First Batch of Bullets

[Hunter Customs]

I called a friend that's a bullet caster told him I was planning on getting started in bullet casting and I ask him some question on what he recommended for equipment.

He shows up at my place and this is what he gave me, a Lee electric bottom pour pot, two cast iron pots, an ingot mold, a Lyman 450 sizer/lubricator with heating element, several tubes of Lyman Orange magic bullet lube, a couple of bottles Lee liquid Alox, and several sizing dies with top punches.

He said here this is yours give them a good home.
I tried to pay him for the equipment but he would not have any of that.

I ordered a couple of Lee bullet molds, both 45 caliber one is a 252 gr SWC the other is a 300 gr large LFP gas check mold.

I cast my first bullets a couple of days ago, cast about 600 252 SWC bullets, sized them this morning.

I had about 20 bullets I've culled to be smelted and cast again at a latter date.
I feel I still have a lot to learn but I sure had a good time.

The bullets average in weight 255.1 grs, I smelted range scrap into ingots to use for these.
Most of the scrap started life as 200 gr RNFP bullets I practice with but they have been reborn into 255 SWC bullets.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntecustoms.com

[pathdoc]

That's one Damn good friend you've got.

[Beagle333]

Yep... that's a friend, a good one.
Welcome to the madness!

[Nick_C_S]

I've been around enough years to know the best people are in the shooting sports.

[Mike / Tx]

I ordered a couple of Lee bullet molds, both 45 caliber one is a 252 gr SWC the other is a 300 gr large LFP gas check mold.

I am VERY familiar with those two myself. I have them in the 6 C versions, and they DO throw some nice bullets.

I have found with mine that the 300 RF likes to have the alloy in the 680 - 690'ish degree range to throw the most consistant weights. Poured from straight clip on wheel weight alloy, that is my GO-TO bullet for my 454 hands down. So far I have not found anything which will shoot as accurate.

The 255 is just as accurate out of my Redhawk in 45 Colt. I do however admit though, I am shooting several others out oof it. However with a dose of Unique or HS-6, the 255 is a great all around bullet.

[srtolly1]

That's a great friend. I had a friend give me a pot so I could cast 200 gr LSWC for my shooting habit. That was all I was going to make then. Two years later I'm casting for most of my pistol calibers. Enjoy

[Hunter Customs]

Yes, I have many good friends and I cherish their friendship.

Mike / Tx, thanks for the info on the heat for the 300 gr bullets, I have a lot to learn.
I bought two cavity molds as I did not want to invest a lot in molds until I was sure how much I wanted to pursue bullet casting.
However I believe I'm hooked, thinking about a custom mold now.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

[Mike / Tx]

Mike / Tx, thanks for the info on the heat for the 300 gr bullets, I have a lot to learn.
I bought two cavity molds as I did not want to invest a lot in molds until I was sure how much I wanted to pursue bullet casting.
However I believe I'm hooked, thinking about a custom mold now.

With only the 2C mold your going to have to have to pace yourself. If you just go for it you will be getting some really frosted up bullets by about your 5-8 pour, if your rocking along. You will want to clip the sprue when it cools and dump you bullets, then give it about a 5 count or so after dumping the bullets before you pour the next ones. That should keep plenty of heat in the mold and be right on the edge of frosting, but not quite there yet.

[Hunter Customs]

With only the 2C mold your going to have to have to pace yourself. If you just go for it you will be getting some really frosted up bullets by about your 5-8 pour, if your rocking along. You will want to clip the sprue when it cools and dump you bullets, then give it about a 5 count or so after dumping the bullets before you pour the next ones. That should keep plenty of heat in the mold and be right on the edge of frosting, but not quite there yet.

Mike /Tx , thanks again for the info, as I said before I have a lot to learn.
I experienced exactly what you described when I started rolling along.

What about a steel or brass mold, would you have to go slower with those once they get heated up?

I've been looking at NOE 4 and 5 cavity molds any thoughts on them?

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

[histed]

What alloy are you using? BTW, welcome to the addiction. There is no cure. I have 4 Lee molds for different calibers and, if you follow Mike's advice, you'll be in good shape. I like casting with two molds - usually a 6 cav for 9mm and a 2 cav for 38/357. Your friend wouldn't like to make another friend, would he?
Good people here and if you want a LOT more reading try spending some time at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/. I think it was Mike that suggested the site to me and it has provided a wealth of information.

[skizzums]

congratulations on being able to pick good friends, I need that skillset

I will say, if it wasn't for beagle being a really good guy and sending me a bunch of goodies to test out, I probably wouldn't have started casting myself, the people in this hobby are definitely the best

[Hunter Customs]

histed, I'm not sure what the alloy would be that I'm using, it's range scrap that consist mostly of cast bullets I purchased and practiced with.
I have been to the website you posted the link to, there is a lot of good information there, also watched a lot of you tube videos.

skizzums, I agree the people in this hobby are great people, then again I've found that to be pretty much true with most of my experiences in the shooting sports.
There's a few I might not want to set down and break bread with but in general there's a very large percent (99.9%) that just darn fine people.

I want to thank everyone that posted on this thread and for welcoming me to the world of bullet casting.
My only regret is I got started at this a little late in life, my mind is not as sharp as it once was but I still try to learn all I can.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

[salvadore]

I've been around enough years to know the best people are in the shooting sports.

I've been around enough years to know the best people aren't in the shooting sports. IE east of my town there are some nice back stop cliffs with deeded but not cultivated ground below. There were a few dirt roads so access wasn't a problem. I took my target stand and portable gong target 3 to 5 times a week for casual plinking (retired). Every appliance you can think of as well a TVs makeshift permanent target stands whatever brand of beer and soft drink cans you can imagine not to mention produce and other crap including a gazillion spent shotgun shells left by people in the shooting sports. After a couple of years the land owner cleaned up the mess fenced his property and put up no trespassing signs. So much for a convenient shooting area.

[Mike / Tx]

What about a steel or brass mold, would you have to go slower with those once they get heated up?

I've been looking at NOE 4 and 5 cavity molds any thoughts on them?

Steel, brass, or aluminum, they all have a happy medium, and usually, but not always, it is determined by the number and diameter of the cavities. THe smaller the cavities the faster you usually need to go to keep the temp up or the hotter the alloy needs to be or both. Thee are exceptions to everything so it does help to keep notes on your molds and at what temps they "like" to be run.

NOE makes great molds no question about it, however so does Accurate and a few others. I have a couple of each of the above, but the majority of mine are split between MP and Lee. The main drawback with the MPs are the wait time from conception until you have it in your grubby paws. Sometimes it seems like he will never get around to one, then other times you see some previously made come up for a rerun and sometimes even a re-rerun before he get around to what your waiting on. With NOE or Accurate, this is usually not the case even with a group buy.

I like the Lee molds since I have most of my most shot general purpose bullets in the 6 cavity versions. I also have a few of the 2 C as well but when I fire up on one of those, it REALLY seems like my dump pan will NEVER fill up. I only have a couple of singles in the bunch but those are mainly for rifle which I really haven't jumped into head long as of yet. I'm still having too much fun working with the loads and alloy for my revolvers.

[Hunter Customs]

Mike / Tx , thank you for answering my questions, more good info.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

[histed]

Hunter - I only asked about alloy because it can make a difference in cast diameter. My TL 358-158 SWC drops at 3603(+/-) with clip on wheel weights(COWW) and a little smaller - 3597 (+/-) from softer 20/1. If the range scrap is mostly your own, that's great, I'd love that. Most range scrap is pretty soft.

Unless you intend to push those .45s pretty hard, gas checks shouldn't be necessary. S'up to you, of course, but I get no lead from either my 38/357 or the 9mm without gas checks.

I'm no spring chicken either, my friend. We quit learning the day they throw dirt in our faces. No regrets, just enjoy the moment.

[Hunter Customs]

histed, thanks for the info on the bullet hardness.

The range scrap is mostly mine very little outside stuff as the range is my personal range.

Most of the scrap I'm mining is cast bullets I've purchased and shot, they are advertised as follows (Produced with foundry alloy, 6% antimony, 2% tin, about 17 Brinell hardness) I know they shoot good with no major leading problems.

I did a little mining this evening picked up about half of a large coffee can, 99% were the cast bullets with about 1% jacketed, so there's not a lot of soft lead going into the mix when I melt them into ingots.

I believe I read that you have to be careful when melting the bullets into ingots to not over flux as you will lose some of the antimony from the original mix.
Have you heard anything like that?

I did test fire some of the 255 gr bullets I made, they shot good without a lot of leading, however they were only running about 850 FPS.
I will not be running any past 1000FPS, as a matter of fact my hunting load is averaging 950 FPS.

Thanks again for your help and concerns.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

[Mike / Tx]

I did test fire some of the 255 gr bullets I made, they shot good without a lot of leading, however they were only running about 850 FPS.
I will not be running any past 1000FPS, as a matter of fact my hunting load is averaging 950 FPS.

Just looking at the molds and the velocities your keeping too I would guess your casting for a 45 Colt?

One thing you can try, since you haven't listed your loads,(which is fine), you might go to a little quicker powder or a little more of what your using. It doesn't take much, but sometimes it will make a difference. My Colt loads run in between the listed loads for the older and the Ruger only loads. If you look up the PDF on the 45-270 SAA from Brian Pearce you will see he has three tiers, and most of mine fall within the tier II loads. Then again I am shooting a 7.5" Redhawk, but I have found no need what so ever to really rock out any of the bullets I am pouring for it. They will all shoot usually better than I can hold and will penetrate lengthwise through a 6 gallon bucket of loose sand at 25yds. Don't underestimate the penetration you will get from those lowly ol Lee 255RF's, they will "git-r-dun" for sure. Going up a bit heavier to the 270'ish grain ones just increases that effect. I also highly suggest you looking up the writeup by John Linebaugh "The 45 Colt- Dissolving the Myth". Read through it a couple of times so you get the full flavor of the text. While most of it deals with loads they worked up to the top end of the scale, the jest of it from what I gathered is that it isn't needed, especially when considering the load his wife used on her hunt.

I believe I read that you have to be careful when melting the bullets into ingots to not over flux as you will lose some of the antimony from the original mix.
Have you heard anything like that?

Personally I have read enough to fill a small library on casting. In fact for almost a year or so before I poured my first bullet that is what I did research, take notes, scratch out notes, and take more. It finally got to the point I had information overload, so I just went for it.

One key thing is to keep your temp at or around the lowest melting point you can. This usually works out to be around 680-700 degrees. I use my thermometer to monitor this so I am not adding to the oxidation of my tin and antimony. I know there are posted charts which show the individual points at which this occurs but I figure as long as I am not seeing anything accumulating on the top after the flux, I am in good shape.

When I flux it is usually in my big pot that I give the most attention to. It gets the dirtier stuff that has the majority of gunk in it. I usually will flux it twice with some floor swept sawdust. I start off with the worst of what ever I am working with, and throw in enough to cover the top, then as it starts to smoke I light it off with my BBQ lighter to avoid some of the smoke. Once it is black, I stir it in as well as I can scraping the sides and all as I do. This is usually sufficient to gather up all of the gunk I don't want in my pouring pot. After this I will add in whatever else I have, pure, tin or what not. Once that is stirred in really well I repeat the sawdust once more and then pour ingots. Usually I end up with a mirror looking finish on top and with little to nothing showing like dust floating around the edges.

I haven't noticed a bunch of anything coming out with the second flux other than maybe a little more gunk. It is usually just the burnt sawdust, but it makes me feel like I did all I could to get clean metal. Once in my 4-20 I use about a fingernail sized chunk of paraffin and similar lighting and stirring method. I usually get about a teaspoon of gunk out from that and then proceed to pouring bullets.

Everything I pull out I toss into a metal coffee can and will run it back through my smelting pot once in a while just to gather up whatever might be salvaged. I toss those ingots in with my unknown range scrap when I am making up my "blasting" bullets for just getting trigger time. So far they have all done well and I have had no issues with hardness or anything like that.

[snuffy]

I believe I read that you have to be careful when melting the bullets into ingots to not over flux HEAT as you will lose some of the antimony from the original mix.
Have you heard anything like that?

That statement is correct with heat being substituted for flux. It's not possible to over flux any alloy. But it's real easy to overHEAT it. Alloy above 750 degrees oxidizes the tin out of the alloy very quickly. Tin oxidizes faster than lead or antimony. AND at a lower temperature. So what Mike said is exactly right, with a good lead/tin/antimony alloy, you should not need to go over 700 degrees to get good boolits. A hot mold that's casting at a fast pace will make good, well-filled-out boolits.

A common mistake by new casters is to see wrinkles in the slug, think they need to increase the alloy temp. That burns the tin out of the alloy which makes the wrinkles and fill-out worse.

Sawdust is the perfect flux material. It's especially good for bottom pour pots, because after you let it char, then mix it into the molten lead well, you can leave it on top of the melt to provide a barrier to the oxygen in the air. The tin can't oxidize if it doesn't touch the air. The carbon in the burnt sawdust reduces tin, lead, and antimony back to the metallic state. At the same time it brings dirt to the surface. If I'm starting out cold, once the pot is up to casting temp, I flux with sawdust, stirring the char into the lead. I then remove the charred sawdust along with any dust, dirt or other junk. Then I put some more on top, let it char and leave it there.

Every mold will have it's own favorite pace to produce well filled out boolits. A mold block that's the same size for all boolits that the company makes,(like Lee), can have a tiny .380 boolit of like 85 grains, and a giant .500 making a 440 grainer. The 380 pill will not heat the mold as quickly as the 500, so the 500 would require you to slow way down to prevent frosty boolits.

[Hunter Customs]

Just looking at the molds and the velocities your keeping too I would guess your casting for a 45 Colt?

Mike / Tx, yes sir you are correct about me casting 45 Colt bullets.

As for my loads, like most shooters I've been regulated to what powders I can find at the time I'm loading.
So far I loaded with Unique, SR7625, Universal Clays, W231, 800X, 700X, IMR4227, Alliant2400, HS6, I have some Tite Group, Herco and Accurate7 on hand that I have not loaded with yet with.

My favorite loads so far have been with Unique, HS6, W231 and 700X, right now my hunting load will be with 9.0 grains of Unique, my practice load is with 6.8 grains of 700X.

I have and do read Taffins test, the article by Brian Pierce and the info by John Linebaugh, all good stuff.
I even dug out a 1964 Guns & Ammo (I told you all I was getting a little long in the tooth) that has a good article about 45 Colt loads.

I'm loading my loads for a Cimarron Uberti with a 4 3/4 inch barrel so I stay away from the Ruger only loads.

I appreciate you and snuffy taking the time to answer my question about losing the antimony of the mix when it's actually tin loss from to much heat.
Thank you both for more good info.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com