Layaway Legalities

sigcurious · July 4, 2011, 03:26 PM

I am currently waiting for my local permit(Chicago CFP), and found a pistol that I am interested in at a great price from a place that offers layaway. I understand that if for some reason my permit does not arrive before the layaway period is over, I would lose my deposit and not be able to complete the transaction. But is there anything else I should be aware of that would legally prevent me from engaging in a layaway transaction?

Ideal situation: I put the pistol on layaway for a good price, my permit arrives, complete transaction. I do the happy new pistol dance

**Aguila Blanca** · July 4, 2011, 06:04 PM

I don't think any state or federal gun laws address layaways. They are contractual deals between buyer and seller. The seller agrees to remove the item from the market and to allow the buyer to make incremental payments until the full purchase price has been paid, at which time the actual change of ownership is completed.

While I understand that a gun seller would be unhappy to keep a gun off the market and then have a layaway deal fail to go forward because the buyer couldn't obtain some permission slip from the government, I also think asking the prospective buyer to forfeit the full amount he has paid is rather extreme. After all, the seller still has the gun, and can (and will) sell it to someone else. I have never bought a firearm on layaway, but I would expect there to be a percentage retained by the seller if the deal falls through, and the balance should be returned to the (non) buyer. IMHO the seller is offering you a horrible deal.

But ... to answer your question, I can't think of any legal issues other than those you already seem to know about.

Sefner · July 4, 2011, 06:26 PM

I bought my first pistol this way, except that I had a CPL when I started it. My dealer is totally chill though and if I would have wanted a different pistol then they would have put the deposit and any money paid towards that one, no big deal. There also was no layaway fee (only if I ended up not buying the gun would I pay any extra money, and only then it would have been only 10 or 15 dollars, not my entire deposit). It was more of a "OK, I'm definitely buying a gun" for me, not really a traditional "I don't have enough money for a layaway".

There are no legal consequences at the Federal level, since the background check is completed at purchase. Any legal issues would be at the State level.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 4, 2011, 08:33 PM

Question: Are you talking about a "layaway" deal here, or just putting down a deposit to hold the gun until your paperwork clears? There IS a difference.

A deposit is a one-time amount that you put down to hold the gun until you're ready to close the deal. It's not uncommon to forfeit a deposit if you can't finish the deal.

Layaway, though, is like Christmas Club at the bank. It's not a one-time payment. With layaway, you make regular payments of an agreed-upon amount, at agreed-upon intervals (say $50 per week) until you have paid the full price, at which time the deal closes. If you're buying a $1,000 gun and you've paid $900 into the layaway when you learn that your paperwork isn't going to be approved -- I certainly hope your dealer isn't going to keep the whole $900.

Perhaps you're not using the correct terminology?

sigcurious · July 4, 2011, 10:15 PM

Not sure, it says 60 day Layaway. The terms on the website only state a $250 non-refundable deposit. So I was assuming all that would be lost would be the $250. But Im not sure what the dealers take is. Sounds like he would be willing to take deposit only or deposit and payments.

I'm not sure if I would go through with the deal, but having seen the pistol at such a great price it got me thinking about if I did want to get the good price but wasn't sure if the sale or whatever would last until then, or in the future if I see a good deal right after registering a handgun, being able to take advantage of it while its on sale.

Thanks for the info, either way I hope to post my first range report in a month or so

**Aguila Blanca** · July 5, 2011, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Not sure, it says 60 day Layaway. The terms on the website only state a $250 non-refundable deposit. So I was assuming all that would be lost would be the $250. But Im not sure what the dealers take is. Sounds like he would be willing to take deposit only or deposit and payments.

Regardless of what the dealer calls it, that sounds to me like a $250 non-refundable deposit, NOT a layaway. You haven't mentioned the gun or the full selling price, so I don't know if $250 is a big percentage or a small percentage. To me, $250 is a lot of money to put at risk if there's any question that your permission slip might not be forthcoming.

Double Naught Spy · July 5, 2011, 06:36 AM

Layaway or deposit - doesn't matter, there are no legal issues given that you have not taken possesion of the firearm. In short, it isn't yours and so no legal obligations.

sigcurious · July 5, 2011, 02:45 PM

The amount of the sale price is 800, so it's a decent chunk. If I were to engage in the transaction, I would do so knowing that I might lose the deposit, or hope that the vendor would still hold it after the 60 days if I paid in full.

I will probably reserve this kind of idea for purchasing it if it is still on sale after my permit comes it. That way I can get something then, and reserve the pistol in question for 30 days later when I can register a second handgun

Thanks again guys!

winkytink · July 5, 2011, 06:05 PM

Put that $250 in your cookie jar (so to speak) and shop around. Make regular payments to said cookie jar while waiting for your handgun permit, and shop around. Unless the gun you're considering is a one-off or limited edition collectors item, chances are you can find it elsewhere and maybe even get a better price, even if you have to drive an hour or so to get to the shop.

Find a shop where you feel comfortable that has decent prices. Even if they don't have exactly the model you're looking for, odds are they can order it.

sigcurious · July 6, 2011, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Put that $250 in your cookie jar (so to speak) and shop around. Make regular payments to said cookie jar while waiting for your handgun permit, and shop around. Unless the gun you're considering is a one-off or limited edition collectors item, chances are you can find it elsewhere and maybe even get a better price, even if you have to drive an hour or so to get to the shop.

Find a shop where you feel comfortable that has decent prices. Even if they don't have exactly the model you're looking for, odds are they can order it.

It's not about trying to pay off a gun while I wait for the permit, rather reserve it at the sale for when my permit comes. The process for a new resident where I live is lengthy, hehe I actually saved way more than I intended for my purchase already

Sadly the local shops around here aren't particularly good on prices from what I've seen so far, for the pistols I'm considering, even factoring in shipping and transfer fees, internet dealers offer significant savings. Which is too bad, I'd like to support a LGS, but not at a difference of $200 or more.

SteveRabago · July 6, 2011, 03:05 PM

Most retailers can use a service at www.zimplemoney.com to offer their customers layaway or extended payment plans. If they do not offer either programs, suggest they contact zimplemoney.

July 4, 2011, 03:26 PM	#1
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	Layaway Legalities I am currently waiting for my local permit(Chicago CFP), and found a pistol that I am interested in at a great price from a place that offers layaway. I understand that if for some reason my permit does not arrive before the layaway period is over, I would lose my deposit and not be able to complete the transaction. But is there anything else I should be aware of that would legally prevent me from engaging in a layaway transaction? Ideal situation: I put the pistol on layaway for a good price, my permit arrives, complete transaction. I do the happy new pistol dance

July 4, 2011, 06:26 PM	#3
Sefner Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 769	I bought my first pistol this way, except that I had a CPL when I started it. My dealer is totally chill though and if I would have wanted a different pistol then they would have put the deposit and any money paid towards that one, no big deal. There also was no layaway fee (only if I ended up not buying the gun would I pay any extra money, and only then it would have been only 10 or 15 dollars, not my entire deposit). It was more of a "OK, I'm definitely buying a gun" for me, not really a traditional "I don't have enough money for a layaway". There are no legal consequences at the Federal level, since the background check is completed at purchase. Any legal issues would be at the State level. __________________ gtalk:renfes steamID: Sefner

July 5, 2011, 06:36 AM	#7
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,716	Layaway or deposit - doesn't matter, there are no legal issues given that you have not taken possesion of the firearm. In short, it isn't yours and so no legal obligations. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

July 6, 2011, 03:05 PM	#11
SteveRabago Junior Member Join Date: July 6, 2011 Posts: 1	Layaway option Most retailers can use a service at www.zimplemoney.com to offer their customers layaway or extended payment plans. If they do not offer either programs, suggest they contact zimplemoney.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

July 4, 2011, 06:04 PM	#2
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,457	I don't think any state or federal gun laws address layaways. They are contractual deals between buyer and seller. The seller agrees to remove the item from the market and to allow the buyer to make incremental payments until the full purchase price has been paid, at which time the actual change of ownership is completed. While I understand that a gun seller would be unhappy to keep a gun off the market and then have a layaway deal fail to go forward because the buyer couldn't obtain some permission slip from the government, I also think asking the prospective buyer to forfeit the full amount he has paid is rather extreme. After all, the seller still has the gun, and can (and will) sell it to someone else. I have never bought a firearm on layaway, but I would expect there to be a percentage retained by the seller if the deal falls through, and the balance should be returned to the (non) buyer. IMHO the seller is offering you a horrible deal. But ... to answer your question, I can't think of any legal issues other than those you already seem to know about.

July 4, 2011, 08:33 PM	#4
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,457	Question: Are you talking about a "layaway" deal here, or just putting down a deposit to hold the gun until your paperwork clears? There IS a difference. A deposit is a one-time amount that you put down to hold the gun until you're ready to close the deal. It's not uncommon to forfeit a deposit if you can't finish the deal. Layaway, though, is like Christmas Club at the bank. It's not a one-time payment. With layaway, you make regular payments of an agreed-upon amount, at agreed-upon intervals (say $50 per week) until you have paid the full price, at which time the deal closes. If you're buying a $1,000 gun and you've paid $900 into the layaway when you learn that your paperwork isn't going to be approved -- I certainly hope your dealer isn't going to keep the whole $900. Perhaps you're not using the correct terminology?

July 4, 2011, 10:15 PM	#5
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	Not sure, it says 60 day Layaway. The terms on the website only state a $250 non-refundable deposit. So I was assuming all that would be lost would be the $250. But Im not sure what the dealers take is. Sounds like he would be willing to take deposit only or deposit and payments. I'm not sure if I would go through with the deal, but having seen the pistol at such a great price it got me thinking about if I did want to get the good price but wasn't sure if the sale or whatever would last until then, or in the future if I see a good deal right after registering a handgun, being able to take advantage of it while its on sale. Thanks for the info, either way I hope to post my first range report in a month or so

July 5, 2011, 02:45 PM	#8
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	The amount of the sale price is 800, so it's a decent chunk. If I were to engage in the transaction, I would do so knowing that I might lose the deposit, or hope that the vendor would still hold it after the 60 days if I paid in full. I will probably reserve this kind of idea for purchasing it if it is still on sale after my permit comes it. That way I can get something then, and reserve the pistol in question for 30 days later when I can register a second handgun Thanks again guys!

July 5, 2011, 06:05 PM	#9
winkytink Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2010 Posts: 104	Put that $250 in your cookie jar (so to speak) and shop around. Make regular payments to said cookie jar while waiting for your handgun permit, and shop around. Unless the gun you're considering is a one-off or limited edition collectors item, chances are you can find it elsewhere and maybe even get a better price, even if you have to drive an hour or so to get to the shop. Find a shop where you feel comfortable that has decent prices. Even if they don't have exactly the model you're looking for, odds are they can order it.