Gunsmith frustrations. (rant)

VaughnT · November 3, 2002, 06:18 PM

About two weeks later, I stopped in to see how it was going, knowing that parts had to be ordered and there wasn't much that could have been done. Sure enough, he had accidentally ordered the wrong trigger bow and the delay would be about a week or so. A simply typo isn't a problem and I wasn't in any hurry to get the gun back.

Now comes October 3. I call him from work to see what's going on and when I can expect delivery. He says he's had some problems and he should have it done in, "a week or so".

That's fine. People have personal issues that often interfere with work. I wasn't in a hurry. Another week or two isn't a problem.

Well, I get the message from the boss that I'm slated to head to NC for some training and I want to take my .45 to qualify with it instead of my .357 Smith. I call and call and call. Always get the machine and leave several messages explaining my situation. I need the gun, now, so I can get to the range and familiarize myself with it again.

No return calls. No messages on the home phone. I can't catch him at his shop because he's frequently not there during his posted hours of operation!

Finally, I manage to catch him today (11-3-02). It was chance, pure and simple, as his shop was closed but I noted his car parked out front. I stopped in. Knocked on the door. Walked around to the other door. Came back to the first door only to find him looking around with a Glock in his hand. Don't know what he was thinking, but....

Anyhow, I ask if my gun is ready. I'm ready to pay for it and go. He says it's fully disassembled. I say that's fine. I'll be more than happy to take it "as is" and put it together myself. He says he hasn't figured out the bill and I can't have it until he does.

Remember, he has a glock in his hand (now moved behind his back in a safe manner) so I'm not arguing. I tell him that I have to have the weapon back so I can qualify with it and I'll be back to pick it up tuesday afternoon.

I still don't know what he's going to charge me for labor, but I'm plenty pissed at this treatment. I had heretofore spoken well of this guy and his shop, but I think that's come to an end. I would have gladly bought that Knight's AR15 from him, and a few knives, and more Wilson mags.... Now I'm left steaming!

All I wanted was to be a nice guy and pay him back a little for the time he gave me. All he had to do was replace the springs, guiderod and trigger (drop-in stuff, really), and file a bit on the grip safety. There is nothing complicated in what I asked. There's no fancy machinework called for. All parts should have been in long ago. This is not a month-plus job, and the attitude just doesn't cut it!

Considering how I've been treated by gunstore owners/smiths lately, it'll be a long time before I give business to this industry again. @&)^#!!!

Old Fuff · November 3, 2002, 07:15 PM

First off, I’m sorry this happened to you. I happen to work as a handgun editor for an industry trade outfit and I agree that things like this don’t help anyone’s image. The following are some suggestions that may help - anyway I hope so.

Log onto to the following site: www.brownells.com This is a big gunsmith supply house and their catalog contains just about anything you can think of in after-market accessories, tools and how-to publications. In the future you can order parts and accessories yourself, and in many cases follow the enclosed instructions to install “drop-in” stuff. If you get stuck they have a technical help line with excellent advise. If you tell them what you want too do they can (and will) tell you how to go about it.

If you need something more complicated then you can handle yourself contact a gunsmith that specializes in the particular firearm you need worked on. If you don’t know any, a question posted right here will bring some fast answers. Also a specialist will likely have the necessary parts or accessories on hand and not have to order them.

I’m afraid it’s pretty late in the game too do anything now, but I would go in and get the gun tomorrow. At this point if the (so-called) gunsmith tries to rush the job a bad situation may get worse. When you get back pick up the pieces and start over. If there is anything I can do to help I will.

James K · November 3, 2002, 09:57 PM

I will assist too, if possible.

To be honest, when I worked as a gunsmith, we had much more of the opposite problem. People simply refused to come in and pick up completed work, even after dozens of calls and postcards. We sold some of the stuff after 3 years and THEN they came in and ranted; we had to point to the terms on the slip which said we could dispose of after 1 year.

Jim

Al Thompson · November 4, 2002, 08:37 PM

Hey Vaughn, who was this guy? Those of us in SC would like to know..

VaughnT · November 5, 2002, 07:16 PM

It seems that the first half of my post was cut off for some reason so I'll update.

September 14: Colt 1991 is dropped off at Price's Firearms in Greenwood SC, for some simple work. Replace flgr&plug with standard. Reshape grip safety. Install Infinity trigger. Replace springs all around.

October 3: Phone call gets me a "nother week or so". This isn't a problem as I was in no real hurry for it. He accidentally ordered the wrong trigger bow (a simple, understandable error) and that adds time to the project.

October 21: My Mgr notifies me that I'm heading to Charlotte for some firearms schooling in the second week of November. Sometime after this, before the end of the week, I call Brian's shop to let him know that I need the pistol back, ASAP. I explain what I can on the machine and hope to hear from him soon.

November 3: I have left several messages trying to find out about my gun. By shearest luck, I catch him in his shop (I was driving by on the way to Lowe's) and ask for my weapon. He says that he can't give it to me because it's detail-stripped and he hasn't made up a bill for the labor. |||||| though I did surprise him, he had plenty of warning that I wanted my pistol back. By this time, a full month has passed since he told me he needed, "another week or so". ||||||

November 5: I drove by his shop at 12:15pm. Nobody's home and I'm a bit pissed. I had to stop downtown for a ten-year background check required by NC LE school, and talked with Major Davis (who turned out to be a very nice fellow) about what I could do to get my gun back. He took down some information and promised to look into it if I wasn't able to get my weapon back by the end of the day.

I finish at the PD and head off to do some banking, then it was down to the greasepit for a front-end alignment. Finally, I drive home, heading by Price's for a last attempt. Sure enough, he's there and I ask for my weapon back. He says, "It's right there, in pieces."

Yup. It was on his display case completely dismantled. I told him on Sunday that I would be back today for the weapon. He had two days to assemble it and he still hadn't done a thing. The only work he did on the weapon was a few swipes on the grip safety with a file. The Infinity trigger hadn't been fitted and he hadn't never even ordered the stainless recoil spring plug.

I told him to put the parts in a bag and I'll take it home to assemble. Over a month and a half has gone by and my pistol is no different than when I dropped it off.

Brian Price, of Price's Firearms in Greenwood. Good guy, neat selection, Lousy smithing services. After I get back from NC, I'll intall the parts myself.

Thanks for your support, guys. I appreciate it.

Anthony L · November 5, 2002, 11:56 PM

A 1911 trigger is not a drop-in part.

Actually, it is an item for a skilled 1911 smith to fit.
Mr. Price is not a 1911 smith. Actually, he is not even a gunsmith.
I met him once, he is a nice guy.

The problem is, in Western SC you are pretty much screwed, as there are no skilled 1911 smiths.

Contact me offline and I can steer you to a few people, but for the most part us serious 1911 shooters in the upstate learn out of necessity how to maintain our gear.

WESHOOT2 · November 6, 2002, 05:26 AM

But when in doubt suggest starting here: www.americanpistol.com

Why it exists..............

Clemson · November 6, 2002, 11:12 AM

I have heard of a 1911 smith in Anderson, SC. The guys at Grady's referred me to him when I had a question on a barrel installation. I never talked with the guy because I ended up doing the work myself, but they had me convinced that he could help if I needed it.

FWIW
Clemson

VaughnT · November 6, 2002, 09:02 PM

Clemson, that guy in Anderson, the only one I've heard of, is Skip Gilmer. His work is pretty top-notch, by my standards, and his shop is cool as you could imagine. I love going by there, but I try to stay out....too tempting. He's got that same no-time-for-peons attitude that I see in a lot of gunpeople. Aggravating, but he has the business, not me.

I'm not sure what I'll do. I know I can fit the trigger myself, just file down slowly and pray, but I would love to have an experienced smith/machinist looking over my shoulder while I borrow their shopspace (not holding my breath). Adjusting the trigger is just a question of taking your time and working through it. It's not brain surgery.

I'll have to see how things go when I get back from NC. I'm pissed, but I should have known better.

Old Fuff · November 6, 2002, 11:00 PM

There is a book on the market titled: "The Colt .45 Automatic. A Shop Manual" by Jerry Kuhnhausen. It is well illustrated and explains everything you need too know in language you can understand. Before you start working on your gun get a copy. Doing something wrong can result in an unsafe pistol - even something as simple as installing a trigger. This goes double if you use the gun as a personal weapon. Yes, there are a lot of things you can do on your own - but first you have to learn how.

November 3, 2002, 06:18 PM	#1
VaughnT Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2000 Location: Western SC Posts: 663	Gunsmith frustrations. (rant) About two weeks later, I stopped in to see how it was going, knowing that parts had to be ordered and there wasn't much that could have been done. Sure enough, he had accidentally ordered the wrong trigger bow and the delay would be about a week or so. A simply typo isn't a problem and I wasn't in any hurry to get the gun back. Now comes October 3. I call him from work to see what's going on and when I can expect delivery. He says he's had some problems and he should have it done in, "a week or so". That's fine. People have personal issues that often interfere with work. I wasn't in a hurry. Another week or two isn't a problem. Well, I get the message from the boss that I'm slated to head to NC for some training and I want to take my .45 to qualify with it instead of my .357 Smith. I call and call and call. Always get the machine and leave several messages explaining my situation. I need the gun, now, so I can get to the range and familiarize myself with it again. No return calls. No messages on the home phone. I can't catch him at his shop because he's frequently not there during his posted hours of operation! Finally, I manage to catch him today (11-3-02). It was chance, pure and simple, as his shop was closed but I noted his car parked out front. I stopped in. Knocked on the door. Walked around to the other door. Came back to the first door only to find him looking around with a Glock in his hand. Don't know what he was thinking, but.... Anyhow, I ask if my gun is ready. I'm ready to pay for it and go. He says it's fully disassembled. I say that's fine. I'll be more than happy to take it "as is" and put it together myself. He says he hasn't figured out the bill and I can't have it until he does. Remember, he has a glock in his hand (now moved behind his back in a safe manner) so I'm not arguing. I tell him that I have to have the weapon back so I can qualify with it and I'll be back to pick it up tuesday afternoon. I still don't know what he's going to charge me for labor, but I'm plenty pissed at this treatment. I had heretofore spoken well of this guy and his shop, but I think that's come to an end. I would have gladly bought that Knight's AR15 from him, and a few knives, and more Wilson mags.... Now I'm left steaming! All I wanted was to be a nice guy and pay him back a little for the time he gave me. All he had to do was replace the springs, guiderod and trigger (drop-in stuff, really), and file a bit on the grip safety. There is nothing complicated in what I asked. There's no fancy machinework called for. All parts should have been in long ago. This is not a month-plus job, and the attitude just doesn't cut it! Considering how I've been treated by gunstore owners/smiths lately, it'll be a long time before I give business to this industry again. @&)^#!!! __________________ When Reason Fails.....

November 4, 2002, 08:37 PM	#4
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Hey Vaughn, who was this guy? Those of us in SC would like to know.. __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

November 5, 2002, 07:16 PM	#5
VaughnT Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2000 Location: Western SC Posts: 663	I cannot believe it!!! It seems that the first half of my post was cut off for some reason so I'll update. September 14: Colt 1991 is dropped off at Price's Firearms in Greenwood SC, for some simple work. Replace flgr&plug with standard. Reshape grip safety. Install Infinity trigger. Replace springs all around. October 3: Phone call gets me a "nother week or so". This isn't a problem as I was in no real hurry for it. He accidentally ordered the wrong trigger bow (a simple, understandable error) and that adds time to the project. October 21: My Mgr notifies me that I'm heading to Charlotte for some firearms schooling in the second week of November. Sometime after this, before the end of the week, I call Brian's shop to let him know that I need the pistol back, ASAP. I explain what I can on the machine and hope to hear from him soon. November 3: I have left several messages trying to find out about my gun. By shearest luck, I catch him in his shop (I was driving by on the way to Lowe's) and ask for my weapon. He says that he can't give it to me because it's detail-stripped and he hasn't made up a bill for the labor. \|\|\|\|\|\| though I did surprise him, he had plenty of warning that I wanted my pistol back. By this time, a full month has passed since he told me he needed, "another week or so". \|\|\|\|\|\| November 5: I drove by his shop at 12:15pm. Nobody's home and I'm a bit pissed. I had to stop downtown for a ten-year background check required by NC LE school, and talked with Major Davis (who turned out to be a very nice fellow) about what I could do to get my gun back. He took down some information and promised to look into it if I wasn't able to get my weapon back by the end of the day. I finish at the PD and head off to do some banking, then it was down to the greasepit for a front-end alignment. Finally, I drive home, heading by Price's for a last attempt. Sure enough, he's there and I ask for my weapon back. He says, "It's right there, in pieces." Yup. It was on his display case completely dismantled. I told him on Sunday that I would be back today for the weapon. He had two days to assemble it and he still hadn't done a thing. The only work he did on the weapon was a few swipes on the grip safety with a file. The Infinity trigger hadn't been fitted and he hadn't never even ordered the stainless recoil spring plug. I told him to put the parts in a bag and I'll take it home to assemble. Over a month and a half has gone by and my pistol is no different than when I dropped it off. Brian Price, of Price's Firearms in Greenwood. Good guy, neat selection, Lousy smithing services. After I get back from NC, I'll intall the parts myself. Thanks for your support, guys. I appreciate it. __________________ When Reason Fails.....

November 5, 2002, 11:56 PM	#6
Anthony L Member Join Date: October 8, 1998 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 34	A 1911 trigger is not a drop-in part. Actually, it is an item for a skilled 1911 smith to fit. Mr. Price is not a 1911 smith. Actually, he is not even a gunsmith. I met him once, he is a nice guy. The problem is, in Western SC you are pretty much screwed, as there are no skilled 1911 smiths. Contact me offline and I can steer you to a few people, but for the most part us serious 1911 shooters in the upstate learn out of necessity how to maintain our gear. __________________ "The best defense is to keep out of range" Italian Proverb

November 6, 2002, 05:26 AM	#7
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	NO OFFENCE TO ANYONE (particularly EGW) But when in doubt suggest starting here: www.americanpistol.com Why it exists.............. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

November 3, 2002, 07:15 PM	#2
Old Fuff Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 237	First off, I’m sorry this happened to you. I happen to work as a handgun editor for an industry trade outfit and I agree that things like this don’t help anyone’s image. The following are some suggestions that may help - anyway I hope so. Log onto to the following site: www.brownells.com This is a big gunsmith supply house and their catalog contains just about anything you can think of in after-market accessories, tools and how-to publications. In the future you can order parts and accessories yourself, and in many cases follow the enclosed instructions to install “drop-in” stuff. If you get stuck they have a technical help line with excellent advise. If you tell them what you want too do they can (and will) tell you how to go about it. If you need something more complicated then you can handle yourself contact a gunsmith that specializes in the particular firearm you need worked on. If you don’t know any, a question posted right here will bring some fast answers. Also a specialist will likely have the necessary parts or accessories on hand and not have to order them. I’m afraid it’s pretty late in the game too do anything now, but I would go in and get the gun tomorrow. At this point if the (so-called) gunsmith tries to rush the job a bad situation may get worse. When you get back pick up the pieces and start over. If there is anything I can do to help I will.

November 3, 2002, 09:57 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I will assist too, if possible. To be honest, when I worked as a gunsmith, we had much more of the opposite problem. People simply refused to come in and pick up completed work, even after dozens of calls and postcards. We sold some of the stuff after 3 years and THEN they came in and ranted; we had to point to the terms on the slip which said we could dispose of after 1 year. Jim

November 6, 2002, 11:12 AM	#8
Clemson Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2001 Location: Greenwood, SC Posts: 875	I have heard of a 1911 smith in Anderson, SC. The guys at Grady's referred me to him when I had a question on a barrel installation. I never talked with the guy because I ended up doing the work myself, but they had me convinced that he could help if I needed it. FWIW Clemson __________________ NRA Endowment Member, NRA Certified Instructor CWP Holder US Army veteran Gunsmith www.boltandbarrel.com

November 6, 2002, 09:02 PM	#9
VaughnT Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2000 Location: Western SC Posts: 663	Clemson, that guy in Anderson, the only one I've heard of, is Skip Gilmer. His work is pretty top-notch, by my standards, and his shop is cool as you could imagine. I love going by there, but I try to stay out....too tempting. He's got that same no-time-for-peons attitude that I see in a lot of gunpeople. Aggravating, but he has the business, not me. I'm not sure what I'll do. I know I can fit the trigger myself, just file down slowly and pray, but I would love to have an experienced smith/machinist looking over my shoulder while I borrow their shopspace (not holding my breath). Adjusting the trigger is just a question of taking your time and working through it. It's not brain surgery. I'll have to see how things go when I get back from NC. I'm pissed, but I should have known better. __________________ When Reason Fails.....

November 6, 2002, 11:00 PM	#10
Old Fuff Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 237	There is a book on the market titled: "The Colt .45 Automatic. A Shop Manual" by Jerry Kuhnhausen. It is well illustrated and explains everything you need too know in language you can understand. Before you start working on your gun get a copy. Doing something wrong can result in an unsafe pistol - even something as simple as installing a trigger. This goes double if you use the gun as a personal weapon. Yes, there are a lot of things you can do on your own - but first you have to learn how.