some serious cleaning to make sure what you are seeing isn't crud buildup. 2nd, get some Flitz and a bore mop. Chuck it up in a drill and polish up and down the barrel. Clean out the Flitz and go enjoy the old gal.

Keepin_Jeepin · January 21, 2013, 02:14 PM

Thanks for the advice. Is this gun worth fixing up? Any idea what its worth? That hone is 35 dollars. I only paid 50 for the whole rifle.

Can anyone tell me anything about the model other than its old lol

Doyle · January 21, 2013, 03:39 PM

Like I said - don't hone. A bore mop is something that you should have in your box anyway. So is a container of Flitz or Bore Shine. They are only a couple of bucks at Wallyworld. A container of Flitz is only a few bucks too.

Yes, the old gal is worth cleaning up but I wouldn't put any money into "fixing" anything really broken. It isn't worth a lot of money. I'd say the $50 you paid is about right.

scattergun98908 · January 21, 2013, 11:24 PM

A good scrubbing with a bore brush after soaking it for a while with break-free or something simular should help clean it up. Even if the barrel has some pitting it will still shoot fine and be alot of fun. Enjoy the new toy.

BillM · January 21, 2013, 11:54 PM

I believe what you have there is a Remington Rider No. 3 shotgun.

87,000+ made from 1893-1903.

You got a deal at $50, it's probably closer to a $125-$150 value.

Your bore looks more like buildup than damage. I use a copper pot
scrubber pad on a rod and a cordless drill, with a liberal application
of Kroil or Ed's Red for bores gunked up like that.

January 20, 2013, 09:59 PM	#1
Keepin_Jeepin Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2007 Location: Chelan Posts: 161	Just got an old shotgun, bad barrel So I just got a really oldie from a friend of mine. The barrel is in extremely bad shape in the bore. Looks fine on the outside. Its got lines/scrapes/pits in it bad, I would say not even salvageable. My question is though how bad does it affect shotgun shells? When is it in bad enough condition that it affects how it shoots? because of the plastic wad I am inclined to say it probably wont affect it all that much. Where as the guy that gave it to me said just cut the barrel down and use cut shells. So if I were to do that what is the legality of cutting it down? It does not have a serial number on it. Altough its a remington so I dont know why I couldnt find it. I tonight and had to look at it with a flash light so maybe that is why I am going out to clean it and see what happens now

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January 20, 2013, 10:14 PM	#2
Rainbow Demon Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2012 Posts: 397	If the barrel walls are thick enough ream it and polish it. I've reamed a couple using a step reamer I found cheap at a salvage store. It has a shank I can turn using a socket wrench with extensions. You can ream a 12 gauge a couple of hundreths oversize without adversely affecting function, even with old style card wads. The modern plastic shot cups seal even better than wadding ever did. Some like to back bore new barrels so its not an uncommon procedure. This is also handy for restoring choke to a cut down barrel. Serial numbers were not required on shotguns (or .22 rifles) by law till the 50's. Most manufacturers used serial numbers soley to keep track of the gun during manufacture to regulate quality control. Others used the numbers to keep track of which wholesaler or retailer got what. I've heard of dealers stamping their own numbers on some old guns and registering them with the BATF, but I don't think its necessary for an owner to do so.

January 21, 2013, 12:17 AM	#3
Keepin_Jeepin Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2007 Location: Chelan Posts: 161	Very interesting. Thanks for the information. I want to keep it around because the action and the trigger on it feel so good, and it looks so good. I will need to get a picture. How thick does the barrel need to be? I find it to be very thin walled. Similary I think there is too much damage a few hundredths would not help I do not think

January 21, 2013, 12:49 AM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	What model is the gun? Barrels can be easily obtained for many of the newer Remington pumps and autoloaders, and if the gun is otherwise in good shape that might be a possibility. If the barrel is really pitted, I would not suggest reaming it; it is not hard to cut right through thin shotgun barrels, and in any case, reaming would probably take the choke out of it. FWIW, the serial number requirement was part of the Gun Control Act of 1968. Jim

January 21, 2013, 01:00 AM	#5
Rainbow Demon Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2012 Posts: 397	If worse comes to worst a badly pitted barrel with walls too thin to be reamed can be relined to a smaller gauge, such as a 20 gauge liner in a 12 gauge barrel. The ready made barrel liners I've seen were a bit too expensive for my uses. Those were Browning made liners sold with top grade Trap or Skeet guns. If an old double its likely the barrels are too thin to be reamed. I ran across an older Remington double that had been reamed far oversize and one barrel had split down the side. Cutting the old thin barrels can pose another problem. Many such barrels are "Swamped" thicker at the muzzle than further back. When the thicker muzzle portion is cut away the thin barrel walls at the new muzzle can split under modern loads. That can happen with a barrel in otherwise good condition.

January 21, 2013, 03:31 AM	#6
Keepin_Jeepin Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2007 Location: Chelan Posts: 161	Here is the shotgun. There is a serial. However there is nothing to identify the model. I tried to get some bore shots but that was very difficult

January 21, 2013, 03:32 AM	#7
Keepin_Jeepin Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2007 Location: Chelan Posts: 161	and here is the muzzle thickness for good measure

January 21, 2013, 01:24 PM	#8
drcook Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2009 Posts: 285	you might be surprised on how a hone could smooth that out. If it was me, I would either take it to a smith and have him try to hone it, or get a hone yourself and spend a little time with a drill motor, the hone and some oil what looks awful bad magnified, isn't as bad in real life. also what you could be seeing is accumulation/build up of crud from time/shooting/lack of good cleaning this is an example of the kind of hone I am talking about http://www.midwayusa.com/product/147...ge-12-800-grit

January 21, 2013, 01:34 PM	#9
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	I don't think that is nearly bad enough to hone. First, do some serious cleaning to make sure what you are seeing isn't crud buildup. 2nd, get some Flitz and a bore mop. Chuck it up in a drill and polish up and down the barrel. Clean out the Flitz and go enjoy the old gal.

January 21, 2013, 02:14 PM	#10
Keepin_Jeepin Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2007 Location: Chelan Posts: 161	Thanks for the advice. Is this gun worth fixing up? Any idea what its worth? That hone is 35 dollars. I only paid 50 for the whole rifle. Can anyone tell me anything about the model other than its old lol

January 21, 2013, 03:39 PM	#11
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Like I said - don't hone. A bore mop is something that you should have in your box anyway. So is a container of Flitz or Bore Shine. They are only a couple of bucks at Wallyworld. A container of Flitz is only a few bucks too. Yes, the old gal is worth cleaning up but I wouldn't put any money into "fixing" anything really broken. It isn't worth a lot of money. I'd say the $50 you paid is about right.

January 21, 2013, 11:24 PM	#12
scattergun98908 Member Join Date: January 21, 2013 Location: Eastern Washington state Posts: 20	A good scrubbing with a bore brush after soaking it for a while with break-free or something simular should help clean it up. Even if the barrel has some pitting it will still shoot fine and be alot of fun. Enjoy the new toy.

January 21, 2013, 11:54 PM	#13
BillM Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Amity Oregon Posts: 791	I believe what you have there is a Remington Rider No. 3 shotgun. 87,000+ made from 1893-1903. You got a deal at $50, it's probably closer to a $125-$150 value. Your bore looks more like buildup than damage. I use a copper pot scrubber pad on a rod and a cordless drill, with a liberal application of Kroil or Ed's Red for bores gunked up like that.