Bank Carry

[wally626]

I am doing some research on carry in sensitive places. I think the current federal laws on carry are too restrictive as most federal buildings do not need to restrict carry of weapons. I would like to send my representatives a proposal to amend USC TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 930 to greatly reduce the forbidden zones. One argument I hope to make is that Post Offices are no different than banks and few states ban carry in banks. I searched the threads here and found only a ban mentioned in SC, the IRA website summaries only list Nebraska as banning carry in Banks, and of course IL and WI which ban all carry. The SC ban is a blanket ban on carry on private property without permission, there may be some other states that also fit this bill. Arkansas appears to require prior permission for private homes but not businesses. Of course in most state the banks themselves as private property owners can ban carry but I am more interested in what the Governments allow or disallow not specific bank policy

Question? Do states other than Nebraska have specific bans on bank carry? Do states other than SC have specific bans on private property carry without prior permission?

[BGutzman]

I havent researched it but given the way they are I would say the state of Calfornia, but that goes without saying.

[Technosavant]

MO does not list banks as prohibited locations. Our law does allow private businesses to post no carry signs if they so choose. In my experience, the larger banks (the national ones like US Bank and Bank of America) do not post, while regional banks (credit unions, smaller chains) often do.

[Powermwt]

California has no restrictions on banks or schools. The only item listed on mine is I cannot be intoxicated.

They do stress the standard Federal issues... Airports beyond security, Federal buildings, polling places and such.

[Gary Slider]

Carry in Post Offices is not covered under the Federal Law on Carrying in Federal Buildings. The Post Offices are not Federal Buildings. The Postal Service has its own section in Federal Law that pertains to carrying firearms on Postal Property.

Can I legally carry in the Post Office?
Answer: No Carry On Post Officer Property Fed Reg

Title 39 - Postal Service
Chapter I - United States Postal Service
Subchapter D - Organization and Administration
Part 232 - Conduct on Postal Property
232.1 - Conduct on Postal Property.

Paragraph L
(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

[wally626]

Thanks Gary, for the specific Post Office regulation, will add to letter of things to eliminate from federal law when I get around to writing the letter.

[Don H]

Originally Posted by Powermwt

They do stress the standard Federal issues... Airports beyond security, Federal buildings, polling places and such.

There is no federal law prohibiting carrying firearms in polling places.

[knight0334]

Here is all of PA's. Banks are not specifically forbidden. But like any private property, the owner/tenant cant post it and then trespass laws take effect.

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...nsylvania.html

[knight0334]

that should have been "can post it" above. dang fingers..

[JasonG]

You're mostly right on SC.
They specifically ban Bank carry along with the private permission bit.
Nothing like disarming people carrying a pile of cash

[wally626]

Re-read the SC summary on the NRA site, yep Financial Institutions are listed as banned, but most other businesses only if a sign is posted. Maybe another state had the total ban, will have to look through again and search on financial not just banks

[doctruptwn]

In Kansas there is no blanket ban. The individual banks have to post a AG approved gunbuster if they do not want folks carring in the bank. Any property owner is allowed to post their property however the law only covers the building itself. Parking lots and open areas cannot be posted.

[Edward429451]

What? No one armed in the bank? huh. I always figured that everyone was armed pretty much. Making bank deposits without a gun? Who does that?
I don't the the tellers have guns. I know the securit guard has no gun (Never understood that) Someone has to have a gun.

[blume357]

This is not so. Post offices are specifically listed as no carry in S.C. law but not banks as far as I know it. They must be posted and what is interesting about S.C. law is the no carry sign must meet the exact letter of the law in size, shape and what is on it and where it is placed.

My bank has a 'no concealed weapons' sign on the front door but it does not meet the letter of the S.C. law and so I can disregard it.

[MadHatter1]

NC also prohibits CCW in financial institutions. But then again, NC has the most insane list of restrictions on CCW that I've ever seen... funerals, polling stations, parades, a 'place of public assembly where a fee is charged for admission', any space occupied by state or federal employees, state occupied property...

[1911rocks]

I'm astounded with the level of restrictions in the Carolinas. I live in Indiana and Florida. Compared to the Carolinas IN & FL are like AZ. For some reason I thought that the Southern states would be more gun friendly. I learn something everyday

[NavyLT]

Originally Posted by JasonG

You're mostly right on SC.
They specifically ban Bank carry along with the private permission bit.
Nothing like disarming people carrying a pile of cash

Woulld you please post a citation to the law that backs up your claim? I believe you are mistaken. The following statute only requires permission to enter a dwelling or a residence. A bank is neither a dwelling or a residence.

SECTION 23-31-225. Carrying concealed weapons into residences or dwellings.

No person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal control or possession, as appropriate. A person who violates this provision is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years.

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t23c031.htm

Originally Posted by blum357

This is not so. Post offices are specifically listed as no carry in S.C. law

I could not find the Post Office prohibition in S.C. statutes either, although carry/storage of firearms on Post Office property is specifically prohibited in the Code of Federal Regulations.

[wally626]

My mistake on SC I must have clicked on NC on the map, they do prohibit carry in banks.

[apr1775]

Here we go again...

Title 39 - Postal Service
Chapter I - United States Postal Service
Subchapter D - Organization and Administration
Part 232 - Conduct on Postal Property
232.1 - Conduct on Postal Property.

Paragraph L
(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

This cited section is from the Code of Federal Regulations not the United States Code. Stuff in the USC was passed by Congress; stuff in the CFR was written by the head of various federal departments or agencies. Look up the above citation, it will have listed a statute passed by Congress as it's authority. I looked this one up a year or so ago and found the empowering statute to be one where Congress is giving the head official in the postal service authority to set work place policies. I am not a postal employee, so the Postmaster General does not have the authority to criminalize my behavior. "person" should be read as post employee, official, contractor, etc. The legislative branch passes laws; the executive branch carries out those laws.

I'm not a lawyer, nor am I giving legal advice. I'm just drawing from my personal experience and research.

[NavyLT]

Post Office regulations regarding conduct on their property applies to non-employees of the Post Office as well. For complete details, including case law example, see:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...9&postcount=24

and

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...9&postcount=25

[RETG]

apri1775

Since you are so sure this is not illegal to carry into a post office, will you be willing to be a test case? I know plenty of people who have wanted to test this in court. But not volunteers.

In addition, 36 CFR was the code set that made carrying a weapon into a National Park illegal until overturned last year (took effect this year).

[kilimanjaro]

I would think a federal employee should be able to tell folks they don't have a postal box available, or their social security is fouled up, or something folks don't want to hear without having otherwise sane citizens pulling guns on them and waving them in their faces.

[Edward429451]

If the's no incident then the law doesn't apply (sic)

[apr1775]

apri1775

Since you are so sure this is not illegal to carry into a post office, will you be willing to be a test case? I know plenty of people who have wanted to test this in court. But not volunteers.

YES!!!!

If you can cover all my legal fees and loss of wages while this is going on, I'll do it. For now I have to attend to boring things like paying my mortgage. I've told my friends that if I were to become independently wealthy, I'd become Mr "Test Case".

[Edward429451]

WHats so big feat about carrying into a post office? I hrmmp hear of people carrying in there everyday. No test case needed.
Ih I bet you want someone to get caught with a gun in the PO! Good luck, concealed means concealed