"Target" rifle?

[FairWarning]

Savage if value/$ has meaning to you. Savage rifles punch WAY above their weight. Model 10 FCP-Ks or similar compete with rifles costing 2X as much or more.

And I wouldn't get some exotic/magnum caliber, get .308, because you'll shoot it a LOT and .308 is more than capable.

I really like the Weatherby TRRs and CZ-750s, but not enough to dish out 2X-3X what it costs to get an FCP-K.

[DAVID NANCARROW]

A second vote for a 308 caliber target rifle. Seems like almost everyone makes one, and available in basic to pretty exotic platforms, so there has to be something to suit you. A plus is that since you already have a hunting rifle in the same caliber and don't reload, your ammo will work in either one. Finally, there are a lot of great factory 308 match loads out there available, and likely cheaper than some of the other calibers.

[4runnerman]

snyper- While most rifles off the shelf hunting or bench are accurate,they are not as accurate as a Savage. That is a fact that is just that. As for rifles shooting more than one load accurate- Many will do that. I have many loads for my 308 that will shoot sub MOA. As I have said before- If your rifle will not shoot MOA or sub MOA-get rid of it. I have 3 that are not bull barrels. 223 and a 243 and 22-250. After working a new load last 2 weeks,all 3 are sub MOA with ease.
Now granted your deer rifles do not need to be sub MOA,but it don't hurt if they are. Savage are not MOA rifles,They are sub MOA rifles. Savage also ( off the shelf target rifles) win more comp shoot outs every year than any other rifle,this includes custom made rifles as well. That is a fact.

[Bart B.]

Do Savage guns shoot more accurate than Tubb or Elesio tube guns?

I do think Savage makes the most accurate commercial rifle.

[4runnerman]

Bart can't answer that. I can repeat what I have said-Savage wins more comp shoots every year than any other rifle and that includes custom built rifles. Now are these world renowned shooters?. Don't know,but for the other 99% of us that just shoot matches- Savage is by far the king of the ring. My matches I shoot in are a 6 state wide area, MN,ND MT,SD Wis, and Canada.
You have to interpet it how ever you will. Is it the most accurate rifle built-I doubt it. Is it on par with them-Yes I think so.

[Snyper]

snyper- While most rifles off the shelf hunting or bench are accurate,they are not as accurate as a Savage.

That wasn't my observation when I was working

I can repeat what I have said-Savage wins more comp shoots every year than any other rifle and that includes custom built rifles

That keeps getting tossed out when the reality is those rifles were purposely built for competition and are not typical "off the shelf hunting rifles"

I have 3 that are not bull barrels. 223 and a 243 and 22-250. After working a new load last 2 weeks,all 3 are sub MOA with ease.

I have lots of off the shelf rifles that will do sub-MOA and they aren't Savages

That's a fact too

It's only been in the last 5 years or so that Savage started winning matches, and that's because they designed the guns for that alone

I get that you like them , and won't buy other brands, but that's not proof of anything

Don't know,but for the other 99% of us that just shoot matches- Savage is by far the king of the ring.

Show me your data

[FiveInADime]

Originally Posted by 4runnerman

Bart can't answer that. I can repeat what I have said-Savage wins more comp shoots every year than any other rifle and that includes custom built rifles. Now are these world renowned shooters?. Don't know,but for the other 99% of us that just shoot matches- Savage is by far the king of the ring. My matches I shoot in are a 6 state wide area, MN,ND MT,SD Wis, and Canada.
You have to interpet it how ever you will. Is it the most accurate rifle built-I doubt it. Is it on par with them-Yes I think so.

What kind of competitions are the Savage rifles winning? I'm just asking, I know they have a reputation for a reason.

I don't think open benchrest, Palma, high-power, smallbore, etc. are dominated by Savage rifles or actions.

I'm not being argumentative, I just truly don't know what type of competition they're winning in other than F-Class. I heard the Savage F-Class Team guys had 4-groove, cut-rifled barrels on their guns (although I don't know what's true) so if that's the case they're just as custom as a 700 action with a non-factory match barrel.

[Bart B.]

Savage rifles have a good track record shooting F-class matches. They have button rifled barrels according to the Savage web site. For all I know, the Savage F-Class Team's rifles may well have had their barrels air gauged and those with smaller and very uniform groove diameters may have been used. That's what I would do.

I don't know if there's a source listing rifle action/barrel makes used in all sorts of rifle competition. Benchrest matches often list everything used by all competitors, but rarely does any other discipline. One has to shoot in it and talk with those producing the best results to learn what's used so they're "in the know." People not in that group often have a hard time believing what those "in the know" pass on.

[rwilson452]

Shooting 22RF you will find your 22 will shoot one brand/type of ammo better than another. Not necessarily a high end target load. You just need to try a lot of different ones to find the sweet one. as to center fire you need to learn reloading to get the best result. By reloading I could get my synthetic stocked 30-06 model 70 to sub MOA.

[Bart B.]

I think most (smallest fraction or more over half of them) commercial bolt action centerfire rifles with internal box magazines will shoot sub MOA at 100 yards for 3 to 5 shots with Federal, Hornady or Black Hills match ammo starting with a fouled bore. Some makes and types of hunting ammo will also do that well. How much their inheirant accuracy is degraded by marksmanship counterinfluences not considered.

The vast majority of them will start walking shots away from the point of aim after 4 to 5 shots as their barrels heat up then bends from uneven pressure against the receiver.

[Snyper]

Savage rifles have a good track record shooting F-class matches. They have button rifled barrels according to the Savage web site. For all I know, the Savage F-Class Team's rifles may well have had their barrels air gauged and those with smaller and very uniform groove diameters may have been used. That's what I would do.

That's because the purposely built that rifle for that class simply so they could claim their "factory rifle" could do it.

It's not a "hunting rifle", and didn't even exist prior to 2005

[rwilson452]

The vast majority of them will start walking shots away from the point of aim after 4 to 5 shots as their barrels heat up then bends from uneven pressure against the receiver.

I have seen the same effect going from a clean to a dirty barrel.

[4runnerman]

snyper--
That keeps getting tossed out when the reality is those rifles were purposely built for competition and are not typical "off the shelf hunting rifles"

Wrong snyper- Those are off the shelf out of the box rifles you buy. They are not custom rifles.

5inadime- All you have to do is google it and you will find it.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...s-on-a-budget/


www.savagearms.com/news/article/?id=1DoKxAoZh


www.savagearms.com/news/article/?id=1DoKxAoZh
http://www.fishingbuddy.com/team_sav...eaks_1_000_yar

snyper- These are stock savage rifles you buy in the store. Now I will give you they are F Class rifles, But they are also competing against $10,000 to $15,000 class rifles, and still beat them. And all for $1200..00.

[rwilson452]

That's because the purposely built that rifle for that class simply so they could claim their "factory rifle" could do it.

It's not a "hunting rifle", and didn't even exist prior to 2005

Is this sour grapes? it sure sounds like it.

[precision_shooter]

Snyper...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the title of this thread is "Target" rifle. You keep bringing up that Savage "target" rifles are not hunting rifles. Hunting rifles have no relevance for the given subject...

[Snyper]

Is this sour grapes? it sure sounds like it.

It's simply the truth

Savage built those rifles strictly as target guns, which is why they win sometimes

This thread started out asking about a "target and hunting" rifle, and has (as threads do) drifted somewhat due to other comments

http://www.gunblast.com/Savage-12F.htm

Now, Savage has taken all the features of the high-dollar F-Open-Class custom rifles, and built them into a production gun that can compete in the class that allows any production rifle.

In the production, or mass-produced category, the rifles must be pretty much out-of-the-box guns with very few modifications, and be chambered for a factory cartridge.

What Savage has essentially done is to mass-produce an open class rifle, having all the features of the expensive custom guns, at an affordable price

[Snyper]

Snyper...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the title of this thread is "Target" rifle. You keep bringing up that Savage "target" rifles are not hunting rifles. Hunting rifles have no relevance for the given subject...

From the OP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by erted45
I'm looking for a rifle with a heavy(er) barrel, that I could use for target shooting up to 300 yards and for hunting up to a maximum of 500 yards.

From Post #31:

Snyper, all of Savages rifles are accurate for several reasons, whether they be hunting rifles or B.R. rifles.

I wasn't the first to bring up hunting rifles.

I'm just pointing out Savage won some matches because they built a special purpose rifle, and not because they are really more accurate than any other brand

[4runnerman]

[B]I'm just pointing out Savage won some matches because they built a special purpose rifle, and not because they are really more accurate than any other brand

snyper- Again- Savage has won more matches than any other rifle( Not some matches).
Savage rifles are more Accurate than most if not all brands.

I have a 6MMBR-F Class Rifle. I use it for Yote Hunting every year. Weight is not a issue as I use a special swivel rest.

All we are stating is- If OP wants a heavy barrel long range Hunting/ Target rifle, Then Savage would be a very very smart purchase. When OP mentions Heavy Barrel, then weight is a null thing as any heavy barrel rifle you get is going to be on the heavy side as compared to a hunting rifle.

[Snyper]

snyper- Again- Savage has won more matches than any other rifle( Not some matches).
Savage rifles are more Accurate than most if not all brands.

Once again it's repeated. but nothing has been shown to verify the claim

snyper- These are stock savage rifles you buy in the store.

Now I will give you they are F Class rifles,

But they are also competing against $10,000 to $15,000 class rifles, and still beat them. And all for $1200..00.

Correct, they are F Class target rifles, and I suspect the match guns are hand picked

[Bart B.]

I think one can get a rifle with sights made for less than $2.5K that'll shoot as accurate as the current record holders in any long range discipline. Those records are the best they've done; most of the other 98% of their performance ain't nearly as good.

[FiveInADime]

Originally Posted by 4runnerman

5inadime- All you have to do is google it and you will find it.

I did search and all I could find was about the F-T/R team wins. One of your links shows they did well at an international fullbore match in Canada.

I wonder if a Savage has ever won an F-Open major event?

I read a thread a while ago about short range bench guns built from Savage target actions and most of the respondents said that the Savage action was plenty capable of the accuracy required but wasn't slick enough to run a group as fast as competitors like. Pretty much everyone agreed that their factory barrels weren't consistent enough to compete in SR Benchrest. They mentioned a guy that tried and went through 12 savage barrels to find a "hummer" but he decided later it just want worth the effort.

Almost everyone agreed that the Savage rifles should/would be much more competitive in LR Benchrest where it's not as much of an arms race.

I would totally buy a Savage F-Class if I wanted to try my hand at F-T/R. It's really the only way I could afford it.

[Bart B.]

What's a "hummer" barrel?

I read a benchrest record holder's comment that a hummer was a barrel that shot bullets that wouldn't drift sideways in a crosswind. But he couldn't explain the physics that made that happen. He got real angry about being told that was physically impossible.

[old roper]

Savage may win F-Class but BR matches are by weight of rifle including scope and that includes BR 1000yds.

Bart you want to know what hummer barrel is go to BR match with your 308 and find out.

[FiveInADime]

Originally Posted by Bart B.

What's a "hummer" barrel?

I read a benchrest record holder's comment that a hummer was a barrel that shot bullets that wouldn't drift sideways in a crosswind. But he couldn't explain the physics that made that happen. He got real angry about being told that was physically impossible.

Bart B,

I just heard the term thrown about and assumed it meant a barrel of exceptional accuracy. I think I've also read someone day it was a barrel that shot bullets at higher velocities than a typical match barrel at a given length.

I don't think it's much of a technical term with a defined meaning.

[precision_shooter]

I wonder if a Savage has ever won an F-Open major event?

National Title, while breaking 1000yd record
http://www.savagearms.com/news/article/?id=2K5nTzegQ

World Championship - Winners
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...s-on-a-budget/

Fullbore - all 7 gold medals and 6 silvers
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...lbore-matches/