1975 Citori Fixed Choke Barrel Numbers...Mean?

toolmankan · January 23, 2011, 12:20 PM

I have a 1 and a 3 marked on either barrel of my 1975 citori. I believe 3 is modified (from other posts), but can't seem to find any other information of this.
Thanks.

oneounceload · January 23, 2011, 12:50 PM

Here's a chart showing choke markings. Browning uses a * system

http://www.hallowellco.com/choke_chart.htm

jaguarxk120 · January 23, 2011, 12:54 PM

Do you have any asterisk's on the barrels? Usually Browning marks the barrels with a number of asterisk's and a dot or "$" symbol. The combination denotes the barrel's choke.

toolmankan · January 23, 2011, 12:56 PM

Nope, I've got an actual 1 stamped on the top barrel, and a 3 stamped on the bottom barrel. It's a 1975 model 12 gauge citori.

ocharry · January 23, 2011, 01:50 PM

i have one of those,,i think i bought it in the summer of "75" it is choked improved and modified,,, and the designation is **- and **

IIRC those marks are on the left side of the barrels at the chamber,,visible when you break the gun open

my .02

ocharry

toolmankan · January 23, 2011, 02:22 PM

yes, marked on the left side of the barrel. however, only visible when the fore stock is removed. A "1" on the top barrel, and a "3" on the bottom barrel. This is the 28" special steel barrel that shoots 3" shells.

zippy13 · January 23, 2011, 02:45 PM

My guess is full over modified -- a fairly common combination. The tighter chock for the longer second shot. I could be a simple as the folks making the guns for Browning didn't have any asterisk stamps in the early days.

toolmankan · January 23, 2011, 05:07 PM

That's my guess, but I wanted to know for sure. I would like to see what the breakdown of each number is. I've heard of a 3 and 5 barrel also with uncertainty as to what the chokes were there as well.

oneounceload · January 23, 2011, 05:10 PM

If you open that chart I linked to, you will see most of the various choke markings used by a variety of companies

toolmankan · January 23, 2011, 06:22 PM

yea, i read through it. However that states a skeet and improved, and I've heard from several folks that the 3 is a modified. I appreciate everyone's input....still looking for a browning specific chart if anyone has one, or a link to one.
thanks.

hogdogs · January 23, 2011, 06:26 PM

Or you could just measure the bore at the muzzle with a vermeer caliper?

Brent

oneounceload · January 23, 2011, 07:17 PM

Measuring the bores and then the chokes is the second best way.

Patterning your gun is the BEST way - it doesn't matter what the barrel says - it matters what your barrels do with the loads you are shooting through it

zippy13 · January 23, 2011, 08:46 PM

Quote:

still looking for a browning specific chart

The Hallowell chart, referenced by oneounceload, shows the same Browning star code choke markings as other references like Briley. The Citori in question doesn't have typical Browning markings.

A gun maker can chose to label his chokes in two ways: consider cylinder bore as his start (Perazzi marks cylinder bore with an O and full with a 9), or use your tightest choke as your start (Browning typical uses one star for full and three for cylinder, or, in the case of the early Citori, a number 1 instead of one star). Other makers stamp the actual diameter of the choke like 18.4 (in mm's). Traditional UK makers may mark chokes in quarters (0/4=cyl; 1/4=imp cyl; 2/4=mod; 3/4=imp mod and 4/4=full). USofA makers typically just spell out the choke markings. It you find an old Winchester with "FULL" marked on the barrel, there's no questions.

ocharry · January 24, 2011, 12:18 PM

toolmankan, my old Citori is the field model,,26",3"chambers,12 gauge and I am pretty sure i got it in the late spring or early summer of 75,, all those years ago,,IIRC,,seems I recall it was in the $230-250 price range I gave for it. It will go to my grandson one of these days and I am sure it will last his lifetime too!!

I am curious to your markings and maybe you have a transition model??

Didn't browning make that change over somewhere in late 73 to early 74??

From Belgian to Japan??

As for the quality of the Japanese guns,,the one I have has been used a lot,,still tight,,never had a problem,,I've used it for everything,,lol

Good luck figuring this out ,,if you really want to know measure the muzzle and then put it on the pattern board,,,the board does not lie,,lol

ocharry

BigJimP · January 24, 2011, 02:21 PM

Like others advised - I think your answer is easily found by measuring the barrels vs the amout of constriction in the choke area for each barrel..

The Citori went into production in 1973 - and from 1973 thru 1975 they didn't even have a set nomenclature for the serial numbers other than an H and an N for 12 and 20ga - but then, they mixed in some J's for both gagues ..../ so they had a variety of conventions when they got production of that gun started - before they got it standardized in 1976.

But it seems odd that they would stray from their typical "star"markings on the chokes. I'm wondering if you might have some kind of an after-market barrel on that receiver ?? Is the barrel plainly marked Browning ??

toolmankan · January 24, 2011, 06:18 PM

yep. All original. I'll post of pic of it in a bit.

BigJimP · January 24, 2011, 07:11 PM

Interesting ....learn something new every day ....

eddyb74 · January 24, 2011, 07:18 PM

Another thing you can do is check the muzzle with a dime and see if it corresponds with the numbers. The dime will not go into a full choke, will just go into a modified, and will have plenty of space around an improved cylinder.

oneounceload · January 24, 2011, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Another thing you can do is check the muzzle with a dime and see if it corresponds with the numbers. The dime will not go into a full choke, will just go into a modified, and will have plenty of space around an improved cylinder.

MAYBE that works on certain barrel diameters, but one must remember that a 12 can vary by .015 for bore diameters, so a dime is not necessarily a good indicator - falls in place like measuring LOP by putting the stock in the crook of your elbow

eddyb74 · January 24, 2011, 08:06 PM

I didn't mean it to be an "end all, way to check". Just a quick reference. It works on my 3 12 ga. of varying makes.

BigJimP · January 24, 2011, 08:06 PM

Many Skeet and Trap clubs - have bore gagues - that you can borrow / or ask one of the members to give you a hand and take some measurements.

It just takes a few minutes.

toolmankan · January 24, 2011, 09:57 PM

Here's a pic of the numbers as stamped on the barrel.....ok, nevermind. I keep getting an "upload failed message" ANy thoughts on what's going on there? I've uploaded before (other sites) with no problems...

All of the serial numbers match on the gun...from the fore stock, barrel, butt to the barrel. Still looking for some historical knowledge of the use of numbers and their corresponding meaning. I think the top is a modified, and the bottom is an improved....but it might be the top is a full and the bottom modified. What it is doesn't actually matter, the pattern does and I understand that. Just looking for the history of it as I find it fascinating. I've had this gun for years and shoot it well...never knew that it was a 1975 until this week when I decided to run the serial number. Got me interested in the numbers on the barrel and that history after I read the history on brownings website (which doesn't designate this numbering system...although I might email browning) and read up on some internet sites that have other info on the older citori's.

THanks for all the interest and input!!!!

johnbt · January 25, 2011, 09:39 AM

"Still looking for some historical knowledge of the use of numbers and their corresponding meaning."

Me too. I've been around guns for 50+ years and on line for 10 or 12 and all I've never run across a numbered Browning system. I love a good detective story.

JT

johnbt · January 25, 2011, 09:55 AM

On second thought, I decided that the numbers must be a carryover to the early Citoris from a (the?) system used by Miroku on the Miroku-marked guns or the guns they made for Charles Daly before FN and Miroku bought out Browning in '77 iirc.

Anyway, I was wrong. According to Wisner's, Miroku used a *- system similar to Browning's.

http://www.wisnersinc.com/additional...kusprings.html

Nuts.

oneounceload · January 25, 2011, 09:59 AM

Maybe they are aftermarket barrels by a firm who uses a different system?

I have known a few folks who have had Simmons and Baker make barrels for guns before.......?????????

January 23, 2011, 12:20 PM	#1
toolmankan Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 7	1975 Citori Fixed Choke Barrel Numbers...Mean? I have a 1 and a 3 marked on either barrel of my 1975 citori. I believe 3 is modified (from other posts), but can't seem to find any other information of this. Thanks.

January 23, 2011, 01:50 PM	#5
ocharry Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2006 Posts: 685	i have one of those,,i think i bought it in the summer of "75" it is choked improved and modified,,, and the designation is - and IIRC those marks are on the left side of the barrels at the chamber,,visible when you break the gun open my .02 ocharry __________________ The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC

January 24, 2011, 12:18 PM	#14
ocharry Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2006 Posts: 685	toolmankan, my old Citori is the field model,,26",3"chambers,12 gauge and I am pretty sure i got it in the late spring or early summer of 75,, all those years ago,,IIRC,,seems I recall it was in the $230-250 price range I gave for it. It will go to my grandson one of these days and I am sure it will last his lifetime too!! I am curious to your markings and maybe you have a transition model?? Didn't browning make that change over somewhere in late 73 to early 74?? From Belgian to Japan?? As for the quality of the Japanese guns,,the one I have has been used a lot,,still tight,,never had a problem,,I've used it for everything,,lol Good luck figuring this out ,,if you really want to know measure the muzzle and then put it on the pattern board,,,the board does not lie,,lol ocharry __________________ The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC Last edited by ocharry; January 27, 2011 at 12:18 PM.

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January 23, 2011, 12:50 PM	#2
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Here's a chart showing choke markings. Browning uses a * system http://www.hallowellco.com/choke_chart.htm

January 23, 2011, 12:54 PM	#3
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	Do you have any asterisk's on the barrels? Usually Browning marks the barrels with a number of asterisk's and a dot or "$" symbol. The combination denotes the barrel's choke.

January 23, 2011, 12:56 PM	#4
toolmankan Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 7	Nope, I've got an actual 1 stamped on the top barrel, and a 3 stamped on the bottom barrel. It's a 1975 model 12 gauge citori.

January 23, 2011, 02:22 PM	#6
toolmankan Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 7	yes, marked on the left side of the barrel. however, only visible when the fore stock is removed. A "1" on the top barrel, and a "3" on the bottom barrel. This is the 28" special steel barrel that shoots 3" shells.

January 23, 2011, 02:45 PM	#7
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	My guess is full over modified -- a fairly common combination. The tighter chock for the longer second shot. I could be a simple as the folks making the guns for Browning didn't have any asterisk stamps in the early days.

January 23, 2011, 05:07 PM	#8
toolmankan Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 7	That's my guess, but I wanted to know for sure. I would like to see what the breakdown of each number is. I've heard of a 3 and 5 barrel also with uncertainty as to what the chokes were there as well.

January 23, 2011, 05:10 PM	#9
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	If you open that chart I linked to, you will see most of the various choke markings used by a variety of companies

January 23, 2011, 06:22 PM	#10
toolmankan Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 7	yea, i read through it. However that states a skeet and improved, and I've heard from several folks that the 3 is a modified. I appreciate everyone's input....still looking for a browning specific chart if anyone has one, or a link to one. thanks.

January 23, 2011, 06:26 PM	#11
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Or you could just measure the bore at the muzzle with a vermeer caliper? Brent

January 23, 2011, 07:17 PM	#12
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Measuring the bores and then the chokes is the second best way. Patterning your gun is the BEST way - it doesn't matter what the barrel says - it matters what your barrels do with the loads you are shooting through it

January 24, 2011, 02:21 PM	#15
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Like others advised - I think your answer is easily found by measuring the barrels vs the amout of constriction in the choke area for each barrel.. The Citori went into production in 1973 - and from 1973 thru 1975 they didn't even have a set nomenclature for the serial numbers other than an H and an N for 12 and 20ga - but then, they mixed in some J's for both gagues ..../ so they had a variety of conventions when they got production of that gun started - before they got it standardized in 1976. But it seems odd that they would stray from their typical "star"markings on the chokes. I'm wondering if you might have some kind of an after-market barrel on that receiver ?? Is the barrel plainly marked Browning ??

January 24, 2011, 06:18 PM	#16
toolmankan Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 7	yep. All original. I'll post of pic of it in a bit.

January 24, 2011, 07:11 PM	#17
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Interesting ....learn something new every day ....

January 24, 2011, 07:18 PM	#18
eddyb74 Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 222	Another thing you can do is check the muzzle with a dime and see if it corresponds with the numbers. The dime will not go into a full choke, will just go into a modified, and will have plenty of space around an improved cylinder.

January 24, 2011, 08:06 PM	#20
eddyb74 Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 222	I didn't mean it to be an "end all, way to check". Just a quick reference. It works on my 3 12 ga. of varying makes.

January 24, 2011, 09:57 PM	#22
toolmankan Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2011 Posts: 7	Here's a pic of the numbers as stamped on the barrel.....ok, nevermind. I keep getting an "upload failed message" ANy thoughts on what's going on there? I've uploaded before (other sites) with no problems... All of the serial numbers match on the gun...from the fore stock, barrel, butt to the barrel. Still looking for some historical knowledge of the use of numbers and their corresponding meaning. I think the top is a modified, and the bottom is an improved....but it might be the top is a full and the bottom modified. What it is doesn't actually matter, the pattern does and I understand that. Just looking for the history of it as I find it fascinating. I've had this gun for years and shoot it well...never knew that it was a 1975 until this week when I decided to run the serial number. Got me interested in the numbers on the barrel and that history after I read the history on brownings website (which doesn't designate this numbering system...although I might email browning) and read up on some internet sites that have other info on the older citori's. THanks for all the interest and input!!!!

January 25, 2011, 09:39 AM	#23
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	"Still looking for some historical knowledge of the use of numbers and their corresponding meaning." Me too. I've been around guns for 50+ years and on line for 10 or 12 and all I've never run across a numbered Browning system. I love a good detective story. JT

January 25, 2011, 09:55 AM	#24
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	On second thought, I decided that the numbers must be a carryover to the early Citoris from a (the?) system used by Miroku on the Miroku-marked guns or the guns they made for Charles Daly before FN and Miroku bought out Browning in '77 iirc. Anyway, I was wrong. According to Wisner's, Miroku used a *- system similar to Browning's. http://www.wisnersinc.com/additional...kusprings.html Nuts.

January 25, 2011, 09:59 AM	#25
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Maybe they are aftermarket barrels by a firm who uses a different system? I have known a few folks who have had Simmons and Baker make barrels for guns before.......?????????