IDENTIFY: French 20ga hammerless s/s

mwb · February 7, 2006, 12:38 AM

I need info on this gun. I found french proof marks in the Gun Blue Book: 2 crown like emblems followed by "st etienne", these are stamped on the underside of the barrel. Also, under the same heading, it stated: circa 1897, double proof finished joined barrels. Also, under barrel and inside breech are the following: F.MAGAND, (M&P), 17.0, 21, 70, E.J, a crown with PT under it, choke rectifie', cannon de......, and double......( these last 2 I believe were poorly stamped ). It is a hammerless side by side, it is fully engraved, in above average condition, has sling rings, and the only external writing is the s for safety. Other than French made, i have no clue as to the manufacturer or of any possible value. Any knowledge or insight would be appreciated.

James K · February 7, 2006, 10:01 PM

French proof marks are confusing but what you describe sounds like fairly modern markings. A picture would certainly help as the shape of the crown and the size of the letters changed over time.

Jim

Jim Watson · February 8, 2006, 07:53 AM

I am away from my references for proof marks but this sounds like a typical French shotgun made by one Mseu. F. Magand, whoever he was.
I have a similar Verney Carron shotgun that is so marked in tiny letters in with the proof marks. Verney Carron was (Still is!) a well known French gunmaker and I don't know why they did not trademark my gun more prominently.

The "70" is probably the chamber length, 2 3/4", which dates the gun well after 1897 which is just the date that set of proof marks came into use.

mwb · February 11, 2006, 09:27 PM

thanks guys, all info greatly appreciated. marvin

February 7, 2006, 12:38 AM	#1
mwb Junior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Posts: 2	IDENTIFY: French 20ga hammerless s/s I need info on this gun. I found french proof marks in the Gun Blue Book: 2 crown like emblems followed by "st etienne", these are stamped on the underside of the barrel. Also, under the same heading, it stated: circa 1897, double proof finished joined barrels. Also, under barrel and inside breech are the following: F.MAGAND, (M&P), 17.0, 21, 70, E.J, a crown with PT under it, choke rectifie', cannon de......, and double......( these last 2 I believe were poorly stamped ). It is a hammerless side by side, it is fully engraved, in above average condition, has sling rings, and the only external writing is the s for safety. Other than French made, i have no clue as to the manufacturer or of any possible value. Any knowledge or insight would be appreciated.

February 11, 2006, 09:27 PM	#4
mwb Junior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Posts: 2	Big Thanks thanks guys, all info greatly appreciated. marvin

February 7, 2006, 10:01 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	French proof marks are confusing but what you describe sounds like fairly modern markings. A picture would certainly help as the shape of the crown and the size of the letters changed over time. Jim

February 8, 2006, 07:53 AM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	I am away from my references for proof marks but this sounds like a typical French shotgun made by one Mseu. F. Magand, whoever he was. I have a similar Verney Carron shotgun that is so marked in tiny letters in with the proof marks. Verney Carron was (Still is!) a well known French gunmaker and I don't know why they did not trademark my gun more prominently. The "70" is probably the chamber length, 2 3/4", which dates the gun well after 1897 which is just the date that set of proof marks came into use.