Mauser Model 98 Bolt Disassembly ??

TGS · November 27, 2002, 02:09 PM

A friend brought over a mil Mod 98 8mm mauser that was packed with cosmoline and after a good cleaning I noticed the safety wouldnt engage and thought I might disassemble the bolt and see if I could figure out why.
Disassembly instructions say to cock the bolt and engage the safety then depress the bolt sleeve pin and unscrew the sleeve.
Problem is the saftety wont engage.
As far as unscrewing the bolt sleeve the pin wont push back far enough to allow it to rotate. Is this going to be a problem in that the safty wont engage and if I dont engage the safety I wont be able to rotate the sleeve?
For what reason might the safety lever not rotate?
Tom

DnPRK · November 27, 2002, 04:39 PM

The safety catches the edge of the cocking piece when the safety is in the vertical position. You may have to pull back on the sear surface of the cocking piece to get the safety to engage. I like to use the sharp edge of the kitchen counter to pull the cocking piece back (pisses off the wife though).

See parts # 6 & 7 of the attached
xxxhttp://www.urban-armory.com/diagrams/mauser98.htm

saands · November 27, 2002, 05:24 PM

I've found that the square edge of a freshly cut 2x4 works almost as well as the kitchen counter (which works almost as well as the dining room table ... just kidding

) ... the 2x4 is completely spouse safe, however, so it is worth pursuing. These bolt assemblies are a COMPLETE mystery until you take one apart ... then it all makes sense

Saands

TGS · November 28, 2002, 11:22 AM

I didnt get in too much trouble though I didnt attempt to disassemble the bolt as yet (it will have to wait till tomorrow as the wife has other plans for today

What im wondering is why might the safety not engage when I cock the bolt in the reciever?

saands · November 28, 2002, 01:36 PM

Well ... let's start at the beginning ...

When you close the bolt, does the firing pin stay in the rearward position? Does the firing pin strike when you pull the trigger?

If the answers are yes and the safety doesnt engage, then it might be that the hook on the sear is very worn ... so much so that it is holding the firing pin in a position that is too far forward to allow the safety to engage. It also might be that the safety has been messed with ... disassembly will reveal issues there.

Actually, I guess it is worth noting that I am assuming that the trigger assembly is installed ... if it isn't then the safety will certainly not engage!

Saands

James K · November 28, 2002, 10:24 PM

CAUTION!

If the safety will not engage when the firing pin is cocked, someone has been messing with the gun. Do not work on the safety to try to get it to work, because if it engages the gun may go off when it is disengaged.

The safety must retract the firing pin enough to back it off the sear and allow the sear to reset if the trigger is pulled with the safety on. If that is not done, the gun can fire when the safety is taken off even if the trigger is not pulled.

If you are not sure what is involved, take the rifle to a competent gunsmith.

Jim

TGS · November 29, 2002, 07:39 PM

Shouldnt have anything to do with it should it. The safety should engage regardless of there being or not being a round in the chamber shouldnt it.
I disassembled and cleaned the bolt looking for any sign of something be broken or ground on or modified for one reason or another but nothing seems out of the ordinary.
The sear seems to engage well. What I did notice is that the cocking sleeve has to be moved reward significantly when the bolt is out and Im posotioning the safety to the on position as though when locking the bolt it doesnt move the sleeve far enough rearward.
Having a round in the chamber wouldnt make any difference would it?

saands · November 29, 2002, 08:05 PM

NOPE ... and I wouldn't suggest putting a round in that one unless you are in a place where you are OK with a discharge ... something is NOT right and should be made right before you continue ...

Saands

TGS · November 29, 2002, 08:34 PM

I'll dig around a bit and see if I can find a second bolt for comparison. Be sure I wont be chamber anything until I figure out what the deal is. Theres a local gunshow coming up soon and I'll see what i can find out.
It is quite an interesting design. Wonder how someone thinks this stuff up. After its all apart and you put it back togeather it almost makes sense. Im wondering if this one could be put togeather with parts from other assemblies and possibly some parts are just not interchanable.
But to answer your questions yes to both the triggr assmbly is installed and the firing pin does strike (dowl rod).
Should the safety "cam" at all? Or should it just rotate to block the cocking sleeve..
Wish I had a good one on hand at the moment.

saands · November 29, 2002, 10:59 PM

The Mauser safeties don't really cam ... and they don't really just rotate in either

I'm not looking at one right now and I hope that I'm not confusing two different designs in my mind, but the way that I recall them functioning is that as you rotate the safety into position, it engages a surface (ramped to a flat)that actually moves the firing pin rearward and holding it there, removing contact from the sear. They are not always easy to engage, some of mine have required considerable force until the surfaces were cleaned up.

If I had one with me at the moment, I'd post some pics ... but ...

Hope this helps,

Saands

TGS · November 30, 2002, 01:09 PM

Maybe someone might see something that is significant.
Its a georgous day out and I think I strool up on the hill and see if Mr. Buck might meander beneath my tree stand. I'll take that thing apart this evening and take some pics. Good idea

TGS · November 30, 2002, 09:54 PM

Ill have to try again. What I did notice is that after I cock the bolt and remove it from the reciever I still have to push the cocking piece an aditional .170 before I can "ramp" the safety into position. After I do that I can put the bolt back in the reciever and when I disengage the safety the cocking piece moves back the .170" and then drops the firing pin when I pull the trigger. I need to figure out why I cant get the cocking piece back far enough when I bolt it for the safety to ramp into position.

saands · December 1, 2002, 12:36 AM

I know that the Yugo M48 Mausers have a slightly shorter length action than the K98 Large rings ... I don't know if a Yugo bolt will fit in a K98 or not ... they look pretty much the same, but I've never tried it. 170 mils is an awful lot ... I think that the M48's are only .25" (250 mils) shorter and it may not all be on one end of the bolt ...

Where did this rifle come from?
Where was it made?
What year of manufacture?

When you go to take more pictures, you should make sure that you include as fine a ruler as you can in the picture so that we can compare it ... I know that many of the Turks that I've seen and taken apart, appear to have been assembled from miscellaneous parts ... so I wouldn't declare it impossible that you have the wrong bolt in this rifle ... now I'm really on the "DON'T EVEN THINK OF FIRING THIS THING!!!" bandwagon.

Saands

TGS · December 1, 2002, 01:29 PM

My camera wont do close up such that I can get in close and focus. The grid I tried to use for comparison is .25". I tried a 6" scale but was unable to read the photo. Ill take the parts to the shop tomarrow and use our camera and see if it gets any better.
Its a Turk stamped 1942 and he said he picked it up at a gunshow. The reason Im saying its turk is the cresant moon and star on the reciever. The muzzel is stamped cal 8mm mauser.
Ill attach these and see what they look like. looks like just a single jpg per post and im going to have to do a thing or two before i can post the jpg. ill get it
Tom

saands · December 1, 2002, 01:57 PM

Tomorrow night (12/2) I will be in the presence of several Turks and a Yugo that I can compare ... If we don't figure this out by then, I will take some pics and add dimensions to them ...

Saands

TGS · December 1, 2002, 04:59 PM

Ive yet to figure out how to attach my photo here. If you have an email address I could attach them to an email and shoot them to you

TGS · December 1, 2002, 05:05 PM

but now its attached. the grid is .25" but its not very square) If your able to get some dimensions I can compare.
Ill try another approach with the photo

November 27, 2002, 02:09 PM	#1
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	Mauser Model 98 Bolt Disassembly ?? A friend brought over a mil Mod 98 8mm mauser that was packed with cosmoline and after a good cleaning I noticed the safety wouldnt engage and thought I might disassemble the bolt and see if I could figure out why. Disassembly instructions say to cock the bolt and engage the safety then depress the bolt sleeve pin and unscrew the sleeve. Problem is the saftety wont engage. As far as unscrewing the bolt sleeve the pin wont push back far enough to allow it to rotate. Is this going to be a problem in that the safty wont engage and if I dont engage the safety I wont be able to rotate the sleeve? For what reason might the safety lever not rotate? Tom

November 28, 2002, 11:22 AM	#4
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	That Worked and... I didnt get in too much trouble though I didnt attempt to disassemble the bolt as yet (it will have to wait till tomorrow as the wife has other plans for today What im wondering is why might the safety not engage when I cock the bolt in the reciever?

November 29, 2002, 07:39 PM	#7
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	Round in the chamber? Shouldnt have anything to do with it should it. The safety should engage regardless of there being or not being a round in the chamber shouldnt it. I disassembled and cleaned the bolt looking for any sign of something be broken or ground on or modified for one reason or another but nothing seems out of the ordinary. The sear seems to engage well. What I did notice is that the cocking sleeve has to be moved reward significantly when the bolt is out and Im posotioning the safety to the on position as though when locking the bolt it doesnt move the sleeve far enough rearward. Having a round in the chamber wouldnt make any difference would it?

November 29, 2002, 08:34 PM	#9
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	that about where Im at! I'll dig around a bit and see if I can find a second bolt for comparison. Be sure I wont be chamber anything until I figure out what the deal is. Theres a local gunshow coming up soon and I'll see what i can find out. It is quite an interesting design. Wonder how someone thinks this stuff up. After its all apart and you put it back togeather it almost makes sense. Im wondering if this one could be put togeather with parts from other assemblies and possibly some parts are just not interchanable. But to answer your questions yes to both the triggr assmbly is installed and the firing pin does strike (dowl rod). Should the safety "cam" at all? Or should it just rotate to block the cocking sleeve.. Wish I had a good one on hand at the moment.

November 30, 2002, 01:09 PM	#11
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	I'll post some pic's!!!! Maybe someone might see something that is significant. Its a georgous day out and I think I strool up on the hill and see if Mr. Buck might meander beneath my tree stand. I'll take that thing apart this evening and take some pics. Good idea

November 27, 2002, 04:39 PM	#2
DnPRK Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2001 Location: LC, Ca Posts: 1,917	The safety catches the edge of the cocking piece when the safety is in the vertical position. You may have to pull back on the sear surface of the cocking piece to get the safety to engage. I like to use the sharp edge of the kitchen counter to pull the cocking piece back (pisses off the wife though). See parts # 6 & 7 of the attached xxxhttp://www.urban-armory.com/diagrams/mauser98.htm

November 27, 2002, 05:24 PM	#3
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	I've found that the square edge of a freshly cut 2x4 works almost as well as the kitchen counter (which works almost as well as the dining room table ... just kidding ) ... the 2x4 is completely spouse safe, however, so it is worth pursuing. These bolt assemblies are a COMPLETE mystery until you take one apart ... then it all makes sense Saands

November 28, 2002, 01:36 PM	#5
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	Well ... let's start at the beginning ... When you close the bolt, does the firing pin stay in the rearward position? Does the firing pin strike when you pull the trigger? If the answers are yes and the safety doesnt engage, then it might be that the hook on the sear is very worn ... so much so that it is holding the firing pin in a position that is too far forward to allow the safety to engage. It also might be that the safety has been messed with ... disassembly will reveal issues there. Actually, I guess it is worth noting that I am assuming that the trigger assembly is installed ... if it isn't then the safety will certainly not engage! Saands

November 28, 2002, 10:24 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	CAUTION! If the safety will not engage when the firing pin is cocked, someone has been messing with the gun. Do not work on the safety to try to get it to work, because if it engages the gun may go off when it is disengaged. The safety must retract the firing pin enough to back it off the sear and allow the sear to reset if the trigger is pulled with the safety on. If that is not done, the gun can fire when the safety is taken off even if the trigger is not pulled. If you are not sure what is involved, take the rifle to a competent gunsmith. Jim

November 29, 2002, 08:05 PM	#8
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	NOPE ... and I wouldn't suggest putting a round in that one unless you are in a place where you are OK with a discharge ... something is NOT right and should be made right before you continue ... Saands

November 29, 2002, 10:59 PM	#10
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	The Mauser safeties don't really cam ... and they don't really just rotate in either I'm not looking at one right now and I hope that I'm not confusing two different designs in my mind, but the way that I recall them functioning is that as you rotate the safety into position, it engages a surface (ramped to a flat)that actually moves the firing pin rearward and holding it there, removing contact from the sear. They are not always easy to engage, some of mine have required considerable force until the surfaces were cleaned up. If I had one with me at the moment, I'd post some pics ... but ... Hope this helps, Saands

November 30, 2002, 09:54 PM	#12
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	Pics were lousy Ill have to try again. What I did notice is that after I cock the bolt and remove it from the reciever I still have to push the cocking piece an aditional .170 before I can "ramp" the safety into position. After I do that I can put the bolt back in the reciever and when I disengage the safety the cocking piece moves back the .170" and then drops the firing pin when I pull the trigger. I need to figure out why I cant get the cocking piece back far enough when I bolt it for the safety to ramp into position.

December 1, 2002, 12:36 AM	#13
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	I know that the Yugo M48 Mausers have a slightly shorter length action than the K98 Large rings ... I don't know if a Yugo bolt will fit in a K98 or not ... they look pretty much the same, but I've never tried it. 170 mils is an awful lot ... I think that the M48's are only .25" (250 mils) shorter and it may not all be on one end of the bolt ... Where did this rifle come from? Where was it made? What year of manufacture? When you go to take more pictures, you should make sure that you include as fine a ruler as you can in the picture so that we can compare it ... I know that many of the Turks that I've seen and taken apart, appear to have been assembled from miscellaneous parts ... so I wouldn't declare it impossible that you have the wrong bolt in this rifle ... now I'm really on the "DON'T EVEN THINK OF FIRING THIS THING!!!" bandwagon. Saands

December 1, 2002, 01:29 PM	#14
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	maybe a little better My camera wont do close up such that I can get in close and focus. The grid I tried to use for comparison is .25". I tried a 6" scale but was unable to read the photo. Ill take the parts to the shop tomarrow and use our camera and see if it gets any better. Its a Turk stamped 1942 and he said he picked it up at a gunshow. The reason Im saying its turk is the cresant moon and star on the reciever. The muzzel is stamped cal 8mm mauser. Ill attach these and see what they look like. looks like just a single jpg per post and im going to have to do a thing or two before i can post the jpg. ill get it Tom

December 1, 2002, 01:57 PM	#15
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	Tomorrow night (12/2) I will be in the presence of several Turks and a Yugo that I can compare ... If we don't figure this out by then, I will take some pics and add dimensions to them ... Saands

December 1, 2002, 05:05 PM	#17
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	I dont know what I did different..... but now its attached. the grid is .25" but its not very square) If your able to get some dimensions I can compare. Ill try another approach with the photo