Did I Buy the Wrong Bullets?

B00M_5T1CK · June 12, 2013, 12:51 AM

Hi everyone, first of all I want to say that I have been reloading for a short time, and that when I started, supplies were plentiful and I was able to pick and choose exactly what components I needed. Well now, I'm loading for a new rifle (Remington 700 SPS Varmint 26" Heavy Contour Barrel) chambered in .308win, a caliber that I have not hand loaded in the past.

As we've all experienced, components are in short supply, and seeing as I wanted to get the gun out to the range soon, I spent a couple of days rounding up what supplies I could. I ended up with Winchester Brass, WLR Primers (Also have CCI LRM left over from my old .300 Win Mag), 2 pounds of Accurate 2460, and 200 SMK 155gr HPBT.

As I've been searching for some load data for this combination I've found that data for that powder is somewhat limited, and the data that I can find makes no mention of 155gr SMKs, many jump from 150gr to 168gr. I know that I can use these bullets, but I'm hoping to get some advice on where to start from the good people here because I know that they have a great deal more experience than I do. Thanks in advance for any help!

noylj · June 12, 2013, 01:13 AM

If you want to be perfectly safe, start with the starting load for 168gn. If you are braver, knock 5% off the starting load for 150gn.
Hornady groups their 150 and 155gn bullets all with the same data: A2460 — 38.0gn start and 44.5gn max.
You can call either the bullet or powder manufacturer for data.

PawPaw · June 12, 2013, 01:26 AM

I assume that you've downloaded the Accurate powder load data brochure. That gives loads for both 150 and 168 grain bullets. You can safely use the load data for 168 bullets as a starting point.

B00M_5T1CK · June 12, 2013, 01:30 AM

Thank you, that's very helpful. I tend to be on the safe side with reloading, especially given my relative inexperience, so I'll start with the conservative load for now.

Now I may be asking for trouble because I've read what others have posted on the subject, but what are your thoughts on using Magnum vs. Standard LR primers since 2460 is a spherical powder. My thoughts are that regular primers should be ok, but input is always welcomed.

Fire_Moose · June 12, 2013, 02:29 AM

I've heard magnums are good with spherical powders.

As long as your not on the edge of a Max loads, they can be used instead of. Of course load should be worked up again from Min. When switching componants.

B00M_5T1CK · June 12, 2013, 03:00 AM

I've heard the same thing regarding magnum primers for ball powder, but I guess my concern is more whether or not I would be at a disadvantage using the standard primers.

Sport45 · June 12, 2013, 03:45 AM

No disadvantage to using the standard primers. In fact, you may find they perform better.

steve4102 · June 12, 2013, 10:46 AM

NOTE:

Sierra uses the same data and charge for their 150gr and 155gr bullets.

Use 150gr data, start low and work up>

**Unclenick** · June 12, 2013, 11:33 AM

This is only a 3% increase in bullet weight. The Hornady SST used by Accurate for their data seats to 2.735" with the crimp cannelure level with the case mouth. The Sierra #2156 will seat to 2.800". Because the overall lengths of the two bullets is close, I found in QuickLOAD that this COL difference was enough to make the pressures equal and no powder charge change was necessary. If this is the #2155, which normally seats to 2.775", you might even need slightly more powder to keep pressure equal, because it's a little shorter than the SST and doesn't take up quite as much space.

Hornady listls a lower charge range, 38.0-44.5 grains, than Accurate (40.5-45.0 grains) for the SST. This may be due to Accurate using Winchester brass and Hornady using their own. It may be how the stars lined up that day. In any case, the 38 grain Hornady starting load should not only work with your bullets, but gives you a little more error margin.

Both Accurate and Hornady show Federal 210 primers were used. This is not a magnum primer. A lab tech at Western Powders (distributors for Accurate and Ramshot) told me their deterrent coatings are more modern than are found on the Western Cannon (WC) series of St. Marks spherical powders that the military has used for a long time in their cartridges, with WC846 (sold in burn rate-regulated cannister grade as BL-C(2) by Hodgdon) being the one made for 7.62 NATO ammunition. It is these older sphericals that really need the magnum priming method that CCI redesigned their magnum primer mix for in 1989. Newer sphericals are not so picky and light more easily.

That said, I've found the Ramshot series has the least sensitivity to primer type. I had the experience with Accurate 2520 years ago that I needed to deburr my case flash holes to get it to work well with Federal 210M primers. I didn't think to try a magnum primer at the time, and it may well have solved the problem, too. So, my recommendation is that you try both. If you have a chronograph, this is a good time to drag it out and see which type of primer produces the most velocity consistency after tweaking the charge weight so both produce the same average velocity. That will likely tell you which one you can expect to do best when you find an accuracy load. Alternately, without a chronograph, you can find a best accuracy load with one primer, knock it down 5% and switch primers and work it back up to see if you get better or worse group size precision.

Note that you want to knock it down 5% for the primer switch even if the switch is from magnum to standard. Primer interaction with powder is complex, and every once in awhile a standard primer turns out to make higher pressure with a particular charge/bullet/chambering combination than a magnum primer does.

B00M_5T1CK · June 12, 2013, 04:03 PM

Wow, thanks a ton everyone, this amount of information is fantastic and the main reason I joined this forum in the first place. I'm heading to my reloading bench right now to start my case prep and I'll let everyone here know what I end up with.

I don't have a chronograph yet, but in the past I've just loaded off accuracy results and it's served me fairly well, but once my bank account allows, I'll be picking up a chrono as I know that it is very helpful in building solid load data.

June 12, 2013, 12:51 AM	#1
B00M_5T1CK Junior Member Join Date: June 10, 2013 Posts: 8	Did I Buy the Wrong Bullets? Hi everyone, first of all I want to say that I have been reloading for a short time, and that when I started, supplies were plentiful and I was able to pick and choose exactly what components I needed. Well now, I'm loading for a new rifle (Remington 700 SPS Varmint 26" Heavy Contour Barrel) chambered in .308win, a caliber that I have not hand loaded in the past. As we've all experienced, components are in short supply, and seeing as I wanted to get the gun out to the range soon, I spent a couple of days rounding up what supplies I could. I ended up with Winchester Brass, WLR Primers (Also have CCI LRM left over from my old .300 Win Mag), 2 pounds of Accurate 2460, and 200 SMK 155gr HPBT. As I've been searching for some load data for this combination I've found that data for that powder is somewhat limited, and the data that I can find makes no mention of 155gr SMKs, many jump from 150gr to 168gr. I know that I can use these bullets, but I'm hoping to get some advice on where to start from the good people here because I know that they have a great deal more experience than I do. Thanks in advance for any help!

June 12, 2013, 01:26 AM	#3
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	I assume that you've downloaded the Accurate powder load data brochure. That gives loads for both 150 and 168 grain bullets. You can safely use the load data for 168 bullets as a starting point. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

June 12, 2013, 02:29 AM	#5
Fire_Moose Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2013 Posts: 211	Re: Did I Buy the Wrong Bullets? I've heard magnums are good with spherical powders. As long as your not on the edge of a Max loads, they can be used instead of. Of course load should be worked up again from Min. When switching componants.

June 12, 2013, 03:45 AM	#7
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	No disadvantage to using the standard primers. In fact, you may find they perform better. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

June 12, 2013, 11:33 AM	#9
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	This is only a 3% increase in bullet weight. The Hornady SST used by Accurate for their data seats to 2.735" with the crimp cannelure level with the case mouth. The Sierra #2156 will seat to 2.800". Because the overall lengths of the two bullets is close, I found in QuickLOAD that this COL difference was enough to make the pressures equal and no powder charge change was necessary. If this is the #2155, which normally seats to 2.775", you might even need slightly more powder to keep pressure equal, because it's a little shorter than the SST and doesn't take up quite as much space. Hornady listls a lower charge range, 38.0-44.5 grains, than Accurate (40.5-45.0 grains) for the SST. This may be due to Accurate using Winchester brass and Hornady using their own. It may be how the stars lined up that day. In any case, the 38 grain Hornady starting load should not only work with your bullets, but gives you a little more error margin. Both Accurate and Hornady show Federal 210 primers were used. This is not a magnum primer. A lab tech at Western Powders (distributors for Accurate and Ramshot) told me their deterrent coatings are more modern than are found on the Western Cannon (WC) series of St. Marks spherical powders that the military has used for a long time in their cartridges, with WC846 (sold in burn rate-regulated cannister grade as BL-C(2) by Hodgdon) being the one made for 7.62 NATO ammunition. It is these older sphericals that really need the magnum priming method that CCI redesigned their magnum primer mix for in 1989. Newer sphericals are not so picky and light more easily. That said, I've found the Ramshot series has the least sensitivity to primer type. I had the experience with Accurate 2520 years ago that I needed to deburr my case flash holes to get it to work well with Federal 210M primers. I didn't think to try a magnum primer at the time, and it may well have solved the problem, too. So, my recommendation is that you try both. If you have a chronograph, this is a good time to drag it out and see which type of primer produces the most velocity consistency after tweaking the charge weight so both produce the same average velocity. That will likely tell you which one you can expect to do best when you find an accuracy load. Alternately, without a chronograph, you can find a best accuracy load with one primer, knock it down 5% and switch primers and work it back up to see if you get better or worse group size precision. Note that you want to knock it down 5% for the primer switch even if the switch is from magnum to standard. Primer interaction with powder is complex, and every once in awhile a standard primer turns out to make higher pressure with a particular charge/bullet/chambering combination than a magnum primer does. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; June 13, 2013 at 09:45 AM. Reason: typo fix

June 12, 2013, 01:13 AM	#2
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	If you want to be perfectly safe, start with the starting load for 168gn. If you are braver, knock 5% off the starting load for 150gn. Hornady groups their 150 and 155gn bullets all with the same data: A2460 — 38.0gn start and 44.5gn max. You can call either the bullet or powder manufacturer for data.

June 12, 2013, 01:30 AM	#4
B00M_5T1CK Junior Member Join Date: June 10, 2013 Posts: 8	Thank you, that's very helpful. I tend to be on the safe side with reloading, especially given my relative inexperience, so I'll start with the conservative load for now. Now I may be asking for trouble because I've read what others have posted on the subject, but what are your thoughts on using Magnum vs. Standard LR primers since 2460 is a spherical powder. My thoughts are that regular primers should be ok, but input is always welcomed.

June 12, 2013, 03:00 AM	#6
B00M_5T1CK Junior Member Join Date: June 10, 2013 Posts: 8	I've heard the same thing regarding magnum primers for ball powder, but I guess my concern is more whether or not I would be at a disadvantage using the standard primers.

June 12, 2013, 10:46 AM	#8
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	NOTE: Sierra uses the same data and charge for their 150gr and 155gr bullets. Use 150gr data, start low and work up>

June 12, 2013, 04:03 PM	#10
B00M_5T1CK Junior Member Join Date: June 10, 2013 Posts: 8	Wow, thanks a ton everyone, this amount of information is fantastic and the main reason I joined this forum in the first place. I'm heading to my reloading bench right now to start my case prep and I'll let everyone here know what I end up with. I don't have a chronograph yet, but in the past I've just loaded off accuracy results and it's served me fairly well, but once my bank account allows, I'll be picking up a chrono as I know that it is very helpful in building solid load data.