What to do with Damaged Browning 92 .44mag

PatientWolf · July 18, 2015, 11:37 PM

I picked up a Browning 92 (Miroku) a couple years ago that has turned out to be a very bad investment. It was a consignment gun that evidently some unethical person decided to pass on to someone else. It appeared to be in good condition a and operated very smoothly when I looked at it at the LGS. I made what I considered a reasonable offer and the seller accepted. I picked up some snap caps so I could cycle and dry fire it without worrying about damage.

At home, I eventually learned that the hammer was following if I cycled the lever quickly so I took it to a local smith. He charged me $140 to fix it and to put an abomination of a front sight on the gun. I took it to the range and it operated smoothly for the 20 rounds I fired. I had other guns to shoot that day as well.

Dry cycling the lever a few months later, the hammer was following again. I was not about to go back to the first smith due to the his 2nd grade quality of work on the sight and failure to fix the problem. I took the gun to another smith who was able to locate parts to fix the hammer follow issue.

Then he informed me the gun had bigger problems. Evidently, the previous owner had fired a squib and then fired another round and bulged the barrel. He was not able to locate a replacement barrel.

So being the person I am, i refused to pass a damaged gun to another unsuspecting person, but I have no use for a gun I can't shoot.

What would you do in this situation? The way I see it, my options are:

1. Trade it in if I can find a police gun turn-in day.
2. Take it home and keep trying to find a barrel (though I doubt the gun is worth that).
3. Try to part out the good components.

10-96 · July 19, 2015, 01:46 AM

All may not be lost for the rifle. I didn't see any .44mag barrels with a brief search. I did, however, come across a .44-40bbl for 180.00. I don't know if having the dovetails cut, and the bbl stub threaded would be a deal breaker- but it very well could be for someone. You might re-check with some Smiths.

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/wl44362...pered-octagon/

mehavey · July 19, 2015, 06:07 AM

OOOOoooorrrrr.... (and I smile here

), the OP could garner
some real Range-Wow Factor and convert to that 44-40.

`Course `ya gotta be a reloader to get full potential, but just
add that to the RWF.

Salmoneye · July 19, 2015, 06:18 AM

Orrrr...

You could have the barrel relined...

olddav · July 19, 2015, 08:11 AM

Time is on your side as you already own the rifle and it cost you nothing to hold on to it. If finding a barrel proves to be impossible then perhaps you could convert it to a "Mares Leg" (depending on where the bulge is located). Your final option, as you stated, is part it out and sometimes that is the best option. Good luck on however you choose to deal with it.

One final thought. The seller may have inherited the rifle without ever knowing of the problem. Then again they may have been less than honest.

precision_shooter · July 19, 2015, 09:18 AM

You can sell it, just be open and honest about what the issues are. Someone with a working 92 may want it as a whole for the parts...

natman · July 19, 2015, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Orrrr...

You could have the barrel relined...

Not to 44 Magnum, too much pressure. 44-40 is possible.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...prod10976.aspx

g.willikers · July 19, 2015, 10:15 AM

Or, if it's safe to continue using, just keep shooting it for fun.
Not every gun we own has to be perfect to be enjoyed.
Lots of barrels still shoot good enough even with flaws.
Did the smith who noticed the bulge tell you not to shoot it ever again?

A friend managed to very slightly bulge the barrel in his High Power and continued using it for years that way.
He claimed the bulge tightened up the barrel to slide and improved the accuracy.
It did still shoot pretty good.

I once had a .22 with a bend in the barrel.
After repeated attempts to straighten it I finally just learned to live with it and aim to the right a little.
It still provided a lot of good range time.
And a lot of fun when your hot shot pal challenges to a impromptu contest and you get to choose the shootin' iron.

Like you I won't pass on defective stuff unless it's to a knowledgeable person with full disclosure.
Surprisingly there are plenty of folks who don't mind the challenge.
So you more than likely will find a few at any show that you can sell it to with a clear conscience.

Salmoneye · July 19, 2015, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Orrrr...

You could have the barrel relined...

Not to 44 Magnum, too much pressure. 44-40 is possible.

Hmm...

After researching, I see you are right...I apologize for the suggestion...

Could the following be a viable option?

Find a .357 barrel, and have the chamber recut for .357/.44 Bain & Davis?

mehavey · July 19, 2015, 01:41 PM

Troops, a 44-40/High-Velocity load (as originally set up for the `92) puts a 200gr
slug out at 1,500-1,600fps from a rifle barrel -- and is nothing to sneeze at.

Bake · July 19, 2015, 01:51 PM

If it shoots to a 3 MOA, I would just keep shooting it,

AK103K · July 19, 2015, 02:18 PM

You could strip it to parts and sell them off individually. I did this over the winter with a couple of old rifles I had laying around, that werent in firing shape and pretty rough. I made out quite well selling them on EBay, and got a lot more than I would have ever got selling them intact.

There is a thriving parts business going on there, and pretty much everything sells. I would sell the barrel, and any parts you think might be an issue as well, just describe whats up with them and let the buyer decide. Ill bet someone buys them.

Art Eatman · July 19, 2015, 08:06 PM

Shot 20 rounds through the bulged barrel and nothing bad happened? Okay, so if the group size isn't horrible, and it hits as aimed, I see no reason to not shoot it.

That buys time for decision-making at some later date. "I gotta do something!" is what politicians do.

FrankenMauser · July 20, 2015, 12:24 AM

Options that come to mind, but haven't been addressed yet...

1. Sell it to someone that understands the condition and wants the rifle for parts or to rebarrel it.

2.a. Depending upon where the bulge is, it may be possible to chop the barrel and recrown.
2.b. Depending upon where the bulge is, it may be possible to chop the barrel and permanently install a barrel extension to keep it legal length (muzzle brake, bloop tube, whatever...).
2.c. Depending upon where the bulge is, it could be a candidate for a Short-Barrel-Rifle application (Mare's Leg?).

3. If the bugle is small and concentric, it may be safe to continue shooting it as-is.

4. Use it for shot shells.

If it were up for sale, I would be an interested party (as-is). But you'd likely be out of my price range, even with the defects.

Bill DeShivs · July 20, 2015, 02:20 AM

Bulged barrels seldom affect accuracy. Just keep the gun, shoot it and enjoy it.
Think about it-you didn't even KNOW the barrel was bulged until you were told about it.

**Mike Irwin** · July 20, 2015, 06:33 AM

"Bulged barrels seldom affect accuracy. Just keep the gun, shoot it and enjoy it."

This. I've seen barrels that look as if a snake is swallowing an egg, and yet they still turn in excellent accuracy.

natman · July 20, 2015, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Find a .357 barrel, and have the chamber recut for .357/.44 Bain & Davis?

Funny you should mention that, the same idea crossed my mind. Then I realized that it probably won't be any easier to find a 357 replacement barrel than it was to find a 44.

Magnum Wheel Man · July 20, 2015, 01:20 PM

you could sell it to me, & I'd have my retired machinist buddy rebarrel it for me from a 44 barrel blank

I'm sure you could find someone to do the same for you...

BTW... while I've seen bulged barrels that shot OK... I could never own one... just knowing it was bulged & weaker in that area...

FrankenMauser · July 20, 2015, 03:12 PM

Quote:

BTW... while I've seen bulged barrels that shot OK... I could never own one... just knowing it was bulged & weaker in that area

There are, or have been at least five concentrically bulged barrels in my family - ranging from .22 LR to .30-40 Krag.

Most remain in use and perform as well as ever.
The Krag, however, had a tendency to lose the gas seal in the chamber when light loads and/or short-bearing-surface bullets were used. The bulge was long enough that the bullet had to jump the gap, and, with some loads, pressure would drop enough to lose the chamber seal. ...That, of course, resulted in terrible performance and the shooter getting a little blast of air in the face (but never debris and the puff of air was not hot enough or violent enough to cause worry).
Since light loads were the prescription for that rifle, and it didn't do well with them, I chose to let it go.

There's also a dented shotgun barrel (12 ga Win M25). Over the years, it has mostly straightened itself out.

PatientWolf · July 20, 2015, 04:57 PM

Just to let everyone know, I am still out here and sol lowing the thread.

I spoke with the smith again today and discussed the possibility to use it with the bulge. He said that if it were him he would not, and so I will take his advice.

The I followed the link to the .44-40 barrel and it appears it is only 11" long. That would probably generate some unwanted interest at the range since it would become an SBR. For me, anyway, it would need to be a .44 mag or .357. I doubt the .357 conversion would be worth the cost to me.

The I was told the bulge was near the barrel band. I asked if the position of the bulge would allow the barrel to be shortened from 20" to 16", but no luck there either.

I'm not sure the even cost to re-barrel would be worthwhile, but am considering it and still looking for a barrel. One potential issue is the fact that the Miroku (I think I misspelled it in the OP) may have Japanese threads.

jmr40 · July 20, 2015, 05:27 PM

I'd get a 2nd opinion from another gunsmith. I'd bet it is still safe to shoot and he is going err on the side of caution with his advice. I still don't see the problem with shortening the barrel if the bulge is that close to the muzzle. cutting down Marlin 30-30's to 16-17" is a fairly common modification.

skizzums · July 20, 2015, 06:11 PM

You should be good with cutting it down. Sounds like the bulge would put it very close to the 16" mark and could easily be lengthened to legal with a pinned/welded muzzle device. Plus it would be a practically free alteration and make for a pretty interesting one-of-a-kind rifle.

My favorite suggestion is the mares leg, but would require the 200$ since your starting with a rifle.

HiBC · July 27, 2015, 07:40 PM

I was given one of those carbines as a Christmas gift.I'm 6'3" and large.That gun just did not fit me.
A friend,who also had one,is 6'6".He also has a lathe and a Bridgeport...and an assortment of old gun parts.
We bought two Douglas basic unturned barrel blanks.A couple of evenings work,and both were rifle length tapered octagons.I had an English walnut blank,plain,but hard and fine grained.Proper crescent butt plates,old Win forendcaps,mag tube hanger,etc was scrounged.

Time they were done,only the action itself was used.

I marked the height center of my eye ,standing,on a doorjam with a pencil.Top of my shoulder,etc.Used a shotgun LOP gauge,etc.Figured stock dims,laid it out.

If I look at a spot,close my eyes,shoulder the rifle,open my eyes,I have sight picture on target.
Both of those rifles are beautiful,and in public,folks want to know where they can get one.

dakota.potts · July 30, 2015, 01:49 PM

You could cut it way down to 10" or so and have a very large muzzle attachment permanently affixed to the barrel to make it 16" and keep it legal. I bet you'd be the only on that had a rifle like that

Dragline45 · July 30, 2015, 03:40 PM

Either sell it as parts gun, piece it out and sell the parts themselves, or cut it down, have the barrel threaded, and fix a muzzle device to bring it up to 16"

What it really comes down to is do you want to sink any more money into the gun.

July 18, 2015, 11:37 PM	#1
PatientWolf Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Location: NC Posts: 947	What to do with Damaged Browning 92 .44mag I picked up a Browning 92 (Miroku) a couple years ago that has turned out to be a very bad investment. It was a consignment gun that evidently some unethical person decided to pass on to someone else. It appeared to be in good condition a and operated very smoothly when I looked at it at the LGS. I made what I considered a reasonable offer and the seller accepted. I picked up some snap caps so I could cycle and dry fire it without worrying about damage. At home, I eventually learned that the hammer was following if I cycled the lever quickly so I took it to a local smith. He charged me $140 to fix it and to put an abomination of a front sight on the gun. I took it to the range and it operated smoothly for the 20 rounds I fired. I had other guns to shoot that day as well. Dry cycling the lever a few months later, the hammer was following again. I was not about to go back to the first smith due to the his 2nd grade quality of work on the sight and failure to fix the problem. I took the gun to another smith who was able to locate parts to fix the hammer follow issue. Then he informed me the gun had bigger problems. Evidently, the previous owner had fired a squib and then fired another round and bulged the barrel. He was not able to locate a replacement barrel. So being the person I am, i refused to pass a damaged gun to another unsuspecting person, but I have no use for a gun I can't shoot. What would you do in this situation? The way I see it, my options are: 1. Trade it in if I can find a police gun turn-in day. 2. Take it home and keep trying to find a barrel (though I doubt the gun is worth that). 3. Try to part out the good components. Last edited by PatientWolf; July 20, 2015 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Corrected spelling out of respect for the company.

July 19, 2015, 01:46 AM	#2
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,160	All may not be lost for the rifle. I didn't see any .44mag barrels with a brief search. I did, however, come across a .44-40bbl for 180.00. I don't know if having the dovetails cut, and the bbl stub threaded would be a deal breaker- but it very well could be for someone. You might re-check with some Smiths. http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/wl44362...pered-octagon/ __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

July 19, 2015, 08:11 AM	#5
olddav Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2008 Location: Lower Alabama Posts: 727	Time is on your side as you already own the rifle and it cost you nothing to hold on to it. If finding a barrel proves to be impossible then perhaps you could convert it to a "Mares Leg" (depending on where the bulge is located). Your final option, as you stated, is part it out and sometimes that is the best option. Good luck on however you choose to deal with it. One final thought. The seller may have inherited the rifle without ever knowing of the problem. Then again they may have been less than honest. __________________ Never beat your head against the wall with out a helmet Last edited by olddav; July 19, 2015 at 08:18 AM.

July 19, 2015, 09:18 AM	#6
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	You can sell it, just be open and honest about what the issues are. Someone with a working 92 may want it as a whole for the parts... __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

July 19, 2015, 10:15 AM	#8
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Or, if it's safe to continue using, just keep shooting it for fun. Not every gun we own has to be perfect to be enjoyed. Lots of barrels still shoot good enough even with flaws. Did the smith who noticed the bulge tell you not to shoot it ever again? A friend managed to very slightly bulge the barrel in his High Power and continued using it for years that way. He claimed the bulge tightened up the barrel to slide and improved the accuracy. It did still shoot pretty good. I once had a .22 with a bend in the barrel. After repeated attempts to straighten it I finally just learned to live with it and aim to the right a little. It still provided a lot of good range time. And a lot of fun when your hot shot pal challenges to a impromptu contest and you get to choose the shootin' iron. Like you I won't pass on defective stuff unless it's to a knowledgeable person with full disclosure. Surprisingly there are plenty of folks who don't mind the challenge. So you more than likely will find a few at any show that you can sell it to with a clear conscience. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” Last edited by g.willikers; July 19, 2015 at 10:35 AM.

July 19, 2015, 06:07 AM	#3
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	OOOOoooorrrrr.... (and I smile here ), the OP could garner some real Range-Wow Factor and convert to that 44-40. `Course `ya gotta be a reloader to get full potential, but just add that to the RWF.

July 19, 2015, 06:18 AM	#4
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	Orrrr... You could have the barrel relined...

July 19, 2015, 01:41 PM	#10
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Troops, a 44-40/High-Velocity load (as originally set up for the `92) puts a 200gr slug out at 1,500-1,600fps from a rifle barrel -- and is nothing to sneeze at.

July 19, 2015, 01:51 PM	#11
Bake Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2012 Location: San Joaquin Valley, Calif. Posts: 482	If it shoots to a 3 MOA, I would just keep shooting it, __________________ 1. The pattern board is your friend, use the Dam thing!!! 2. The maximum range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually measured in miles, and means nothing. 2a. The effective range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually (the ability of the shooter) measured in yards, and means everything.

July 19, 2015, 02:18 PM	#12
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	You could strip it to parts and sell them off individually. I did this over the winter with a couple of old rifles I had laying around, that werent in firing shape and pretty rough. I made out quite well selling them on EBay, and got a lot more than I would have ever got selling them intact. There is a thriving parts business going on there, and pretty much everything sells. I would sell the barrel, and any parts you think might be an issue as well, just describe whats up with them and let the buyer decide. Ill bet someone buys them.

July 19, 2015, 08:06 PM	#13
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Shot 20 rounds through the bulged barrel and nothing bad happened? Okay, so if the group size isn't horrible, and it hits as aimed, I see no reason to not shoot it. That buys time for decision-making at some later date. "I gotta do something!" is what politicians do.

July 20, 2015, 12:24 AM	#14
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Options that come to mind, but haven't been addressed yet... 1. Sell it to someone that understands the condition and wants the rifle for parts or to rebarrel it. 2.a. Depending upon where the bulge is, it may be possible to chop the barrel and recrown. 2.b. Depending upon where the bulge is, it may be possible to chop the barrel and permanently install a barrel extension to keep it legal length (muzzle brake, bloop tube, whatever...). 2.c. Depending upon where the bulge is, it could be a candidate for a Short-Barrel-Rifle application (Mare's Leg?). 3. If the bugle is small and concentric, it may be safe to continue shooting it as-is. 4. Use it for shot shells. If it were up for sale, I would be an interested party (as-is). But you'd likely be out of my price range, even with the defects. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

July 20, 2015, 02:20 AM	#15
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	Bulged barrels seldom affect accuracy. Just keep the gun, shoot it and enjoy it. Think about it-you didn't even KNOW the barrel was bulged until you were told about it. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 20, 2015, 06:33 AM	#16
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"Bulged barrels seldom affect accuracy. Just keep the gun, shoot it and enjoy it." This. I've seen barrels that look as if a snake is swallowing an egg, and yet they still turn in excellent accuracy. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 20, 2015, 01:20 PM	#18
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	you could sell it to me, & I'd have my retired machinist buddy rebarrel it for me from a 44 barrel blank I'm sure you could find someone to do the same for you... BTW... while I've seen bulged barrels that shot OK... I could never own one... just knowing it was bulged & weaker in that area... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

July 20, 2015, 04:57 PM	#20
PatientWolf Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Location: NC Posts: 947	Just to let everyone know, I am still out here and sol lowing the thread. I spoke with the smith again today and discussed the possibility to use it with the bulge. He said that if it were him he would not, and so I will take his advice. The I followed the link to the .44-40 barrel and it appears it is only 11" long. That would probably generate some unwanted interest at the range since it would become an SBR. For me, anyway, it would need to be a .44 mag or .357. I doubt the .357 conversion would be worth the cost to me. The I was told the bulge was near the barrel band. I asked if the position of the bulge would allow the barrel to be shortened from 20" to 16", but no luck there either. I'm not sure the even cost to re-barrel would be worthwhile, but am considering it and still looking for a barrel. One potential issue is the fact that the Miroku (I think I misspelled it in the OP) may have Japanese threads. Last edited by PatientWolf; July 20, 2015 at 05:04 PM.

July 20, 2015, 05:27 PM	#21
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	I'd get a 2nd opinion from another gunsmith. I'd bet it is still safe to shoot and he is going err on the side of caution with his advice. I still don't see the problem with shortening the barrel if the bulge is that close to the muzzle. cutting down Marlin 30-30's to 16-17" is a fairly common modification.

July 20, 2015, 06:11 PM	#22
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	You should be good with cutting it down. Sounds like the bulge would put it very close to the 16" mark and could easily be lengthened to legal with a pinned/welded muzzle device. Plus it would be a practically free alteration and make for a pretty interesting one-of-a-kind rifle. My favorite suggestion is the mares leg, but would require the 200$ since your starting with a rifle. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

July 27, 2015, 07:40 PM	#23
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,287	I was given one of those carbines as a Christmas gift.I'm 6'3" and large.That gun just did not fit me. A friend,who also had one,is 6'6".He also has a lathe and a Bridgeport...and an assortment of old gun parts. We bought two Douglas basic unturned barrel blanks.A couple of evenings work,and both were rifle length tapered octagons.I had an English walnut blank,plain,but hard and fine grained.Proper crescent butt plates,old Win forendcaps,mag tube hanger,etc was scrounged. Time they were done,only the action itself was used. I marked the height center of my eye ,standing,on a doorjam with a pencil.Top of my shoulder,etc.Used a shotgun LOP gauge,etc.Figured stock dims,laid it out. If I look at a spot,close my eyes,shoulder the rifle,open my eyes,I have sight picture on target. Both of those rifles are beautiful,and in public,folks want to know where they can get one. Last edited by HiBC; July 27, 2015 at 07:53 PM.

July 30, 2015, 01:49 PM	#24
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	You could cut it way down to 10" or so and have a very large muzzle attachment permanently affixed to the barrel to make it 16" and keep it legal. I bet you'd be the only on that had a rifle like that __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

July 30, 2015, 03:40 PM	#25
Dragline45 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Posts: 3,513	Either sell it as parts gun, piece it out and sell the parts themselves, or cut it down, have the barrel threaded, and fix a muzzle device to bring it up to 16" What it really comes down to is do you want to sink any more money into the gun. Last edited by Dragline45; July 30, 2015 at 05:31 PM.