Ruger 10 22 full auto conversion legalities

INGunGuy · November 30, 2008, 07:17 PM

OK, before we get into a you cant do this or do that legally, all I need to know is can I convert my Ruger 10 22 to full auto and register it as a FA firearm with the BATF. I understand about the $200 and background checks, etc, etc, etc, but before I undertake this endeavor, I need to know if I can even do it.

I appreciate any information someone can provide.

Thanks,

INGunGuy

PTK · November 30, 2008, 08:45 PM

Nope, no new MG registrations after May 1986. Sorry! To get a full auto 10/22, expect to pay between $8,000 and $10,000.

Hkmp5sd · November 30, 2008, 09:04 PM

As stated, you can only buy a machinegun (in this case, a full auto 10/22) that was registered prior to May, 1986. After that date, no machineguns can be registered for civilian consumption.

INGunGuy · November 30, 2008, 10:36 PM

So then, if I were to register as a manufacturer of firearms, would I then be able to convert my 10 22?

Thanks,

INGunGuy

David Hineline · November 30, 2008, 11:07 PM

If you want to run a firearms manuf. business you could get your manuf. license and pay the yearly SOT fee to manuf. NFA weapons. Then you could make a full auto 10-22 to sell to other dealers or manuf or police departments.

You will never be able to keep it.

Your cheapest way to get a full auto 10-22 would be to buy 2 of them now at 10k$ each , and shoot one for the next 10yrs then sell one of them for $20k.

INGunGuy · November 30, 2008, 11:19 PM

I appreciate all the feedback so far, as I am under-educated about some of the more specifics of owning fully automatic firearms. Since my 10 22 was manufactured before the 1984 ban, would it still fall into the category of being unable to be converted to full auto? So, do the modifications, and register the gun as a pre-84 ban machine gun?

Thanks in advance.

INGunGuy

David Hineline · December 1, 2008, 12:02 AM

Use a bit of common sense, if all semi auto guns made before 1986 ban could now be converted to full auto and registered, why would people be paying $10,000 for a machinegun, when they could just buy an old semi auto and convert it.

INGunGuy · December 1, 2008, 12:13 AM

Well, I am just trying to get all my ducks in a row. So from what I can tell, the ONLY way I can possess NFA weapons would be to purchase a weapon that has been registered, pay the tax, get the background check, then after all is finished, go pick up the weapon.

Correct?

Thanks,

INGunGUy

PTK · December 1, 2008, 12:14 AM

For machineguns, yes. For other items you still have the option of getting a tax stamp and making your own.

David Hineline · December 1, 2008, 03:12 AM

You also must ask your local Chief Law Enforcement Officer for his signature on the forms, if they do not want NFA for you, then a whole new set of paperwork begins to go around the CLEO signoff.

Start by reading this.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wba...st/nfa_faq.txt

Then contact your local CLEO and ask if they will sign a form for you to build op buy whatever you decide upon.

INGunGuy · December 1, 2008, 10:46 AM

I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to educate me on the more specifics of owning a NFA firearm, more specifically a machine gun. I have been reading thru the text of the FAQ ON NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT WEAPONS. I may still have some questions, because it seems like unless you are a lawyer you need one to understand some aspects of it.

Thanks,

INGunGuy

RJay · December 1, 2008, 11:17 AM

I know Ingunguy was sincere in his inquiries, but if it were anyone else I would think it was perhaps a reporter or some other individual trying to dig up a angle for a " Did you know" story,

VUPDblue · December 1, 2008, 01:05 PM

INgunguy, I assume by your username that you are an Indiana resident. If so, you might want to check out www.ingunowners.com Some very helpful local folks over there

INGunGuy · December 1, 2008, 04:20 PM

Yes I am a resident of Indiana, and yes I am a legal gun owner. That is why I am attempting to get all specific information on owning NFA firearms.

Thanks,

INGunGuy

VUPDblue · December 1, 2008, 07:54 PM

Sorry if I offended, I didn't mean to imply that you weren't a legal gun owner, I was simply suggesting that you might enjoy our little local forum...

Nick

Alpine Storm · December 1, 2008, 08:33 PM

sounds like a mole to me

INGunGuy · December 1, 2008, 10:04 PM

NO offense taken at all! LOL. Just stating that I am. Anyway, I have been reading, and why cant I make a machine gun on Form 1, or is that only for supressors, SBR's and SBS's

INGunGuy

PTK · December 1, 2008, 11:05 PM

The Hughes Amendment to the 1986 FOPA added 922(o) to the USC... basically, no more new MGs for civilians, period - since it's after the date that law was signed, no more new MGs for civilians, so no more Form 1 MGs. The other classes of NFA items were unaffected, so you can still Form 1 those.

David Hineline · December 2, 2008, 01:07 AM

And that ban was signed into law by our Favorite Republican of all Times Ronald Regan.

Hkmp5sd · December 2, 2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

And that ban was signed into law by our Favorite Republican of all Times Ronald Regan.

With the complete approval of the NRA. Reagan offered to veto it. NRA decided the benefits of the '86 FOPA outweighed losing new machineguns.

INGunGuy · December 2, 2008, 05:15 PM

Well, as far as I can tell, unless you are a manufacturer of firearms, you cant build a new machine gun. My question is if being a manufacturer is all I have to do, then why cant I become a manufacturer and have a R&D department that must build machine guns for testing purposes? I may be splitting hairs, and I dont know what else to do other than to pay for an over-priced NFA machine gun.

Thanks,

INGunGuy

Hkmp5sd · December 2, 2008, 06:06 PM

You can become a manufacturer, but you must go all the way. You must have a shop, applicable business licenses, tax numbers and you must engage in the business of manufacturing machineguns for sale. As you will be competing against H&K, Colt, S&W and a host of other manufacturers, the odds of you selling to Law Enforcement and/or the Federal Government (your only remaining clients) are pretty slim. IIRC, the SOT needed to manufacture machineguns is $1,000/year.

Lots of people have thought of this as a way to get around 922(o), including ATF. If they decide you are doing this for the reason of acquiring machineguns for your personal use, they will prosecute you for tax evasion, perjury, illegal possession of machineguns and anything else they can think of.

Either you pay the money for an existing machinegun or you do without.

INGunGuy · December 2, 2008, 08:32 PM

Well hopefully someday we can get The Hughes Amendment thrown out as unconstitutional since it is too restrictive. Anyway, I guess for now I need to save save save so I can get a legal machine gun.

Thanks for all the info!

INGunGuy

David Hineline · December 2, 2008, 08:38 PM

You can be a manuf. but you can't do it to make machineguns for yourself, you have to do it as a business. Lots of people do it but it's like being a Crack dealer, lots of money to be made unless you are addicted to your own product, then you will end up pennyless living in the gutter with a sign that says will work for ammo.

You can get a SWD M11 9mm SMG for around $3500 and be a lot happier in the long run.

ScottsGT · December 4, 2008, 11:42 AM

You can thank Charlie Wrangel for sneaking in the clause to close the registration for new mfgr machine guns in that bill. I read somewhere it was an 11th hour addition?

November 30, 2008, 07:17 PM	#1
INGunGuy Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2008 Location: Jeffersonville, Indiana Posts: 142	Ruger 10 22 full auto conversion legalities OK, before we get into a you cant do this or do that legally, all I need to know is can I convert my Ruger 10 22 to full auto and register it as a FA firearm with the BATF. I understand about the $200 and background checks, etc, etc, etc, but before I undertake this endeavor, I need to know if I can even do it. I appreciate any information someone can provide. Thanks, INGunGuy

November 30, 2008, 11:07 PM	#5
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	If you want to run a business If you want to run a firearms manuf. business you could get your manuf. license and pay the yearly SOT fee to manuf. NFA weapons. Then you could make a full auto 10-22 to sell to other dealers or manuf or police departments. You will never be able to keep it. Your cheapest way to get a full auto 10-22 would be to buy 2 of them now at 10k$ each , and shoot one for the next 10yrs then sell one of them for $20k.

November 30, 2008, 11:19 PM	#6
INGunGuy Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2008 Location: Jeffersonville, Indiana Posts: 142	10 22 legalities I appreciate all the feedback so far, as I am under-educated about some of the more specifics of owning fully automatic firearms. Since my 10 22 was manufactured before the 1984 ban, would it still fall into the category of being unable to be converted to full auto? So, do the modifications, and register the gun as a pre-84 ban machine gun? Thanks in advance. INGunGuy

December 1, 2008, 12:13 AM	#8
INGunGuy Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2008 Location: Jeffersonville, Indiana Posts: 142	Common sense is fine sometimes... Well, I am just trying to get all my ducks in a row. So from what I can tell, the ONLY way I can possess NFA weapons would be to purchase a weapon that has been registered, pay the tax, get the background check, then after all is finished, go pick up the weapon. Correct? Thanks, INGunGUy

December 1, 2008, 03:12 AM	#10
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	CLEO You also must ask your local Chief Law Enforcement Officer for his signature on the forms, if they do not want NFA for you, then a whole new set of paperwork begins to go around the CLEO signoff. Start by reading this. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wba...st/nfa_faq.txt Then contact your local CLEO and ask if they will sign a form for you to build op buy whatever you decide upon.

November 30, 2008, 08:45 PM	#2
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	Nope, no new MG registrations after May 1986. Sorry! To get a full auto 10/22, expect to pay between $8,000 and $10,000.

November 30, 2008, 09:04 PM	#3
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	As stated, you can only buy a machinegun (in this case, a full auto 10/22) that was registered prior to May, 1986. After that date, no machineguns can be registered for civilian consumption.

November 30, 2008, 10:36 PM	#4
INGunGuy Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2008 Location: Jeffersonville, Indiana Posts: 142	So then, if I were to register as a manufacturer of firearms, would I then be able to convert my 10 22? Thanks, INGunGuy

December 1, 2008, 12:02 AM	#7
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Use a bit of common sense, if all semi auto guns made before 1986 ban could now be converted to full auto and registered, why would people be paying $10,000 for a machinegun, when they could just buy an old semi auto and convert it.

December 1, 2008, 12:14 AM	#9
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	For machineguns, yes. For other items you still have the option of getting a tax stamp and making your own.

December 1, 2008, 10:46 AM	#11
INGunGuy Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2008 Location: Jeffersonville, Indiana Posts: 142	Information I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to educate me on the more specifics of owning a NFA firearm, more specifically a machine gun. I have been reading thru the text of the FAQ ON NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT WEAPONS. I may still have some questions, because it seems like unless you are a lawyer you need one to understand some aspects of it. Thanks, INGunGuy

December 1, 2008, 11:17 AM	#12
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	I know Ingunguy was sincere in his inquiries, but if it were anyone else I would think it was perhaps a reporter or some other individual trying to dig up a angle for a " Did you know" story,

December 1, 2008, 01:05 PM	#13
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	INgunguy, I assume by your username that you are an Indiana resident. If so, you might want to check out www.ingunowners.com Some very helpful local folks over there __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

December 1, 2008, 04:20 PM	#14
INGunGuy Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2008 Location: Jeffersonville, Indiana Posts: 142	Indiana Gun Owner Yes I am a resident of Indiana, and yes I am a legal gun owner. That is why I am attempting to get all specific information on owning NFA firearms. Thanks, INGunGuy

December 1, 2008, 07:54 PM	#15
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	Sorry if I offended, I didn't mean to imply that you weren't a legal gun owner, I was simply suggesting that you might enjoy our little local forum... Nick __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

December 1, 2008, 08:33 PM	#16
Alpine Storm Member Join Date: March 14, 2007 Location: Utah Posts: 18	sounds like a mole to me

December 1, 2008, 10:04 PM	#17
INGunGuy Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2008 Location: Jeffersonville, Indiana Posts: 142	NO offense taken at all! LOL. Just stating that I am. Anyway, I have been reading, and why cant I make a machine gun on Form 1, or is that only for supressors, SBR's and SBS's INGunGuy

December 1, 2008, 11:05 PM	#18
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	The Hughes Amendment to the 1986 FOPA added 922(o) to the USC... basically, no more new MGs for civilians, period - since it's after the date that law was signed, no more new MGs for civilians, so no more Form 1 MGs. The other classes of NFA items were unaffected, so you can still Form 1 those.

December 2, 2008, 01:07 AM	#19
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	And that ban was signed into law by our Favorite Republican of all Times Ronald Regan.

December 2, 2008, 05:15 PM	#21
INGunGuy Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2008 Location: Jeffersonville, Indiana Posts: 142	New Machine Guns... Well, as far as I can tell, unless you are a manufacturer of firearms, you cant build a new machine gun. My question is if being a manufacturer is all I have to do, then why cant I become a manufacturer and have a R&D department that must build machine guns for testing purposes? I may be splitting hairs, and I dont know what else to do other than to pay for an over-priced NFA machine gun. Thanks, INGunGuy

December 2, 2008, 06:06 PM	#22
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	You can become a manufacturer, but you must go all the way. You must have a shop, applicable business licenses, tax numbers and you must engage in the business of manufacturing machineguns for sale. As you will be competing against H&K, Colt, S&W and a host of other manufacturers, the odds of you selling to Law Enforcement and/or the Federal Government (your only remaining clients) are pretty slim. IIRC, the SOT needed to manufacture machineguns is $1,000/year. Lots of people have thought of this as a way to get around 922(o), including ATF. If they decide you are doing this for the reason of acquiring machineguns for your personal use, they will prosecute you for tax evasion, perjury, illegal possession of machineguns and anything else they can think of. Either you pay the money for an existing machinegun or you do without. Last edited by Hkmp5sd; December 2, 2008 at 06:11 PM. Reason: gotta learn to type

December 2, 2008, 08:32 PM	#23
INGunGuy Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2008 Location: Jeffersonville, Indiana Posts: 142	Well hopefully someday we can get The Hughes Amendment thrown out as unconstitutional since it is too restrictive. Anyway, I guess for now I need to save save save so I can get a legal machine gun. Thanks for all the info! INGunGuy

December 2, 2008, 08:38 PM	#24
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	You can be You can be a manuf. but you can't do it to make machineguns for yourself, you have to do it as a business. Lots of people do it but it's like being a Crack dealer, lots of money to be made unless you are addicted to your own product, then you will end up pennyless living in the gutter with a sign that says will work for ammo. You can get a SWD M11 9mm SMG for around $3500 and be a lot happier in the long run.

December 4, 2008, 11:42 AM	#25
ScottsGT Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 2001 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 236	You can thank Charlie Wrangel for sneaking in the clause to close the registration for new mfgr machine guns in that bill. I read somewhere it was an 11th hour addition?