The Perfect Pistol - Page 2

natjohnb · October 7, 2009, 05:49 PM

This one:

http://www.coltsmfg.com/products-c5-..._PISTOLS.aspx#

Colt Special Combat Government Carry (O1970CY)

LE'Intellegence · October 7, 2009, 05:51 PM

EMP in .40

LordofWar · October 8, 2009, 01:17 PM

I have yet to find Holland & Holland quality in the handgun world.

A bespoke pistol.

IanS · October 8, 2009, 01:50 PM

For a SD/HD/Range pistol is a pistol of the handcrafted quality of Holland and Holland necessary or even desireable? We have long been in a period where pure technology has enabled function to surpass form or craftmanship, at least in terms of guns for self defense. An equal shooter with a Benelli or Remington (semi or pump) would have the edge over someone with a Holland and Holland Over Under (no matter how beautifully it may shoulder). I thought that's what your thread was about. Not guns to appreciate by the fireplace and appreciate its fine lines and fittings.

And esp. human nature being the way it is not many people would take a $20,000 handmade hangun and put it through the rigors of a Glock or even a $2000 semicustom 1911. It becomes more an heirloom for most people than a weapon.

Stevie-Ray · October 8, 2009, 02:01 PM

My perfect pistol for all the above would definitely be a 1911 type in .45 ACP. Since I have 2 full-sized 1911s and one officer's size, it would probably be Commander-sized, and definitely Colt. Do I have a particular model in mind, well, no not yet.

gyvel · October 8, 2009, 04:58 PM

Perfect for...........?

LordofWar · October 8, 2009, 06:48 PM

IanS,

I concur. But it gives more pleasure if you actually use that bespoke weapon made ONLY for you regularly.

Called Glock but they only do LE sales in our part of the world. HK flatly refused. I called Sig and they told me they will contact me shortly on this so I think they might have something.

MTS840 · October 9, 2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Glock 19.

+1

Hard to argue with a handgun that is simple, reliable, concealable and has a 15 round magazine capacity. It just works.

LordofWar · October 9, 2009, 05:08 AM

Yes. Glock 19 is my perfect pistol for now.

iblong · October 9, 2009, 07:23 AM

Perfect is in the Eye of the beholder.My eyes prefer any good quallity 1911.
Bob.

armsmaster270 · October 9, 2009, 10:17 AM

I prefer the Sig 226 in 40 or .357Sig

GetYerShells · October 9, 2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

I prefer the Sig 226 in 40 or .357Sig

+1

Perfect is a relative term. What is perfect for most people (1911 any type) certainly may not be perfect for someone like me. Sig Sauer P226 is what I consider the perfect pistol. Perfect combination of firepower (15 rounds of .40 S&W) and features (night sights, rail). But again that's just what works for me.

Ticman · October 9, 2009, 12:11 PM

I would say the Glock 23. More power than a 9mm. More capacity than a 45 but hit's just as hard and penetrates better. Also, conceals better than a 45. (Same frame as the 9mm) Stone cold reliable in any conditions. Easy to work on and parts are cheap.

Even better would be the G32 (357 sig) but that wasn't on the list. Since penetration is the number one concern in a defensive pistol the 357 sig does it better than the calibers given. And still in a 9mm size frame.

armsmaster270 · October 9, 2009, 02:58 PM

I marked the 357Sig on mine as it uses both barrels 40 & 357 utilizing the same Magazine for both.

Getyershells: you have an aftermarket extended mag? The factory hi-cap is 12 rounds on 40/357 and 15 on 9mm

Officer's Match · October 9, 2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

I would say the Glock 23. More power than a 9mm. More capacity than a 45 but hit's just as hard and penetrates better.

Not sure I'd agree w' the part I made bold.

stingerspray · October 9, 2009, 05:57 PM

I love the barretta's. If they chambered the 92 in .40 smith and wes, oh yes.

MLeake · October 9, 2009, 06:00 PM

... the Beretta 92 in .40S&W is the Beretta 96. IE, they do make it.

greensteelforge · October 9, 2009, 06:30 PM

There are tons of fine pistols out there, and plenty of them excel at one thing and not another. Subjectively, I find the Beretta M9 to be one of the finest, fastest handling, and consistent pistols I've ever had in my armory. I do get a charge out of the guys talking magazine capacity like it will help out if you are outnumbered. Three to eight "bad guys" would all have to be armed to be considered a mortal threat. I've been in plenty of gunfights in Baghdad, and in plenty of them I was alone in my turret with no other armed support immediately available. If I had been armed with a high capacity handgun facing three or more armed hostiles, I'd look for cover, and an escape route. If they'd been using live ammo in all those movies some of us love, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, and even Lee Marvin would all have been stone dead on the first take. Gunfights are like a couple of big guys duking it out with sledge hammers; whoever lands the first good shot wins. If you think you're going to stand down the "bad guys" with your pistola, and march off into the sunset behind a pile of bodies, you'll be really shocked to find your pants full, and your critical parts leaking from multiple holes. Yakking is fine, but let's keep in mind that the kind of weapon we're talking about here demands allot of respect, and shouldn't be treated or even thought of as a toy.

LordofWar · October 9, 2009, 06:47 PM

+1.

Nicely put GreenSteelforge.

MLeake · October 9, 2009, 06:53 PM

... but I'm still trying to figure out what you meant by:

Quote:

Three to eight "bad guys" would all have to be armed to be considered a mortal threat.

For one thing, it goes against the grain of the rest of your post.

For another thing, there's a video out there of a Texas constable who got bum-rushed by three unarmed guys during a routine traffic stop gone wrong. They weren't armed at first, but after overpowering him, they shot him with his duty sidearm.

So three guys definitely do not have to be armed to pose a "mortal threat."

I'm guessing you dropped a word or two somewhere during editing, and the statement didn't say what you'd intended it to say.

hickok45 · October 9, 2009, 07:28 PM

Glock 27 or Glock 23. Lots of other guns I like and would not be unhappy with, but there's no amount of money that could buy anything any better or more reliable.

Officer's Match · October 9, 2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Glock 27 or Glock 23. Lots of other guns I like and would not be unhappy with, but there's no amount of money that could buy anything any better or more reliable.

Coming from you sir that does indeed say something to me.

headbangerJD · October 9, 2009, 09:13 PM

if money was not an issue, I'd call up Kahr and have'em build me a double stack P40

**Tom Servo** · October 9, 2009, 10:25 PM

S&W K-Frame .357's are it for me.

If it had to be one o' them newfangled automatics, the Sig P220 or CZ-75. Both guns are completely dependable and marvelously accurate.

BillCA · October 10, 2009, 03:35 AM

The "perfect" cartridge came out some years back in the form of the .41 AE (Action Express). Alas, it was too odd to be accepted at the time and the rebated rim didn't help.

Start with the initial chambering(s) - .45 ACP, 10mm, .40 S&W as a baseline. Design the gun to handle the full-goose gonzo 10mm load (200gr bullet at 1300 fps).

I'd start with the dimensions of the Para-Ord P-13/14 frame or Colt Commander. Within that size limitation, I'd want a 10-round .45ACP/10mm magazine. In addition, I'd want a DAO design similar to the Kahr's trigger. That long DA revolver-like trigger does not require a safety and will be accurate if it is smooth and consistent. The Model II could be either an SA style or SA/DA with a frame mounted safety. The barrel could be ported thru the slide for the 10mm.

To meet certain requirements a loaded chamber indicator should be built in. An easily removed or deactivated magazine disconnector included to meet some state requirements too.

I'd look at the possibility of mounting the magazine release in a frontstrap recess much like S&W did with their 422/221x series. This eliminates the need for swappable or ambidexterous buttons.¹ A grip safety is unnecessary with the DAO model but present in other models. An ambi-slide release positioned slightly rearward of where the 1911's is, so you don't need to rotate the grip during a reload. The rear of the frame would include an arched housing like the 1911-A1 for better hand fit.

Finishing touches would include cocking serrations at the rear, a matte stainless steel finish, bead-blasted slide top to prevent glare, Novak 3-dot carry sights, rosewood or cocobolo wood grips², beveled magazine well, and a low-profile rail for light mounts on the dust cover.

End result: A matte stainless steel, DAO, "safetyless" pistol the size of a Para-Ord P14/13, with 10rds of 10mm/.40/.45, a 3.5" to 4" ported barrel, a rotating bolt system, ambi-slide release, with 3-dot sights. Swapping between 10mm & .40S&W requires only a barrel (and recoil spring) change.

¹ To be abandoned in favor of a traditional mag release if prototypes show accidental release of the magazine under recoil. This was not a problem with the .22 cal 422 of course.
² Unless the frame is made from polymer. For the 10mm I'd prefer a stainless frame for recoil damping.

October 8, 2009, 01:50 PM	#29
IanS Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,632	For a SD/HD/Range pistol is a pistol of the handcrafted quality of Holland and Holland necessary or even desireable? We have long been in a period where pure technology has enabled function to surpass form or craftmanship, at least in terms of guns for self defense. An equal shooter with a Benelli or Remington (semi or pump) would have the edge over someone with a Holland and Holland Over Under (no matter how beautifully it may shoulder). I thought that's what your thread was about. Not guns to appreciate by the fireplace and appreciate its fine lines and fittings. And esp. human nature being the way it is not many people would take a $20,000 handmade hangun and put it through the rigors of a Glock or even a $2000 semicustom 1911. It becomes more an heirloom for most people than a weapon. __________________ Owning a certain handgun isn't a Lifestyle Choice nor is it a Personal Statement. It either works for you or it doesn't. The best article about the 1911 on the internet: http://www.10-8performance.com/1911_Duty_Use.html Last edited by IanS; October 8, 2009 at 01:59 PM.

October 8, 2009, 02:01 PM	#30
Stevie-Ray Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: The shores of Lake Huron Posts: 4,783	My perfect pistol for all the above would definitely be a 1911 type in .45 ACP. Since I have 2 full-sized 1911s and one officer's size, it would probably be Commander-sized, and definitely Colt. Do I have a particular model in mind, well, no not yet. __________________ Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.

October 9, 2009, 10:17 AM	#36
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	I prefer the Sig 226 in 40 or .357Sig __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

October 9, 2009, 02:58 PM	#39
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	I marked the 357Sig on mine as it uses both barrels 40 & 357 utilizing the same Magazine for both. Getyershells: you have an aftermarket extended mag? The factory hi-cap is 12 rounds on 40/357 and 15 on 9mm __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

October 9, 2009, 06:00 PM	#42
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	StingerSpray.... ... the Beretta 92 in .40S&W is the Beretta 96. IE, they do make it.

October 7, 2009, 05:49 PM	#26
natjohnb Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 508	This one: http://www.coltsmfg.com/products-c5-..._PISTOLS.aspx# Colt Special Combat Government Carry (O1970CY)

October 7, 2009, 05:51 PM	#27
LE'Intellegence Member Join Date: November 7, 2006 Posts: 24	EMP in .40

October 8, 2009, 01:17 PM	#28
LordofWar Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2009 Location: Pakistan Posts: 646	I have yet to find Holland & Holland quality in the handgun world. A bespoke pistol.

October 8, 2009, 04:58 PM	#31
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Perfect for...........?

October 8, 2009, 06:48 PM	#32
LordofWar Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2009 Location: Pakistan Posts: 646	IanS, I concur. But it gives more pleasure if you actually use that bespoke weapon made ONLY for you regularly. Called Glock but they only do LE sales in our part of the world. HK flatly refused. I called Sig and they told me they will contact me shortly on this so I think they might have something.

October 9, 2009, 05:08 AM	#34
LordofWar Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2009 Location: Pakistan Posts: 646	Yes. Glock 19 is my perfect pistol for now.

October 9, 2009, 07:23 AM	#35
iblong Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2008 Location: MN Posts: 559	Perfect is in the Eye of the beholder.My eyes prefer any good quallity 1911. Bob.

October 9, 2009, 12:11 PM	#38
Ticman Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 81	I would say the Glock 23. More power than a 9mm. More capacity than a 45 but hit's just as hard and penetrates better. Also, conceals better than a 45. (Same frame as the 9mm) Stone cold reliable in any conditions. Easy to work on and parts are cheap. Even better would be the G32 (357 sig) but that wasn't on the list. Since penetration is the number one concern in a defensive pistol the 357 sig does it better than the calibers given. And still in a 9mm size frame.

October 9, 2009, 05:57 PM	#41
stingerspray Junior Member Join Date: October 7, 2009 Posts: 10	I love the barretta's. If they chambered the 92 in .40 smith and wes, oh yes.

October 9, 2009, 06:30 PM	#43
greensteelforge Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Posts: 90	There are tons of fine pistols out there, and plenty of them excel at one thing and not another. Subjectively, I find the Beretta M9 to be one of the finest, fastest handling, and consistent pistols I've ever had in my armory. I do get a charge out of the guys talking magazine capacity like it will help out if you are outnumbered. Three to eight "bad guys" would all have to be armed to be considered a mortal threat. I've been in plenty of gunfights in Baghdad, and in plenty of them I was alone in my turret with no other armed support immediately available. If I had been armed with a high capacity handgun facing three or more armed hostiles, I'd look for cover, and an escape route. If they'd been using live ammo in all those movies some of us love, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, and even Lee Marvin would all have been stone dead on the first take. Gunfights are like a couple of big guys duking it out with sledge hammers; whoever lands the first good shot wins. If you think you're going to stand down the "bad guys" with your pistola, and march off into the sunset behind a pile of bodies, you'll be really shocked to find your pants full, and your critical parts leaking from multiple holes. Yakking is fine, but let's keep in mind that the kind of weapon we're talking about here demands allot of respect, and shouldn't be treated or even thought of as a toy.

October 9, 2009, 06:47 PM	#44
LordofWar Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2009 Location: Pakistan Posts: 646	+1. Nicely put GreenSteelforge.

October 9, 2009, 07:28 PM	#46
hickok45 Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2000 Location: Nashville, Tn Posts: 212	Glock 27 or Glock 23. Lots of other guns I like and would not be unhappy with, but there's no amount of money that could buy anything any better or more reliable. __________________ www.youtube.com/user/hickok45

October 9, 2009, 09:13 PM	#48
headbangerJD Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2009 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 322	if money was not an issue, I'd call up Kahr and have'em build me a double stack P40 __________________ In the end, shot placement is king, penetration is queen and "stopping power" is the court jester. Everything else is one man's opinion.

October 9, 2009, 10:25 PM	#49
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	S&W K-Frame .357's are it for me. If it had to be one o' them newfangled automatics, the Sig P220 or CZ-75. Both guns are completely dependable and marvelously accurate. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

October 10, 2009, 03:35 AM	#50
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	The "perfect" cartridge came out some years back in the form of the .41 AE (Action Express). Alas, it was too odd to be accepted at the time and the rebated rim didn't help. Start with the initial chambering(s) - .45 ACP, 10mm, .40 S&W as a baseline. Design the gun to handle the full-goose gonzo 10mm load (200gr bullet at 1300 fps). I'd start with the dimensions of the Para-Ord P-13/14 frame or Colt Commander. Within that size limitation, I'd want a 10-round .45ACP/10mm magazine. In addition, I'd want a DAO design similar to the Kahr's trigger. That long DA revolver-like trigger does not require a safety and will be accurate if it is smooth and consistent. The Model II could be either an SA style or SA/DA with a frame mounted safety. The barrel could be ported thru the slide for the 10mm. To meet certain requirements a loaded chamber indicator should be built in. An easily removed or deactivated magazine disconnector included to meet some state requirements too. I'd look at the possibility of mounting the magazine release in a frontstrap recess much like S&W did with their 422/221x series. This eliminates the need for swappable or ambidexterous buttons.¹ A grip safety is unnecessary with the DAO model but present in other models. An ambi-slide release positioned slightly rearward of where the 1911's is, so you don't need to rotate the grip during a reload. The rear of the frame would include an arched housing like the 1911-A1 for better hand fit. Finishing touches would include cocking serrations at the rear, a matte stainless steel finish, bead-blasted slide top to prevent glare, Novak 3-dot carry sights, rosewood or cocobolo wood grips², beveled magazine well, and a low-profile rail for light mounts on the dust cover. End result: A matte stainless steel, DAO, "safetyless" pistol the size of a Para-Ord P14/13, with 10rds of 10mm/.40/.45, a 3.5" to 4" ported barrel, a rotating bolt system, ambi-slide release, with 3-dot sights. Swapping between 10mm & .40S&W requires only a barrel (and recoil spring) change. ¹ To be abandoned in favor of a traditional mag release if prototypes show accidental release of the magazine under recoil. This was not a problem with the .22 cal 422 of course. ² Unless the frame is made from polymer. For the 10mm I'd prefer a stainless frame for recoil damping. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)