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February 28, 2011, 12:41 PM | #1 |
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What are the laws on protecting your car from a burglar
I live in tx in a apartment complex... What if I see someone breaking in my car trying to steal it... Can I shoot him from my apartment window or would that get me in trouble... Does anyone have the legal answer ... has anyone been thru this kind of senario or know of someone
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my fear was thrown along with my last diaper.. Last edited by EddieDaGreat; February 28, 2011 at 02:34 PM. |
February 28, 2011, 12:47 PM | #2 |
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Are you joking?,,,
I don't believe there is a state in the union where you can just shoot someone without first having a fear for your personal safety.
Go down and confront him with a gun,,, He turns to advance on you,,, Then you shoot him,,, That might fly. But you can't just shoot someone,,, For messing with your car or trying to steal it. Aarond
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February 28, 2011, 12:49 PM | #3 | |
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Here's the TX penal code for the use of deadly force to protect property:
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February 28, 2011, 12:53 PM | #4 |
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Sounds reasonable... The reason I ask is because there have been lots of cases were burglars get shot inside vehicles and the owners walk free from charges... I didn't know if the laws were slightly different from houses and apartment complex parking lots..
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February 28, 2011, 01:34 PM | #5 |
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The highlighted portion of the law is an important point to keep in mind. Even if the use of deadly force was justified, as soon as the burglar drops the property, there is no more justification for the use of force to protect property.
If the forensice evidence shows that the burglar dropped your car stereo 2' away from the car; but you continued shooting at 3', 4' etc., you may have a much bigger problem than losing a car stereo. When you start thinking about how fast these situations can play out and how easily you can miss a small detail like that (especially in low light), you start appreciating how easily you can end up in front of a jury yourself when you use deadly force to protect property. |
February 28, 2011, 02:09 PM | #6 | |
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February 28, 2011, 02:29 PM | #7 |
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In a strictly objective look, the legal fees I incur by shooting someone (I'm not making a statement to the police without my attorney present) will undoubtedly far exceed the difference between my insurance reimbursement and the price of another car, especially if it goes to trial.
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February 28, 2011, 02:32 PM | #8 |
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That is so true.. That is a good point lots of people have failed to see...
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February 28, 2011, 02:39 PM | #9 |
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The two overiding considerations that are common to most states are your belief in eminate danger to your person and inability to flee. Most folks do not seem to understand that today if it's believed you have a way out and do not take it.....you're toast.
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February 28, 2011, 03:00 PM | #10 |
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Posts # 5 and 7 are on point.
If I thought that I had a 98% chance of convincing enough people that a reasonable person would have believed that the property could not have been be protected or recovered by any other means,.... ..that would mean that I thought I had a 2% chance of losing everything--fortune, record, personal freedom. Not a good risk. That does not take into account the costs, possibly astronomical, of prevailing during the investigatory and if necessary, trial stages. Not a good strategy. |
February 28, 2011, 03:11 PM | #11 | |||
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Quote:
That said... Quote:
I have a vague recollection that there was a gentleman several years ago in the Ft Worth area who shot someone in an attempt to stop a nighttime vehicle burglary in his driveway; IIRC he was eventually acquitted, but only after being charged with manslaughter and going through a lengthy court battle. If my memory serves, the miscreant had not succeeded in actually removing anything from the vehicle, and there was some contention that he was trying to flee or surrender when he was shot (see Bartholomew Roberts' post above). Quote:
Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. This is not official legal advice. Caveat emptor.
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February 28, 2011, 03:21 PM | #12 | |
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If you can see the guy breaking into your car from your window, have a good digital camera with a good zoom lens, take some pictures and give copies to your insurance company and the police. That'll help you settle the insurance claim quickly, and may help the cops catch the guy. It might mean that the defense attorney you'd turn to if you used your gun will have to dip into his saving for his next meal, but that should be okay with you; and maybe he can pick up a fee representing the guy the cops caught because you got his photo. |
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February 28, 2011, 03:32 PM | #13 |
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Well can you at least hold him at gun point till the cops show up..
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February 28, 2011, 03:37 PM | #14 |
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In WV(ive heard not proved) that you have to be feared for your life before use of a deadly weapon is advised.
I wouldnt pull a gun on someone here unless they had pulled one first. I wouldnt trust putting my fate in some judge/jury hands for pulling a gun on someone breaking into my car.
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February 28, 2011, 04:11 PM | #15 |
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You really need to find the lawyer who you'd hire to defend you in court and speak to him/her about it. In advance. Before you open the window.
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February 28, 2011, 04:29 PM | #16 | |
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The first step to obeying the law is understanding the law. It should be (but apparently isn't) obvious that the laws of other states such as West Virginia do not apply in Texas, any more than Texas law applies in West Virginia. The OP asked for help understanding what the law requires/allows. How to proceed in any particular situation once the law is understood is HIS personal decision. Citing vague references to what we think the law is in other states is really not helpful when someone is asking for specific information. Last edited by Aguila Blanca; February 28, 2011 at 11:11 PM. Reason: typo |
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February 28, 2011, 04:50 PM | #17 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
First, threatening to use deadly force generally requires the same justifications as the actual use of deadly force. The penalties for improper threats of deadly force are likewise very similar. We are talking about serious jail time. It is legal in TX for someone to use deadly force (or threaten to use it- see above paragraph) to detain a criminal who is in the process of committing certain serious crimes. That said, improper use of deadly force to detain someone against his or her will is a crime in and of itself- it's called kidnapping. Before attempting to detain a suspect, you need to be sure that it is absolutely obvious to any reasonable observer that there is a serious crime in progress. The underlined phrase is crucial; the crime must not only be obvious to you- it must be obvious to any reasonable person observing the situation. The crucial problem is that most burglaries, vehicle or otherwise, are generally less obvious and clear-cut than other crimes such as robbery, murder, or rape. Only a few seconds of astute observation may separate the innocent from the guilty. Can you be certain that the man standing next to your car with the alarm going off was actually trying to steal the stereo seconds earlier? Would an impartial observer be likely to agree? Could the man have bumped the car by accident? Could he have tried the door handle thinking the car was his sister's, a similar dark-colored 4-door sedan parked a few spaces over? Will he forgive you for screaming obscenities at him and making him lie on the ground at gunpoint until the cops arrive, when all he was trying to do was bring in some groceries? My opinion? Regardless of what Penal Code 9.42(3)(A) says, I will let the cops handle it.
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February 28, 2011, 05:16 PM | #18 | |
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There's more bad choices to be made going one-on-one with a criminal than there are good choices, when the possible consequences are considered. An auto burglary may likely only be a misdemeanor but a lot of the choices you're making can easily lead to a felony charge against you. Sometimes being a darned good witness beats being a 'hero' all to heck! |
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February 28, 2011, 08:04 PM | #19 |
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Whether or not you get away with shooting a car burgler in Texas will depend a lot on which county you are in when it happens. In some counties, the case may be referred to the Grand Jury without charges. By the way, a trip to the Grand Jury is guaranteed, since Texas law requires that all homicides, including police shootings, go to that entity. In Travis County, the DA's office will almost certainly try to find something to charge you with. It is guaranteed by the leftist orientation of that official. In fact, even a self-defense that would be a justifiable shoot in almost anywhere in Texas may well result in charges here. Dallas County is another place where they will try to find something to bring charges over a shoot. Much of the rest of Texas may take the attitude that the burgler brought it on himself.
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February 28, 2011, 08:25 PM | #20 | |
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February 28, 2011, 09:31 PM | #21 |
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I mean its pretty tough to watch someone walk away with your hard earned things... I really dont make much and its kinda hard to be able to replace stolen items... It takes me five months to save up enough to buy something nice and someone just takes it in two min... some people say its easier to pay the deductible. But what if I dont have full coverage... Plus its harder to pay five hundred dollars in deductible fees when you got three hundred of loss and damages.. Plus 98% of the time the cops won't show up on time to catch the bad guy.. in some posts it seems like all you can do is just sit there and wait and hope for the cops to show up in time to catch the bad guy, cus if they dont you just got stuck with a broken window to replace and all the stolen items.. Oh and lets hope they didn't break anything else inside your vehicle.. some one mentioned to take either video or picture to show the cops and insurance.. Come on bro its night time how clear can the picture really be.. Unless you walk up to the guy.. Plus if they see the flash they gonna run and leave ... And all you end up with Is a blurry pic and damages to fix... it takes a thief less than a min to take your things do you really feel like you got time to hear the alarm go off or the window, call the cops, get your camera from were ever you got it at get it ready and take a good pic in time.. I think one min is enough time to grab the glock and handle business then call the cops... And by the way guys this is texas, we dont play that b.s over here.. I rather pay lawyer fees and know that justice was served.. Than to pay damages and know that the bad guy is smoking it up with his friends talking about how someone just got jacked.. I guess its also a pride thing,i am willing to go thru the consiquences than to just sit there and take it..
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February 28, 2011, 10:12 PM | #22 |
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EddieDaGreat,
I've almost been in the situation you requested feedback on, and the statutes / legal advice that's been proffered in this thread seems to be clear. I stopped a burglar in Texas a few years back who was breaking into a house, not a car. I was armed and about 10 feet away when I startled him and announced myself. He ultimately complied and got on the ground, but not until "racking the gun in his face" seemed to convince him of the seriousness of the issue and his ultimate compliance. I could see having pulled the trigger if he advanced or did something stupid, which he luckily did not. I've been on a jury in Texas, and would have a difficult time finding someone justified in shooting as you described in your scenario, from an apartment window. Good luck.
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February 28, 2011, 10:35 PM | #23 | |
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All the legal stuff will probably cause you to lose some time from work. Your family, friends, neighbors and co-workers may or may not understand. They may treat you differently -- may be good or not. If you did shoot the thief, you are now the person in your circle who has committed an act of extreme violence on another person. That sort of thing usually affects relationships. It may be one thing to put yourself and your family through all that when your life or one of their lives was on the line. It may be another thing to put yourself and your family through all of that over possessions. No one likes getting robbed. It's an insult and an awful violation of your sense of personal security. And we've all worked hard for what we have. And you're lucky to live in Texas where you can even contemplate using lethal force to stop a theft (as long as it's at night). In many other States, even threatening lethal force to stop someone who was merely stealing would almost certainly be a felony (and a loss of the right to possess a gun). But even in Texas, there can be a price tag for protecting your property and pride. It's up to you. You do the math. |
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February 28, 2011, 10:48 PM | #24 |
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I think if a there is a broken window there is personal stuff scattered all inside your vehicle the door is open and there someone there with a screw driver in his hand isn't that enough justification to shoot legally.??.. According to post number three right? I mean I'm just not gonna shoot someone with out being certain that he is stealing from me...
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February 28, 2011, 11:11 PM | #25 |
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I thought you just got your hands cut off for stealing. Now that sounds like justice to me.
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