Does anyone else thrill to the Idea of owning a Colt M1903?

[CaptainO]

I have always wanted a Colt's M1903 in 7.65mm x 17 Automatic Pistol Cartridge. since Colt just manufactured a small number of these beauties (I believe they made 2500 of these, stamped "US Property").

These are made from tooling identical to what was initially used 113 years ago. the "new" versions still have the "parkerized" finish of the pistols manufactures (and issued) to high-ranking Army Officers prior to "The War To End All Wars".

I want one of these in the worst way, but can't "cough up" $1500.00 (before fees) to buy one.

Am I alone in this desire?

[ttarp]

Am I alone in this desire?

Probably not, but in a minority I'd wager. I picked mine up for a third of that price and for a 100 year old pistol its in pretty solid shape. Either way they're very nice pistols and even thought these new ones are priced for collectors, I'm still glad there's appreciation out there for them.

[Limnophile]

Yes, I'd like one, but not at that price.

The M1903 and its .380 Auto sibling, the M1908, were last shipped to the Army in 1945 and were issued to line general officers into the 1960s.

An M1903 was Patton's social gun. Behind the lines he carried it in his pants pocket; in combat he carried it inside his field jacket. Old Blood and Guts obviously didn't have today's expert knowledge on the ineffectiveness of the .32 Auto, or the danger of pocket carry.

[CaptainO]

Ol' "Blood 'n Guts" carried Remington R51 under his tunic and fired at the Nazi fighter pilots in frustration; cursing them as they strafed the American positions.

John Dillinger was shot while carrying a M1903 in his suit's jacket pocket. I have often wondered what would have happened had Dillinger been able to get off a couple of rounds at the Feds.

The Colt 1903 has a 3.75" barrel. When it comes to muzzle energy, today's Buffalo Bore ammunition places a round fired from this pistol squarely in .380 ACP "territory". The .312" 75 grain FNHCL bullet is longer than the average and increases the bullet's odd for good penetration. This places the M1903 in an entirely new "league".

It could prove handy in a "tight situation".

[Kreyzhorse]

For the money, I'd be hard pressed but I understand the desire to own one. Cool old new guns.

For half the asking price, there seem to be some nice old ones floating around on Gun Broker.

[CaptainO]

I'd like an older Model 1903, but If I could replace the barrel to ensure the accuracy, velocity, safery and life offered by modern ammunition (read Buffalo Bore). I might consider one.

[WyMark]

Not for that money.

If I happened across a P230 in .32ACP for half that I'd probably buy it, which is why I don't spend a lot of time looking. But one of these days....

[James K]

If you want a Model 1903 and it doesn't need to be USP marked, you can easily find one in good condition for a lot less than $1500.

General info. While some of those guns went to general officers and probably some to the OSS, a lot went to doctors and nurses. I knew a nurse who carried one (never used it) and a doctor who was offered one but declined. The rules at that time prohibited medical personnel from carrying "offensive" weapons, but allowed them to carry "defensive" weapons for the protection of themselves and their patients.

Jim

[CaptainO]

I saw a couple on Gunbroker. One was standing at $700, another for just under $500. I would like to buy one of these and spend about $400 "dressing it up". 'Parkerizing' the pistol and replacing the barrel and recoil spring. (I would make these replacements for the sake of both safety and reliability). These "improvements" would make the pistol a shooter for the rest of my days. Am I being overly cautious, or am I engaging in simple prudence?

[ttarp]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me most 1903's were carried a lot and fired very little with worn finishes and good internals, so I doubt a barrel replacement would be of use in most cases. New springs are never a bad idea though.

[FrankenMauser]

I would be interested under different circumstances.

As is, they are:
Too expensive.
Too rough (have you seen the fit and finish?!).
Too covered in drool from collectors.

[DPris]

I handled a blued one last week at SHOT, they're really not as bad as I keep hearing they are.
The .380 version will be coming out in about 18 months.

They are not made by Colt.
Denis

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by CaptainO

Am I alone in this desire?

Probably not, but I'm not standing next to you. They're good pistols, but to me they're ugly awkward looking.

[gyvel]

Before you take any plunge, get a good photo of an original 1903/1908 and compare it side by side to the newly manufactured item. I did and I saw lots of differences in mill cuts and frame profile. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that it almost (but not quite) looked like a Spanish Ruby type.

[David R]

I have the real thing that was my dads. I looked it up on gunbroker and its worth a few bucks. Nice to know. I do not want to keep it.

Thanks for the info.
David

[RickB]

I think the "General Officers" edition, with the bio of a specific General, etc.,(did they go through with that?) was a cool idea.
If it included the appropriate belt and holster, preferably from El Paso Saddlery, it could be a pretty attractive package.
But, when you can get an original .32, plus a matching .380, for the money?
There are supposed to be polished-blue "civilian" versions of the repro, too, but if they cost an addtional $200-$300 for the finish, is there going to be a market?

Before you take any plunge, get a good photo of an original 1903/1908 and compare it side by side to the newly manufactured item. I did and I saw lots of differences in mill cuts and frame profile. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that it almost (but not quite) looked like a Spanish Ruby type.

I'm comparing an original to a hi-res pic from SHOT. The differences that I find most noticeable are the shape of the stirrup cuts on the slide; the repro having "ball cuts" when the original has a profile more like the M1911A1 slide.
The relationship of the frame tang that encloses the hammer, and the grip safety, looks "different"; the grip safety extends further to the rear, or the frame is shorter on the repro? It makes the rear of the grip frame looker bulkier and not as slender/sleek.
The frame contours around the trigger are a little different. On the repro, it looks like the frame has an extra radius around the trigger, when the original has a straight vertical line joining a single radius that transitions into a horizontal line, without the small "steps".

[Limnophile]

O'l "Blood 'n Guts" carried a 1908 under his tunic and fired at the Nazi fighter pilots in frustration; cursing them as they strafed the American positions.

I believe Patton's Colt was an M1903 chambered in .32 Auto, his social pistol. His Remington M51 was, I believe, chambered in .380 Auto.

The Colt 1903 has a 3.75" barrel. When it comes to muzzle energy, today's Buffalo Bore ammunition places a round fired from this pistol squarely in .380 ACP "territory". The .312" 75 grain FNHCL bullet is longer than the average and increases the bullet's odd for good penetration. This places the M1903 in an entirely new "league".

I see no need to run .32 pseudo +P through any nice gun. Regular FMJ will provide adequate penetration in this caliber.

[mavracer]

I'd like an older Model 1903, but If I could replace the barrel to ensure the accuracy, velocity, safery and life offered by modern ammunition (read Buffalo Bore).

What makes you think an original in good condition wouldn't handle modern ammo.

[CaptainO]

The reason being early metallugy and lack of heat treating. I would prefer modern metals that can handle the repeated stress of modern, higher pressure ammunition. I want to practice with a minimum of a 71 grain FMJ bullet being launched at a stout 1001 fps. Then I want to "short practice" (for the familiarization and "muscle memory" purposes) with the 75 grain HCLFN Buffalo Bore personal defense ammunition.

I want the .32 to perform at it's best when "the feces impacts the air motivator".

[CaptainO]

I understand. You are right, Ol' "Blood And Guts" did use an Remington R51 when he fired on the Stukas out of anger.

Heck, my father told me about cooks throwing potatoes at the Japanese Zeros while they were boming and strafing U.S. Navy ships on the morning of December 7th, 1941! (He was there and saw it happen).

[gyvel]

I'm comparing an original to a hi-res pic from SHOT. The differences that I find most noticeable are the shape of the stirrup cuts on the slide; the repro having "ball cuts" when the original has a profile more like the M1911A1 slide.
The relationship of the frame tang that encloses the hammer, and the grip safety, looks "different"; the grip safety extends further to the rear, or the frame is shorter on the repro? It makes the rear of the grip frame looker bulkier and not as slender/sleek.
The frame contours around the trigger are a little different. On the repro, it looks like the frame has an extra radius around the trigger, when the original has a straight vertical line joining a single radius that transitions into a horizontal line, without the small "steps".

Exactly my observations, too.

Close, but no cigar.

[tallball]

I wanted one too but didn't have much money. I stalked them on Gunbroker for months. Finally I got lucky and found one no one seemed to want, probably because it was refinished and had new grips. I won it for a bid of less than $400. It's a great shooter and I like it a lot. It's my daughter's favorite 32acp. There is no need to pay $1500. You just have to be patient.

Here is what $380 plus shipping will get you, IIRC.

[CaptainO]

Would I be better off buying a Model 1908 and installing a custom made barrel chambered for .32 NAA? (This would make certain that I had sufficient power).

[James K]

If you believe that the old metallugy was bad and the guns are dangerous with slightly hotter ammo, going to a Model 1908 isn't going to change much. The higher power (or higher hype) load won't blow up the barrel; damage to the gun (if any) would more likely be to the slide and frame.

FWIW, I think the .32 NAA is a gunzine BS of the month deal, like dozens of other miracle cartridges over the years that barely lasted until the magazine went into the trash.

Jim

[Venom1956]

yeah for 1500 id much rather get a near mint old one then some lame repro