All outta Bullseye. Not getting any more.

[Mike Irwin]

The one handgun powder that I will NEVER drop is WW 231.

I've been reloading with it since the early 1980s.

Another powder that I would throw down and fight to keep is Trail Boss.

[briandg]

I spent weeks agonizing on a powder to use for .38 and 9 mm maybe twenty or thirty years ago.

Now get this. The three candidates were 231, bullseye, and HP 38.

231 and hp 38 are identical, right? Back then, they were listed in two different data charts, hodgdon and winchester,. This was my first run at reloading pistols. I finally decided against flake bullseye, and spent another week hemming and hawing, then flipped a coin, and as soon as I sent that order, I started having second thoughts to the point that I eventually gave away the 231 and bought the hp 38. it seemed funny that they were so similar.

[Mike Irwin]

They are identical now, yes.

It was always the subject of much debate if they have always been identical, though.

[briandg]

This same tendency makes buying a six pack of beer difficult. I generally just eliminate anything over $8 and then spend ten minutes deciding what sounds best out of the remaining stock.

Doesn't work for powder.

[Slamfire]

They are identical now, yes.

It was always the subject of much debate if they have always been identical, though.

Without pressure gauges and chronographs, how would we know the difference? Before this became common knowledge, I tested W296 and H110 in the 44 Magnum and came to the conclusion that they were the same powder, the only differences were due to lot differences.

It just shows the knowledge asymmetry the Industry has over shooters. I am currently reading about Agnotology : the study of culturally induced ignorance or doubt (sic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnotology It is in no one's benefit to educate the shooting community, and HP-38/W231; H110/W296 are excellent examples of how manufacturer's are able to maximize profit by with holding information from the shooting community. I have a Handloader magazine article by Ken Warner. In testing the 45 ACP he praised to high heaven HP-38 but in the article, says he had "given up" on W231. Now we know these are the same powders, so it calls into question whether Ken knew this, and therefore was shilling for Hodgdon, or whether Ken was able to shoot straight enough not to see a difference. Regardless of who wrote what article, I am certain the gun literature of the past 50 years is loaded with comparisons of these powders, one article Hodgdon beating the same powder in a Winchester can, and another article, the Winchester beating the same powder in a Hodgdon can.

[briandg]

Agnotology : the study of culturally induced ignorance or doubt

A very complicated way to say "letting the people make informed decisions is a stupid idea."

I'm nearing sixty, and I honestly can't remember when I first realized that this was an enormous, nation wide, earth shaking problem

One that really sticks out was when I asked how big the large pizza was and was told "8 slices." That's how they measured them. 8, 6, small.

[briandg]

Ken warner didnt have any credibility with me. He wasn't really an expert at anything, he was just an editor. He suggested that people could shoot 180 grain lead bullets at high power loads with 4831. "shoot cast bullets hot!"
John amber was the editor of the book, and seriously, he put a warning over the title. something like "None of the data or information included in this story are confirmed and readers are cautioned to experiment with this information at their own risk"

Never saw that on any other articles.

Going over his work day after day as a younger guy i noticed a lot of that same stuff. all he was was a writer.

[Metal god]

Agnotology : the study of culturally induced ignorance or doubt

Politicians do this for a living . I'll refrain from saying which major party I feel does it more and better then any in history

One that really sticks out was when I asked how big the large pizza was and was told "8 slices." That's how they measured them. 8, 6, small.

That reminds me of the old joke

Guy orders large pizza ,

Pizza maker ask would you like that cut in 6 or 8 slices

Guy says 6 slices please , I don't think I can eat 8

[TfflHndn]

I guess I'm the one swimming against the flow. I haven't found any HP-38 loads that I like better than other powders I use. So it doesn't come off the shelf much. OTOH, I love Longshot for .45 auto jacketed loads and WSF for high-pressure loads (.327 mag, .40 s&w). I'd trade HP-38 or Unique away for any of a dozen other powders. In fact, I've been loading Unique in 12 ga. shells lately just to use it up. I'm unlikely to buy it again. Powders I would not be happy to run out of include WST, Red Dot, AA#5 and HS-6.

[briandg]

With literally hundreds available it's not surprising that you can find superior results from one product than another equally reliable product. If I could find a ball powder that functioned as well as 4350 in my .243 I'd change, and tell the world about it. I could never afford to go through them pound by pound until I found it.

[Rifletom]

Hmm. We've all gone thru the powder trials. It seems we keep going back to what worked in the first place! With all these new powders out there, I keep going back to and using in my two pistols: .38spl Unique or "Clays". .45acp, again, Unique or "Clays". Glad I have a 4 lb'er of Clays! Rifle's: H4350, H4831sc, and 748. Simply things that worked before and all is good.

[hapaxl]

The nice thing about Unique for 9mm is there is absolutely no danger of a double charge -- I can barely get a single 5 gr. charge in the case

[A pause for the COZ]

Bullseye is my favorite pistol powder. I use it in 45acp, .380 and 32L.

I think I am down to my last 1/2 pound. Most loads I have been able to substitute Reddot or Promo. I think I have 20 pounds of that combo so should be ok for a while.
But I will buy some Bullseye if ever I see it again. Been three years now so not holding my breath.

[TfflHndn]

Recob's has Bullseye in 1 or 8 pound kegs in stock.

[sawdustdad]

Nick_C_S and I have followed similar paths--as we've noted before--shooting and reloading a lot back in the 80s, then had life's other adventures take a front seat for 25 years or so.

I got back into shooting and reloading in late 2013--really at the height of the shortages. I had no clue. I called my older brother (much more experienced and knowledgeable than I) and asked him "what's up with no powder on the shelves at Greentop? (large LGS). I think I was actually looking for .22LR ammo and that was nowhere to be found. He schooled me on the situation.

I bought a lot of different powders over the ensuing year, scouring Gunbot for opportunities, and buying anything that would work for my needs. Some were bad decisions. 800x, for example. Some were great discoveries, 700x is one. I bought a LOT of powder(s).

But Nick_C_S and I are in different places now. While simplification is a good idea, I like variety. I'm a tinkerer. I like having 20 different powders on hand to play with. I feel like a kid in a candy shop. I get an idea, do some research, and then go to the powder locker and rummage around for that unopened bottle of HS6, or AA7, or whatever.

Every day I'm tempted to buy another powder, just to play with. I can't imagine just having a just a few powders on the shelf.

[Nick_C_S]

While simplification is a good idea, I like variety. I'm a tinkerer.

Me too; I like to tinker. I currently like having all the different powders I have right now. Keep in mind that most of these powders I plan on discontinuing, I have a several year supply. Things change, right? Paring down my powder selection is the current plan. No telling where I'll be in three or four years.

I'm out of W296 and Bullseye. HS-6 and TiteGroup aren't far behind (I'm intentionally using them up). Other than that, the others (Nitro 100; AA#2; AA#5; AA#7; & Unique) are years down the road before they're exhausted.

Every day I'm tempted to buy another powder

Yeah me too. It's proving to be a tough habit to break .

[FM12]

Trying to simplify my handguns by using Promo (Red dot) and for 12 gage too.
Still have a gracious plenty of Bullseye and some Unique. Love Unique so much I use it on my food like pepper!!

[Nick_C_S]

Love Unique so much I use it on my food like pepper!!

I have two #'s of it that I wouldn't hesitate to sell in a face-to-face transaction - my cost; or even a little less. (No, I'm not trying to sell my powder on line - just demonstrating how I feel about Unique.)

My only load recipe with Unique that pleases me is for 357 Magnum with 125 JHP's. Good round. Runs about 1300 f/s though a 3" bbl (1370 f/s 4"). And I suppose I could find other good uses for it, if I ever chose to put those irons in the fire. Maybe some day.

But all-in-all, I could give or take Unique.

[sawdustdad]

FM12: Love Unique so much I use it on my food like pepper!!

Nick_C_S: I could give or take Unique

I'm with FM12. I have nearly 20 lbs of unique on hand. 2 8lb jugs and a couple 1 lb bottles.

It's my go-to powder for 9mm. I figure, at ~6g/round, I'm good for a long time.

And it's my backup plan for nearly every pistol cartridge should I run out of the more job-specific powders.

If I ever got to Nick's place, looking to simplify to a few powders, I think I'd settle on three: 700x, Unique and W296. That would handle pretty much everything I would want to do, from CAS to plinking to full power magnums.

I could substitute Red Dot or Clays for 700x, probably, and 2400 for W296, but Unique would still be there in the middle.

[Nick_C_S]

Unique would still be there in the middle.

My intermediate choice to keep is Power Pistol.

Definitely meters better than Unique (not that Unique's metering bothers me much). And makes bullets go faster than Unique. It also "turns down" better than Unique and runs cleaner in that condition. Not that I use it that way much. I generally run Power Pistol charged ammo fairly strong.

Energetic stuff - makes bullets go fast