Taurus 709 vs XD-s 9mm looking to buy soon

[georgiacatweazle]

So decided my Sig P250 SC is just a tad too fat as a comfortable carry pistol physically and mentally. even if it fits, my mind isn't at ease with thickness.

Looking at a 709 for around $240 with 2 mags, so add in $40 for a third. or a xds 9mm for around $390 which with a rebate gives me 4 mags.

size on both is the same basically, the xds being about 3/16th less tall (i've handled both together).
guns and ammo reviewed the 709 and got 1.18" groups at 25 yards. i've see the same crazy accuracy from an xds.
the 709 needs a grip sleeve as it's too thin.

i've owned a taurus 740 and it was 100% reliable, the trigger now and then just needed forever to pull it, most people review the 709 trigger as pretty smooth and fairly light for the size of the gun.

upside with xds is the availability of 9 round mags which are good for the range or for a backup mag. plus it comes with 4 (2 in box, 2 rebate).

question is, anyone out there owned both and have any weight towards either ? if no, then would it just come down to what one is cheaper ?

[skizzums]

that's an interesting comparism piece, XDS vs 709, whooda thought. those guns are very different in a lot of aspects and is really going to boil down to a personal decision on feel and budget. other than ech being a single-stack, not aot in common with thoe two. have you looking into the shield 9mm or even the LCR "striker-fired"? those two would be a better comparison IMO.

I would carry the Taurus with confidence personally, and it's slim lines and angle of grip are comfortable and is touted as a very reliable piece. if these things are important, you have a reversible magazine release, which I usually take advantage of and a loaded chamber indicator9who cares) and the Taurus does actually have an adjustable sight, rare on that type of pistol.

the XDS may share some similar dimension, but not really much like the 709. it lacks the oddly high bore axis and has some beefier grips to actually grab onto rather than the 3-fingers your gong to get on the Taurus. XDS will have option for tritium sights for carry, unlike the 709.XDS has interchangeable backsraps...no on 709. I do not believe the XDS has adjustable sights.

both make for a great carry piece, but the XDS can actually be shot comfortably for extended periods, the "slim" not so much and th stature of the 709 dosnt lend well to accuracy. I don't think there is any question which gun is of a igher caliber, but the 709 is still known for long-term reliability if not somewhat ammo sensitive due to steep ramps. BTW...the 709 does have the SA/DA striker like the pt-111 which I find very nice, when your feeling one up in the LGS, make sure to slightly cock the slide so you'll see what the SA trigger feels like, much different than just pulling the trigger when dry-firing. I enjoy the sa/da on the pt111, super short reset and although a heavy pull, less than an 1/8 of an inch from reset to break.

how does the Taurus PT-111 G@ stack up to the XDS(size-wise), because that's a gun that can be shot comfortably and more of a grip surface area/angle/design like the XDS

[DA/SA Fan]

The way I look at it, if I can get an inexpensive gun that gives me what I want for a particular slot, I'll go for it if it's gonna give me acceptable quality. Others may look on it differently though. You see, I am at the beginning of my collection. I have 8 guns bought within the last 3 years. Half of them in the last year. I'll get more in my collection faster just in case politics or money stop me or slow me down in the future. I'll start picking up more expensive guns at a slower rate sooner or later.

[georgiacatweazle]

you're right about the 709 and high bore axis. initially looking at the 709 and xds, the xds looks much less higher in the grip, but it's an optical illusion. just the design on the 709.
both guns have very good reputations, so much so that some people have bought more than one taurus.
i think if both guns were priced evenly, i'd buy the xds, with the 709 being had for under $300 for the pistol and enough mags, my fruggleness kicks in. BUT, fruggleness should be set aside, i've technically got the cash for either spare, and a spare glock i can sell later if i need to replenish funds. i do like the looks of the xds more however.

why can't one of the pistols suck so it makes the choice easier :-) haha

[chrisp51]

I have both and the 709 has a better trigger and has been scary accurate. I like the feel of the xds better but I have put handall jr. on both. For the money the 709 is hard to beat but the mags are hard to find and expensive.

[tallball]

I had a 709. It was completely reliable.

Unfortunately, the trigger was very awkward to use with my extra-long fingers.

[skizzums]

sometime I really feel like I am embarrassing myself everytime I bring this up.....but, what are you getting from either gun that you can't from the PT111G2? I know, I know, here's that guy again, talking about that crappy pistol over and over in every thread....but I do it out of love. I can't tell you how many "sub-compact" pistols I have held, shot, owned etc. this one just seems to fit the bill for everyone's application. it is small, 9mm, every feature you can think of, 100% reliable, short-reset sa trigger with da second strike, capacity way above what seems possible for the size and is actually comfortable to shoot with full adjustable sights. it melts into my hand, much like I used to think the Shield did, then I picked this one up and my Shield has sat in a drawer for two years. I can't tell you what you need, but I can give you the numbers, at least from my end. I don't think it has the XDs beat in the numbers game, but i'll bet it's close enough that very few would actually notice. Not bashing the 709, but what does it do that this does not? I am sorry to be annoying with this and act like the PT111 G2 was handed down to us by the gods themselves, but for the PRICE, size, capacity and reliability, I can't find anything that comes close. I understand that some guns just don't "fit", but with the pistols your comparing, this seems to jump in the middle and may be just right. I would love to hear real-world sizes on the XDS and the 790, I don't think the differences go over a couple tenths. Now, maybe there's some underlying reason that it HAS to be a single stack, if that's the case then I apologize for wasting your time. But if you want single stack because of size, then it shouldn' matter that this happens to be a semi-doublestack, because you really can't tell it from a shield. I have been carrying this everyday for, I think, about a year and a half. has about 1500 rounds through it, 100% reliable except when I tried to feed it .358 cast flats sized down to .357, the feed ramp was just too steep for flat-nose profiles, that was the only malfunction ever and it was because of using improper ammo. I can kill clays at 20 yards with a pocket pistol every shot, I could not with my previous subs. I don't carry this because it was cheap, I have other pistols, I carry it because, IN MY OPINION, it is the best choice for a carry gun period, if concealment is a big factor, at least while staying under 600$. I EDC this at a job that oes not allow carry, and work within inches of co-workers/patients/bosses/police etc and no one has ever busted me. I am very thin, 140 pounds at 6 feet, must have a tucked polo on at work, sometimes I carry on waist with shirt tucked inbetween VersaCarry, but generally just pocket-carry. Winter months that I will definitely have jacket all day, no matter what, I carry a CZ in under-shoulder rig. I can shoot this just as accurate as a compact CZ, just not as fast. but the trigger s the shortest of any micro-nine I have used, it's a little odd but when you get used to the ruper short reset and pull length, you'll end up liking it. but this trigger system really requires you to shoot from reset rather than slapping the trigger, just because it breaks almost at the very back, you'll think you pulled it and nothing happened....when really it's just that you didn't pull back far enough. interesting design on the trigger, I haven't used anything that had one similar, takes a box to get used to it, then it's gravy. anyway, just throwing another option out there for you to consider, and also know that it only costs 200 freakin dollars, or at least it did for while.

compare these sizes to what your looking for and really decide if you could tell the difference in the real-world.

thickest part is the safety

grip at it's widest point

excluding the safety, the entire gun past the grip is sub 1" wide

6" long

the height may be where the other have it beat, I am not sure honestly, but it's not a three finger gun like some others out there, since grip height is usually the most important part of concealment, definitely needs to be considered. I am not quite sure how to measure this dimension, but shows about 4.5 standing at angle, i'll see what the factory spec says.

[georgiacatweazle]

i did look at the pt111/g2, however it had almost the same dimensions as the sig p250 sc i already carry.

'most' of the time the sig is 'ok', but spring/summer clothing and the sig sometimes isn't transparent, i think some of it is in my mind that this pistol is 'fat', but that's part of carrying, 'are you comfortable' with the ccw ?
hence why i'd looking at smaller profile.

i have fired a friends pt111, it's nice enough.

as you took the time to show the pt111, i'll look over the specs on it again and see where it sits with the xds etc.

thanks skizzums

[adamBomb]

Here is a good write on a bunch of the guns in this category, including both of the ones you are considering. It seems like they did a pretty good test of them:

http://www.gunsandammo.com/handguns/...-9mm-shootout/

The more I read about the taurus line the more I am impressed by them. I have a PT111 3rd edition of the gen 1 models and just put a 100 rounds through it two days ago with no problems. Plus if there is a light strike you just pull the trigger again, no need to eject. Having said that I am in your same boat and looking for something a tad smaller and am going for the glock 43. There is a 1/10 of an inch difference between my PT111 and the Glock, which sounds like nothing until you hold them side by side and you realize just a few mm makes a big difference. I have been seeing more and more guys at the range with the 709. Seems to be getting pretty popular as a carry gun. I bet if it said 'glock' or 'sig' and cost $200 more than it does the 709 would be the most popular gun out there in this category.

[georgiacatweazle]

adambomb, you're right about a few 16th's making a big difference. my full size glock carry's almost the same as my 'sub compact' sig. glock is thinner than the sig and about 3/4" taller i guess.
the 740 i owned before was 100% reliable. sold it and got the sig.
the taurus carried much better. didn't want to deal with having 9mm and 40 in my inventory.
a slimmer pistol will give me more options, such as pocket carry, something the xds can do and sig cannot.
i've not carried the sig in about 2-3 months, i've carried my little 380 bodyguard instead.

[skizzums]

I had the bodygaud for some time, couldn't get used to he trigger, not sure why they couldn't math it to the shield's very nice trigger.

anyone interested in the new Taurus "slim" 9mm, or even Taurus' itty bitty 380 and of course the pt111 or 140/45 etc, should know there is a lot of misinformation on most of the threads, almost always see stating that posters state that the "slim"709/740 are great guns, but that long DAO trigger pull is horrible. apparently the folks that say this have never shot them, as they all have the SA/DA striker trigger. If you just picked one up at the LGS you would not know this and just be feeling the DA for second-strike. As far as I know, the ONLY pocket sized Taurus with a hidden hammer or DAO is the TCP, and even the TCP is one of the best DAO's out there excluding Sig's. But I even hear 90% of the clerks tell customers that the 709 and pt111 are DAO because they don't know to cock it first. I know it's not a big deal, just want to help the issue to get clarified for anyone who comes across the thread. Because if I hear the term DAO, I am usally going to pass on whateer particular gun I am looking at. I suffered the kel-tec's, bodyguard, sccy's(the worst of the bumch) and the last gen of Ruger's LCP's(the new striker LCP is freaking butter!!! GREAT JOB RUGER!!), and all of them had the absolute worst trigger pulls I have ever attempted to use. The exception is the Sig's DAO(some) and the TCP is "okay".....

here is a quick demonstration of the Taurus sa/da which I found to be pretty awesome since I wasn't expecting it in the first place:
CLICK TO PLAY


the cons to the system, as far as I am concerned, are that if your put too much of the pad of your finger-tip past the middle-line of trigger, I can get a little bite between the frame and trigger. And that if you don't really focus on practicing from reset, short-stroking can be common. but once I got used to it, I really enjoy it. it's not a CZ trigger or anything, but for a cheap pistol of diminutive size, it's very nice and is a pretty clever design.

I understand the OP has already considered this firearm and I understand that it doesn't seem to be what he is looking for, but just wanted to share since I am (obviously) a pretty big fn of it.

[georgiacatweazle]

trigger wise, not too concerned over them, i think every range trip i'm shooting striker (glock) or revolver, or DAO sig, 1911. mostly shooting 2 pistols per trip. tend to not be thinking about what the trigger is doing. so as to what pistol has what trigger isn't an issue for me. at some point it goes back far enough and a bang happens :-) obviously some pistols are insanely heavy.
i'm aiming for getting a slight size reduction on the existing sig 250. the sig gives me mostly under 2" easy groups at 7 yards, on a good day 1 and change.

i've had a few issues along the way with taurus triggers namely my 740. it would pull and pull and pull until i had to release it and pull it again. could never get it to shoot straight. my little bodyguard gets 1 1/2 inch groups with it 8+ pound trigger.

[jmhyer]

To me, the deciding factor would be how important the thumb safety is. To my knowledge the Taurus is not available without it. The XDs isn't available with it. (It has the grip safety.)

As I don't care for thumb safeties, the clear choice for me would be the XDs.

[skizzums]

i have time to go through this subject with a fine comb, and heck, i'll learn some things as well. Before i start a discussion about "what really is the best "single-stack" 9mm CCW piece, it's not really up for debate. It's undeniable that the lightest, shortest from end-to-end and from top to bottom, only .1 thicker than the thinnest(and can be helped with a grip change),, nite sights, ambi contols....ony downer is even though it has a 1911 type trigger, it runs at a god-awful 7freakin #'s....oh yeah, and it's only a meager 800$ unless you want a nice model that is actually expensive. the sig p238. so lets discuss single-stack 9's for us more, let's say "frugal" gun-buyers.


I wonder why the shield not on your list? I would believe it to be smaller than the XDs, single stack, optional safety and a pretty crisp trigger.
Overall Length: 6.1"
.Frame Width: .95"
.Overall Height: 4.6"
.Weight: 19.0 oz
I can tell you why it wouldn't be on MY list, well not anymore anyhow, because the PT is almost identical dimensions for over 100$ less and 5 more rounds. If my Taurus proved glitchy or unreliable, I would probably still ride with a shield, I do miss the trigger a tiny bit and its curves were very comfortable for carry. Over the last four years they were very difficult to find at less than 399$ because they were hugely popular, now that the field has opened up, they sit at a somewhat decent value of 350$...still though, I think for what it is, they should knock off another 50$, it's no better than the competition anymore, except MAYBE a better finish than some.

The Ruger LC9s is a HUGE improvement over the old ones if you have a previous prejudice against it like I did. I hated that pistol(standard LC9 DAO) until the "s" line came out, and now it's very tempting. The new trigger is really awesome and made it a very usable pistol. The sights are great and find your eyes very naturally, they are a tiny bit protruding though, compared to others in the same size. you didn't say what you preferred in terms of safety's, I use manual safeties on my carry guns, so that's another point for the Ruger in my book. Fair priced at $325 retail, but see occasional sales putting them down to 300$ even. You see the dimensions up top for the Shield? You can pretty much refer to those for this pistol as well, but this wins with the couple ounces of lighter weight. and .1 shorter in height and length and .05 less in grip width. so, if it fits your hands and is comfortable, this appers to beat th shield in all aspects for concealment purposes, if only very slightly, but also has a better price tag to boot.

The Taurus 709 "Slim", to me it sounds a little deceiving, although it's a fantastic value and hear great reports on how comfortable it is to carry, it's not any smaller than any other 9mm single.
Weight 18.5 ounces
Barrel length 3.28 inches
Overall Height 4.53 inches
Overall Length 6.25 inches
Slide Thickness 0.95 inch
Frame Thickness 0.96
It's heavier, taller, longer and wider than the LC9s and only beats the Shield by an unnoticeable 1/2 oz weight difference. But it's still in the samle ball park dimensionally a the other singles and is the best priced at about 100$ less or more than the other single-stack CC 9's. so if it fits, may as well keep that Benjamin

The Taurus PT111 G2, I know it's been dicussed already, just want to throw the figures in the mix even though this is NO a single-stack. This is the tallest of them all and a couple ounces more than the previous mentioned runners. I have already talked about how I feel about the features and how I feel about the size differences, it is unfortunate that they don't have a flush magazine for the G2, because if they did, it would put it at the same height as the single-stackers, and I do understand how important even a half an inch can be on the grip height when going for deep conceal. The G2 is the best priced at a pretty sweet 200$.
Weight with Empty Magazine 21.3 oz.
Overall Height 5.1"
Overall Length 6.24"
Grip Thickness 1.1"
Frame Width 0.97"
Slide Width 0.99"


so, the XDs....well it may win the beauty pageant of the single-stacks, well as long as it was for "plus-size" only models. It has about 5 ounces on the other "singles" and about a 1/3of an inch longer. So if the focus of the discussion is the strictly comparing the viability of the different "single-stacks" for conceal carry, I think that really puts this one out, but if the weight and slide length are of little importance than cool.....this thing does have some neat furniture with lots of grippy surface area, a grip safety and trigger safety. Looks to be a comfy pistol to hold with some great contours, and I like the button mag release. It does have one win under it's belt with a .1" sorter height with flush magazine and comes with an "extended magazine if you want 1 more round with a 5" height. Width is same as all the others. In terms of value, well let just say it's not for me. But your paying for the "fibe-optic" front sights with a steel rear dove, the grip safety, the ambi-mag release and I belive they come with changeable backstraps. for me, none of that is impotant except for the sights and it looks like a comfy grip angle, but these may be important to you. For me, I would refer to buy the shield and add a front sight of my liking and still be saving a couple hundred dollars. Not to mention this has, what I think to be, the heaviest trigger of them all at 6.5#'s. The base model still runs near 500$ retail and that doesn't include backstraps or extended magazines.

Weight 23 ozs.
Height 4.4" w/ Compact Mag, 5" w/ Mid-Mag X-Tension™
Length 6.3"
Grip Width .9"

Line all these guns up with price tags flipped up.....and still talking about which gun is the best CARRY pistol, I think the Ruger LC9s PRO takes the blue ribbon(pro has no external safety, making it even more slim and shedding another .4oz off the base LC9s). It is the shortest in height and length, just as thin as the other thinnest all-around at .9 , has a sweet 4.8# crisp trigger an adjustable carbon steel sights. not the prettiest, but it's reliable and SIMPLE. I would personally choose the standard LC9s for a manual safety, my personal choice. LC9s and LC9s PRO have the same price at around 320-325$ retail, but just happens to be on sale at a few places right now for $300-$309 online. Is it worth the extra $50-$60 over the 709 "Slim"??? I can't say, neither really boasts too much over the other, I like the steel sights and the trigger on the Ruger, and I like that they did away with the chamber flag for a viewing port and it has a steel trigger unlike Taurus', but I really hate the magazine disconnect stuff and having to use the stupid dummy blocks for field strip, but the consensus is the Ruger is rugged, uber reliable, simple and small. The 709 on the other hand, saves you 50$, but you lose some small features like steel sights and a steel trigger and the option for a safety or not, no mag disconnect stuff thank goodness and a trigger pull only .2# heavier than the Ruger. I hear the 709 only comes with one mag, as does the Ruger, but hear there are almost zero mags available even from the Taurus factory.......so that's a tough spot, I would really want at least two mags in case one broke not to mention reloads. I also like that the Ruger has a pinky support available for like 9 bucks as I have never been great wit a 3 finger with my long fingers.

but these are just a ew of many, you hve th new single-stack Glock(which is laughably over-priced and huge in comparison to these). Another serious gun that shouldn't be over-looked is the Beretta NANO, it weighs in at 17 oz, 4.2" height and a winning short length of 5 and a half inches, making the NANO the lightest and smallest of them all, and is one of few that actually supplies multiple mags with it's base model. slightly heavy trigger with a 5.8# pull that is pretty long but smooth and I hear very little complaint about it. but the nano is the only one that is truly a snag-free design and very attractive IMO, even the de-ccker is flush fit in frame along with everything else, neat gun, I am just unfamiliar with it, but may be exactly what your looking for and it gets better because you can find them regularly for under 280-300$ putting them in the middle of your 709 and the Ruger. the Nano also has full adjustable sights, modular grip panels are interchangeable and it's ambi. aftermarket support is available and it comes with an 8 round "HD" mag along with the 7...you may wann check this one out.

So that' all I can say, well actually I could keep talking but I doubt anyone cares to listen. None of these guns make me wanna jump off my "semi-double stack" G2 wagon, but if I had to buy one of the above, it'd be the Ruger first, the Shield and 709 "Slim" I would have to do some range time with to decide. I already know the Shield is a very accurate pistol and have always loved it's smooth lines, grip areas and rounded edges, it's a quality weapon for sure that has a reputation second to none for CCW and a ton of aftermarket stuff if your so inclined for "uprades". I have never actually fired the 709, but I would HAVE to know I could at least get another mag before I purchased, and I would buy into it knowing it has literally NO aftermarket support if you like lasers/trit sights etc.

[O4L]

⬆⬆⬆The best single stack 9mm CCW piece is the P238?

What!? :-D

[skizzums]

I am speaking ONLY in terms of size and weight. not objectively, just "carriability" and "concealment". the OP is looking for smaller, and I can find none that are, even though it has a .1 thicker grip, it is overall the smallest and absolutely the lightest I can find.

if you know of a shorter/lighter/thinner single-stack nine, I am all ears. I was just using google-fu and came up with that. I don't even know what the P238 is, I have no opinion on it except that it seems grossly over-priced and the fun in a 1911 type trigger should be a light and smooth trigger, not 7-8# of pull. it's purdy though

[georgiacatweazle]

biggest problem for the 709 is the mags, only 2 places online i think have them for $40. need really 3 for a carry pistol. i had two ship with my bodyguard and one was a failure, so for a week i had ONE mag. so having just one mag with a pistol isn't good. my 740, i got really mad at because of the 6-7 months wait time for mags, yup carried it with ONE mag and a cell phone holder with ammo packed in it :-/

reason for looking for single stacks is width, need to pocket carry from time to time and a 1.1" wide double ain't gonna work.

shield is decent, friend at work has one, don't like the looks much.
could get the 709 for $229 new, but again, track down mags or use hi-points.
xds i can get new for $375 and four mags. one of those mags is a 9 round so good for backup mag. it also fits my hand decently. if i have any issues with it, i can pickup a 709 and A/B test it.

[railroader]

I have an xds in 45. It is a nice gun but the trigger is heavy, probably around 7lbs. I also have a couple of kahrs, a cm9 and a cw45. I like the triggers on the kahrs better. Even though the trigger pull is longer it is very smooth and about 2lbs. lighter. The cm9 is smaller than a Xds and it is quite a bit lighter. The kahrs are around $350 online.

[marine6680]

The grip on the XDs always seemed like it would be uncomfortable for carry... But I have no direct experience with it to know that is true. Other than that, it was high on my potential buy list.

The extra mags deal doesn't hurt.

The 709 looks like a good pistol, nice and slim. My knowledge of it is limited to what I read online, which has been positive. My only concern would be any additional safeties it may have. I can't recall, but doesn't it have a mag safety and a thumb safety?


When I was looking at single stacks, I ended up with a S&W Shield 9mm w/o safety... To me, it was the most comfortable, and had the action type I wanted with a decent trigger.

I looked at so many different single stacks before picking, that all the info was almost just mush in my head.

[georgiacatweazle]

Well I got the XDS 9mm. $375 no tax, no shipping, no FFL charged :-)
at the range today, final groupings were about 1 inch thumb size.
shoots really well.
plus i have two free mags on the way via the rebate at springfield.

now just to sell my Sig 250 to pay myself back :-)

[Mrgunsngear]

solid choice

[jmhyer]

+1 Congrats and enjoy.