Ammo: Brass vs. Steel and Mixing

blitzer · December 7, 2015, 09:48 PM

Newbie to the forum here, fellas. Glad to be here and start contributing to the conversation.

I'm not new to firearms, but would not consider myself some sort of expert. My entire life I have only shot brass casings, and my intuition tells me mixing back and forth with steel in the same gun isn't ideal for quality care.

That said, is there any truth to my assumption? Additionally, why is it that steel gets a bad rep and is often cheaper? I imagine it may do more damage to the bore or something along those lines, but I would like to hear from the more inclined.

Thanks in advance.

Evil Monkey · December 7, 2015, 10:44 PM

There's nothing wrong with steel cased ammo. It's cheap because, well....steel is cheap material.

That's not to say it's low quality.

If you shoot steel cased ammo, be sure to clean the chamber before shooting brass again because steel cased ammo doesn't obturate as effectively as brass and therefore, will have more carbon build up on the chamber walls that can cause brass cased ammo to fail to extract afterward.

Otherwise, there is no problem unless the company of the ammunition is not doing their part in quality control.

Bob Wright · December 7, 2015, 10:52 PM

Steel cased cartridges came into use during WW II when copper was becoming scarce. This before stainless steel was developed that was suitable for cartridge cases. After the war surplus steel cased .45 ACP ammunition, and German 9mm Parabellum became available. The German ammunition was labeled "for machine pistol use only", or words to that effect.

Stories began to circulate of broken or torn out extractors in auto pistols from using steel cased ammunition. Certainly the handloader would not likely to be wanting to use steel cases in his dies. But as far as damage to the pistol, I know of no documented case where damage has occurred by using steel cased ammunition.

As to mixing, my guess would be that bullet pull would be greatly different when using mixed brass and steel cases. This would have an effect on accuracy, just as using two different brands of brass would have.

From a practical standpoint, and not needing the finest accuracy, I can't see it makes much difference.

Bob Wright

TailGator · December 8, 2015, 10:52 AM

I stick with brass for two reasons: First and foremost, I reload. Secondly, there is a little portion of my brain that wonders if steel, being a harder metal, increases the wear on my pistols just a bit over brass. As the very knowledgeable Mr. Wright points out, I don't have any hard data to confirm my worry, but I would kind of rather my pistols not become part of the data set if it develops.

Evil Monkey · December 8, 2015, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Secondly, there is a little portion of my brain that wonders if steel, being a harder metal, increases the wear on my pistols just a bit over brass.

This is the biggest load of crap I often times hear from the gun owning community.

Steel cased ammo in no way increases wear and tear on pistols and there is no proof of it either.

I mean, what part of feed, fire, extract, eject does the pistol suffer more wear from? This is absolutely silly.

g.willikers · December 8, 2015, 11:05 AM

If the steel that's used for ammunition cartridge cases is harder than the barrel chambers or extractors in a gun, then you don't want to shoot that particular gun.

Evil Monkey · December 8, 2015, 11:41 AM

Quote:

If the steel that's used for ammunition cartridge cases is harder than the barrel chambers or extractors in a gun, then you don't want to shoot that particular gun.

First, there is no such thing as a steel casing harder than the extractor or barrel. They use very soft steel for those casing because it's cheap and easier to form without cracking.

Second, the steel casings are always coated with something like, polymer, lacquer, copper, zinc, and so forth.

T. O'Heir · December 8, 2015, 02:08 PM

"...steel that's used for ammunition cartridge cases is harder than the barrel chambers or extractors..." Is not and will never be harder than any of the steel used in any firearm.
"...the steel casings are always coated..." No they aren't. Certainly not with polymers. The Russian stuff has lacquer on it though.

lamarw · December 8, 2015, 03:02 PM

I simply do not buy steel cased ammunition. There are two reasons:

1. I reload all my ammunition for all my firearms except for rim fire.

2. Because of # 1. above, I seldom buy new ammunition.

Therefore, I do not care what other than brass cased ammunition does or does not do to a firearm.

Evil Monkey · December 8, 2015, 03:04 PM

Quote:

No they aren't. Certainly not with polymers.

..................The grey casings are polymer coated.

zukiphile · December 8, 2015, 03:58 PM

Quote:

I reload all my ammunition for all my firearms except for rim fire.

Slacker.

blitzer · December 8, 2015, 04:22 PM

Thanks for all of the information, everyone. Definitely gives me something to chew on. For the time being I think I will just stick with my brass, but whatever gun I purchase next might get fed a couple hundred rounds of steel first.

KyJim · December 8, 2015, 04:39 PM

I shoot a little steel cased ammo from 9mm SW M&Ps. I avoid it in my 1911s as steel cased ammo has been known to cause issues with primer flow in some 1911s.

Hawg · December 8, 2015, 05:16 PM

I shoot some steel cased .45 ACP in my 1911 just because it's cheap and accurate and I get tired of chasing brass all the time. It feels good to fire off a few mags and not have to watch where the cases fall.

kozak6 · December 9, 2015, 12:45 AM

Steel cased ammo generally has a steel jacketed bullet as well.

It does accelerate barrel wear in rifles. At the low velocity of handgun projectiles, I would imagine it is less of an issue.

Even it ever becomes an issue, I would imagine that the cost savings from firing steel cased ammo would cover a new barrel and a new extractor.

Evil Monkey · December 9, 2015, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Even it ever becomes an issue, I would imagine that the cost savings from firing steel cased ammo would cover a new barrel and a new extractor.

First, the extractor will not necessarily wear faster. Any additional force needed to pull steel casings out of the chamber is still not enough to ever contend with the extractors shear strength.

Second, I did the math a while ago and you could replace an AR15 barrel for example, maybe 3 times in x-amount of rounds and still save quite a bit of money over shooting brass cased ammo and never replacing the barrel.

Nodak1858 · December 9, 2015, 03:06 AM

I have no issues in shooting steel case ammo. I've shot alot in rifle and hand guns.
And yes I reload it for 223 and 45ACP. A few crack here and there during resizing but other than that no problems. If I see decent fired steel cases at the range I grab them if they're boxer primed, waste not want not.

skizzums · December 9, 2015, 03:55 AM

steel cased ammo isn't an issue, although it can sometime get the rim broken off by the extractor due to being les flexible than brass and having longer spring back time, the extractor is sometimes trying to extract the case before it has shrunk back to size. This is rarely an issue, and i haven't ever had it be an issue in pistols, but i also haven't used much steel in pistols. but note that tula, wolf etc also have "bi-metal" jackets, as stated on the package. there are a couple detailed tests that show the harder jacket, composed of a brass/steel alloy, wears a barrel about 25% faster. the test also showed that the cost savings over brass casings was so vast that you even saved money despite sooner rebarrelings. i wouldn't use steel cased ammo in an emergency situation, since i have experienced the rim breakage on a couple occasions causing a stoppage, but i still use it for the range when taking friends and not feeling like reloading. I don't see why the steel case itself would pose an issue with wearing your firearm, excluding the fact that it may not seal the chamber 100% and leave you with a dirtier gun quicker than brass.

Andy Blozinski · December 10, 2015, 12:01 PM

My Walther PPS would chew through any brass cased ammo you put through it. Heck, our first day on the range with it we put 500 rounds through without even re-oiling it and didn't have a single jam.
Steel cased rounds....jamming. Two different steel cased brands. Jamming. After the second time I gave some lucky (or unlucky) fellow standing next to me over 100 rounds of steel cased ammo for free.

Evil Monkey · December 10, 2015, 01:14 PM

Quote:

teel cased rounds....jamming. Two different steel cased brands. Jamming.

what kind of jamming?

Fail to feed?
Fail to extract?
Fail to eject?

Tell me exactly what's going on. Tell me the position of the round when it "jammed" and everything else.

BigJimP · December 11, 2015, 06:54 PM

The ranges in my area - have strict rules on no steel or aluminum cases in ammo.../ and I reload, so I stick with brass ( and I respect the rules of the ranges I frequent).

I don't know that steel cases cause any issues in any gun ...in the few cases where I've looked at guns that have fired a few boxes of steel it was significantly dirtier - but that can be for all kinds of reasons.

I wouldn't mix them with brass either...

JDBerg · December 15, 2015, 07:41 AM

Quote:

...My entire life I have only shot brass casings, and my intuition tells me mixing back and forth with steel in the same gun isn't ideal for quality care.

That said, is there any truth to my assumption? Additionally, why is it that steel gets a bad rep and is often cheaper? I imagine it may do more damage to the bore or something along those lines, but I would like to hear from the more inclined.

I have a Gen4 Glock 21 that I shoot nothing but steel and aluminum case ammo with, it shoots the TulAmmo steel case and Fed Champion aluminum case ammo beautifully, and there have been no adverse effects on the bore, extractor, or the ejector. I have heard that the steel cases can cause damage to an extractor but I have not seen this, and it doesn't concern me.

Yankee Traveler · December 15, 2015, 03:42 PM

Quote:

I shoot a little steel cased ammo from 9mm SW M&Ps. I avoid it in my 1911s as steel cased ammo has been known to cause issues with primer flow in some 1911s.

Forgive my ignorance.
What is "primer flow"?

Andy Blozinski · December 16, 2015, 10:13 PM

Sorry, Monkey. Don't particularly remember. They made my gun malfunction and that was the end of me caring about them.

CajunBass · December 20, 2015, 06:52 AM

The only steel case ammo I've ever fired was for and in Com-Bloc surplus arms. Worked fine in those.

I don't know that I've ever even seen steel case ammo for anything else, but then I seldom buy factory ammo.

December 7, 2015, 09:48 PM	#1
blitzer Junior Member Join Date: December 7, 2015 Posts: 5	Ammo: Brass vs. Steel and Mixing Newbie to the forum here, fellas. Glad to be here and start contributing to the conversation. I'm not new to firearms, but would not consider myself some sort of expert. My entire life I have only shot brass casings, and my intuition tells me mixing back and forth with steel in the same gun isn't ideal for quality care. That said, is there any truth to my assumption? Additionally, why is it that steel gets a bad rep and is often cheaper? I imagine it may do more damage to the bore or something along those lines, but I would like to hear from the more inclined. Thanks in advance.

December 7, 2015, 10:44 PM	#2
Evil Monkey Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Posts: 812	There's nothing wrong with steel cased ammo. It's cheap because, well....steel is cheap material. That's not to say it's low quality. If you shoot steel cased ammo, be sure to clean the chamber before shooting brass again because steel cased ammo doesn't obturate as effectively as brass and therefore, will have more carbon build up on the chamber walls that can cause brass cased ammo to fail to extract afterward. Otherwise, there is no problem unless the company of the ammunition is not doing their part in quality control. __________________ BREAKING NEWS: Local man found in the street yelling "1911" and "45" while drooling, more at 11:00.

December 7, 2015, 10:52 PM	#3
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	Steel cased cartridges came into use during WW II when copper was becoming scarce. This before stainless steel was developed that was suitable for cartridge cases. After the war surplus steel cased .45 ACP ammunition, and German 9mm Parabellum became available. The German ammunition was labeled "for machine pistol use only", or words to that effect. Stories began to circulate of broken or torn out extractors in auto pistols from using steel cased ammunition. Certainly the handloader would not likely to be wanting to use steel cases in his dies. But as far as damage to the pistol, I know of no documented case where damage has occurred by using steel cased ammunition. As to mixing, my guess would be that bullet pull would be greatly different when using mixed brass and steel cases. This would have an effect on accuracy, just as using two different brands of brass would have. From a practical standpoint, and not needing the finest accuracy, I can't see it makes much difference. Bob Wright __________________ Time spent at the reloading bench is an investment in contentment.

December 8, 2015, 11:05 AM	#6
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	If the steel that's used for ammunition cartridge cases is harder than the barrel chambers or extractors in a gun, then you don't want to shoot that particular gun. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

December 8, 2015, 02:08 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...steel that's used for ammunition cartridge cases is harder than the barrel chambers or extractors..." Is not and will never be harder than any of the steel used in any firearm. "...the steel casings are always coated..." No they aren't. Certainly not with polymers. The Russian stuff has lacquer on it though. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

December 8, 2015, 10:52 AM	#4
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	I stick with brass for two reasons: First and foremost, I reload. Secondly, there is a little portion of my brain that wonders if steel, being a harder metal, increases the wear on my pistols just a bit over brass. As the very knowledgeable Mr. Wright points out, I don't have any hard data to confirm my worry, but I would kind of rather my pistols not become part of the data set if it develops.

December 8, 2015, 03:02 PM	#9
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	I simply do not buy steel cased ammunition. There are two reasons: 1. I reload all my ammunition for all my firearms except for rim fire. 2. Because of # 1. above, I seldom buy new ammunition. Therefore, I do not care what other than brass cased ammunition does or does not do to a firearm.

December 8, 2015, 04:22 PM	#12
blitzer Junior Member Join Date: December 7, 2015 Posts: 5	Thanks for all of the information, everyone. Definitely gives me something to chew on. For the time being I think I will just stick with my brass, but whatever gun I purchase next might get fed a couple hundred rounds of steel first.

December 8, 2015, 04:39 PM	#13
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	I shoot a little steel cased ammo from 9mm SW M&Ps. I avoid it in my 1911s as steel cased ammo has been known to cause issues with primer flow in some 1911s.

December 8, 2015, 05:16 PM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I shoot some steel cased .45 ACP in my 1911 just because it's cheap and accurate and I get tired of chasing brass all the time. It feels good to fire off a few mags and not have to watch where the cases fall.

December 9, 2015, 12:45 AM	#15
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	Steel cased ammo generally has a steel jacketed bullet as well. It does accelerate barrel wear in rifles. At the low velocity of handgun projectiles, I would imagine it is less of an issue. Even it ever becomes an issue, I would imagine that the cost savings from firing steel cased ammo would cover a new barrel and a new extractor.

December 9, 2015, 03:06 AM	#17
Nodak1858 Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2009 Location: N. Dakota Posts: 435	I have no issues in shooting steel case ammo. I've shot alot in rifle and hand guns. And yes I reload it for 223 and 45ACP. A few crack here and there during resizing but other than that no problems. If I see decent fired steel cases at the range I grab them if they're boxer primed, waste not want not. __________________ We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

December 9, 2015, 03:55 AM	#18
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	steel cased ammo isn't an issue, although it can sometime get the rim broken off by the extractor due to being les flexible than brass and having longer spring back time, the extractor is sometimes trying to extract the case before it has shrunk back to size. This is rarely an issue, and i haven't ever had it be an issue in pistols, but i also haven't used much steel in pistols. but note that tula, wolf etc also have "bi-metal" jackets, as stated on the package. there are a couple detailed tests that show the harder jacket, composed of a brass/steel alloy, wears a barrel about 25% faster. the test also showed that the cost savings over brass casings was so vast that you even saved money despite sooner rebarrelings. i wouldn't use steel cased ammo in an emergency situation, since i have experienced the rim breakage on a couple occasions causing a stoppage, but i still use it for the range when taking friends and not feeling like reloading. I don't see why the steel case itself would pose an issue with wearing your firearm, excluding the fact that it may not seal the chamber 100% and leave you with a dirtier gun quicker than brass. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

December 10, 2015, 12:01 PM	#19
Andy Blozinski Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2013 Posts: 525	My Walther PPS would chew through any brass cased ammo you put through it. Heck, our first day on the range with it we put 500 rounds through without even re-oiling it and didn't have a single jam. Steel cased rounds....jamming. Two different steel cased brands. Jamming. After the second time I gave some lucky (or unlucky) fellow standing next to me over 100 rounds of steel cased ammo for free.

December 11, 2015, 06:54 PM	#21
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	The ranges in my area - have strict rules on no steel or aluminum cases in ammo.../ and I reload, so I stick with brass ( and I respect the rules of the ranges I frequent). I don't know that steel cases cause any issues in any gun ...in the few cases where I've looked at guns that have fired a few boxes of steel it was significantly dirtier - but that can be for all kinds of reasons. I wouldn't mix them with brass either...

December 16, 2015, 10:13 PM	#24
Andy Blozinski Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2013 Posts: 525	Sorry, Monkey. Don't particularly remember. They made my gun malfunction and that was the end of me caring about them.

December 20, 2015, 06:52 AM	#25
CajunBass Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 4,767	The only steel case ammo I've ever fired was for and in Com-Bloc surplus arms. Worked fine in those. I don't know that I've ever even seen steel case ammo for anything else, but then I seldom buy factory ammo. __________________ For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV)