.454 Casull and 45 Colt

El Chimango Pete · April 14, 1999, 11:04 AM

Through some devious trading, I've wound up with a Taurus "Raging Bull" .454 Casull. Just fine, always wanted another plinker

.

The ammo though is almost unobtainable in this country (Argentina), not even for ready money - will have to resort to some more devious trading. Meanwhile, question: How far can I go in warming up 45 L Colt? Obviously it would take hotter loads than my Ruger SA or even my (new) Winchester 84 AE - but there must be a limit on the 45 case… below 50000 psi. Also, I usually load Unique in my pistols, but perhaps I can call some changes for this gun.

BTW I plan to do some testing in powders/loads for the 20" barrel Winchester - any ideas? (Have chrono etc.)

zot · April 14, 1999, 01:16 PM

the .454s pressure is 65,000 psi, .45 colt
is MAX 14,000 psi. you'll have case head seperation, the web on .454s are real thick like a rifle cartridge,can't you order from Starline? would shell casings be stopped if
shipped to you?

El Chimango Pete · April 14, 1999, 02:42 PM

Yep, they would be stopped and an a lot of explanations would be asked for.
Yest, thats the point - would never take a LC shell all the way to anywhere near the 50 plus Kpsi... but in Rugers and Contenders quite a lot more than 14000 would pass - just how much more? I'd anticipate head separation at some point. Its a very empirical problem - wonder if anyone has any experience.
Most important: whatever the load, wouldn't make up more than enough for testing, and then fire the lot right away: Avoid at all costs blowing up a regular 45!
Could I use the same dies for .454 as my Lee carbide 45 set? (thats another separate question - for when I get the right cases)

Grayfox · April 14, 1999, 11:17 PM

Zot is right about .454 brass being thicker and stronger. Stick to loading manual recommendations for Ruger and Contender loads. Trying to push beyond that is just begging for trouble.

Paul B. · April 16, 1999, 11:54 PM

You can use your .45 Colt dies. I have .38 SPL., .44 SPL dies and I made a spacer to go between the lock ring on the dies, By doing this, I don't have a lot of readjusting to do when I go to .357 Mag., .357 Max. and .44 Mag. You should be able to do the same with your dies. My adapters are made of Delrin plastic and they work well. You can also use a washer of the proper thickness, if it has a 3/4 inch hole. You might have to draw file it to bring it to the proper thickness.
Hope you find this helpfull.
Paul B.

COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

Art Eatman · April 17, 1999, 10:45 AM

My Speer book lists loads of 20,000 to 25,000 psi as max for the .45 Colt brass. For a 260-gr jacketed bullet, they say 18.0 gr of 2400; 20.0 of H110; 20.5 of 296; 14.7 of HS-7; 105 of Unique, and 10.2 of 231.

My Sierra book shows 25.0 gr of 296, with a CCI 350 primer. This is shown as "Ruger and T/C Contender Pistols". I loaded 24.0 of IMR 4227 behind a 240-gr, and shot it with no troubles in a Smith Model 25. Also, I tried 22.0 of 4227 behind a 300-gr jacketed bullet; again, no trouble. However, the 300-gr bullet gives a noticeable thump at both ends.

I haven't worked up the ambition, yet, to find out if there is any rimmed rifle case which could be reworked so as to be usable. A rifle case would give the support at the case-head and allow Casull pressures--I think.

or

, I don't know...

Later, Art

El Chimango Pete · April 19, 1999, 05:57 PM

Many thanks for the replies - the subject has become 'academic' as some (expletive deleted) demonstrated the "devastating power of this terrifying weapon etc. etc." on Buenos Aires TV... a bunch of (expletive deleted)'s in their own right - and our gov'mint (expletive deleted) gnashed its teeth and tore its garments and resolved to class the .454 with 'forbidden weapons' (in these parts, full auto, lupara shot-guns, etc.) - It appears that 1000 rounds of ammo will be allowed in for current owners (less than 50) and thats it.

So i've been deviously trading back and have wound up with a S&W 629 44 Mag plinker instead - ah well.

I had figured that p'rahps one could trim down a 45/70 and resize, but didn't look into it in the end.
Hasta pronto!

El Chimango Pete · April 30, 1999, 09:45 PM

Oh Wondrous and Mysterious are the Ways of the World (of 'devious gun trading anyway). Just got several pieces of news:

1) The Person unto whom I traded the 454 Raging Bull got Cold Feet and Chickened Out.

2) Our gov'mint is not slamming the door on the Casull just yet - the whole fuss was a knee jerk reaction to some (deleted) TV character blasting things on screen (unfortunately, not (deleting) other TV characters of his ilk) and showing "this horrendously powerfully deadly terrifying devastating etc....weapon from the Barbarians of the North". It appears that those guns in the country will not be banned, limited amounts of ammo will be made available...

3) I have the papers (each gun needs its individual permit in this country, as well as another permit for the owner/user) of the S&W 629 - so

Back to square one, (but with a 44 Mag thrown in) will now run some "big wheelgun" tests - as long as I can get 454 shells. At very worst - I've got a very tough 45 LC... the story will go on.

Hasta Pronto Amigos!
Peter Knight (aka El Chimango Pete)

Garrett5 · April 30, 1999, 11:08 PM

Colt loads for the Ruger and T/C(and others that qualify) should be held at 32,000cup or under. This is a 300gr bullet at 1350fps to 1400fps. My Ruger gets 1380fps mostly because of the tight cylinder gap. Check out sixgunner.com and then go to Linebaugh's site for more loads and some history on the 45 Colt.

Good luck,
Garrett

April 14, 1999, 11:04 AM	#1
El Chimango Pete Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 1999 Location: Sierras de Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 352	Through some devious trading, I've wound up with a Taurus "Raging Bull" .454 Casull. Just fine, always wanted another plinker . The ammo though is almost unobtainable in this country (Argentina), not even for ready money - will have to resort to some more devious trading. Meanwhile, question: How far can I go in warming up 45 L Colt? Obviously it would take hotter loads than my Ruger SA or even my (new) Winchester 84 AE - but there must be a limit on the 45 case… below 50000 psi. Also, I usually load Unique in my pistols, but perhaps I can call some changes for this gun. BTW I plan to do some testing in powders/loads for the 20" barrel Winchester - any ideas? (Have chrono etc.)

April 14, 1999, 01:16 PM	#2
zot Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 1999 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 566	the .454s pressure is 65,000 psi, .45 colt is MAX 14,000 psi. you'll have case head seperation, the web on .454s are real thick like a rifle cartridge,can't you order from Starline? would shell casings be stopped if shipped to you?

April 14, 1999, 02:42 PM	#3
El Chimango Pete Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 1999 Location: Sierras de Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 352	Yep, they would be stopped and an a lot of explanations would be asked for. Yest, thats the point - would never take a LC shell all the way to anywhere near the 50 plus Kpsi... but in Rugers and Contenders quite a lot more than 14000 would pass - just how much more? I'd anticipate head separation at some point. Its a very empirical problem - wonder if anyone has any experience. Most important: whatever the load, wouldn't make up more than enough for testing, and then fire the lot right away: Avoid at all costs blowing up a regular 45! Could I use the same dies for .454 as my Lee carbide 45 set? (thats another separate question - for when I get the right cases)

April 14, 1999, 11:17 PM	#4
Grayfox Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 1998 Posts: 1,885	Zot is right about .454 brass being thicker and stronger. Stick to loading manual recommendations for Ruger and Contender loads. Trying to push beyond that is just begging for trouble.

April 16, 1999, 11:54 PM	#5
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,801	You can use your .45 Colt dies. I have .38 SPL., .44 SPL dies and I made a spacer to go between the lock ring on the dies, By doing this, I don't have a lot of readjusting to do when I go to .357 Mag., .357 Max. and .44 Mag. You should be able to do the same with your dies. My adapters are made of Delrin plastic and they work well. You can also use a washer of the proper thickness, if it has a 3/4 inch hole. You might have to draw file it to bring it to the proper thickness. Hope you find this helpfull. Paul B. COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

April 17, 1999, 10:45 AM	#6
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	My Speer book lists loads of 20,000 to 25,000 psi as max for the .45 Colt brass. For a 260-gr jacketed bullet, they say 18.0 gr of 2400; 20.0 of H110; 20.5 of 296; 14.7 of HS-7; 105 of Unique, and 10.2 of 231. My Sierra book shows 25.0 gr of 296, with a CCI 350 primer. This is shown as "Ruger and T/C Contender Pistols". I loaded 24.0 of IMR 4227 behind a 240-gr, and shot it with no troubles in a Smith Model 25. Also, I tried 22.0 of 4227 behind a 300-gr jacketed bullet; again, no trouble. However, the 300-gr bullet gives a noticeable thump at both ends. I haven't worked up the ambition, yet, to find out if there is any rimmed rifle case which could be reworked so as to be usable. A rifle case would give the support at the case-head and allow Casull pressures--I think. or , I don't know... Later, Art

April 19, 1999, 05:57 PM	#7
El Chimango Pete Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 1999 Location: Sierras de Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 352	Many thanks for the replies - the subject has become 'academic' as some (expletive deleted) demonstrated the "devastating power of this terrifying weapon etc. etc." on Buenos Aires TV... a bunch of (expletive deleted)'s in their own right - and our gov'mint (expletive deleted) gnashed its teeth and tore its garments and resolved to class the .454 with 'forbidden weapons' (in these parts, full auto, lupara shot-guns, etc.) - It appears that 1000 rounds of ammo will be allowed in for current owners (less than 50) and thats it. So i've been deviously trading back and have wound up with a S&W 629 44 Mag plinker instead - ah well. I had figured that p'rahps one could trim down a 45/70 and resize, but didn't look into it in the end. Hasta pronto!

April 30, 1999, 09:45 PM	#8
El Chimango Pete Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 1999 Location: Sierras de Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 352	Oh Wondrous and Mysterious are the Ways of the World (of 'devious gun trading anyway). Just got several pieces of news: 1) The Person unto whom I traded the 454 Raging Bull got Cold Feet and Chickened Out. 2) Our gov'mint is not slamming the door on the Casull just yet - the whole fuss was a knee jerk reaction to some (deleted) TV character blasting things on screen (unfortunately, not (deleting) other TV characters of his ilk) and showing "this horrendously powerfully deadly terrifying devastating etc....weapon from the Barbarians of the North". It appears that those guns in the country will not be banned, limited amounts of ammo will be made available... 3) I have the papers (each gun needs its individual permit in this country, as well as another permit for the owner/user) of the S&W 629 - so Back to square one, (but with a 44 Mag thrown in) will now run some "big wheelgun" tests - as long as I can get 454 shells. At very worst - I've got a very tough 45 LC... the story will go on. Hasta Pronto Amigos! Peter Knight (aka El Chimango Pete)

April 30, 1999, 11:08 PM	#9
Garrett5 Member Join Date: April 21, 1999 Location: Ca Posts: 31	Colt loads for the Ruger and T/C(and others that qualify) should be held at 32,000cup or under. This is a 300gr bullet at 1350fps to 1400fps. My Ruger gets 1380fps mostly because of the tight cylinder gap. Check out sixgunner.com and then go to Linebaugh's site for more loads and some history on the 45 Colt. Good luck, Garrett