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Old September 25, 2010, 06:12 PM   #1
jephthai
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What is Hunting?

I have a coworker who insists that "stand hunting" is not really hunting, because it does not involve pursuit. He contends that sitting in one spot and waiting for your animal to show up doesn't count. Fortunately for him, the various dictionaries (we checked Oxford, Webster's, and the American Heritage dictionaries) seem to indicate that pursuit or chase is a necessary component.

I tried arguing that much work and skill goes into the process leading up to the "waiting", but was unable to convince him. He considers it unsportsmanlike to call it hunting, preferring to call it "gathering" (or "merely killing").

What do you think? Is hunting from a blind or stand really hunting? I want to think so -- can you help me defend it when discussing it with my coworker?

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Old September 25, 2010, 06:26 PM   #2
aarondhgraham
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I'm sorta with your friend here,,,

I argue with my nephew about this all the time,,,
I call him a harvester rather than a hunter,

He owns the property he sets camp on,,,
Hr baits the place all year round,,,
He uses game cameras.

He picks the animal he wants to take,,,
Long before he tows his camper trailer to the property.

He climbs into one of his several camouflaged tree stands,,,
He waits until the animal he has chosen walks by,,,
Then shoots it and has the meat processed.

I can't call him a "hunter",,,
He's a very successful harvester.

Nothing wrong with it at all,,,
It's simply a matter of semantics,,,
But I do hate it when he brags about his hunting skills.

.
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Old September 25, 2010, 06:43 PM   #3
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I have to agree with aarondhgraham. To me it's definitely more harvesting than hunting - especially if the stand area has been baited.
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Old September 25, 2010, 06:51 PM   #4
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Sorry, you seem to be going down in flames. I'm siding with your buddy too.
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Old September 25, 2010, 06:51 PM   #5
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G'day. If you and 250 other armed "friends" all lined up with 30 feet between each one and walked through a Forrest with the intention of taking any game that you came across, would that be hunting?
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Old September 25, 2010, 06:52 PM   #6
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Stand HUNTING, spot and stalk HUNTING,,deer drive HUNTING,, all of it is hunting. Stand hunting requires a lot of self disipline, spot and stalk hunting requires the skill to find then sneak up on the animal to shoot, and deer drives require a safe stragety to anticipate where they will be ahead of time. Some people simply cannot sit in one place and be quiet and not move much for hours on end. Some people enjoy walking around looking for an animal to put a sneak on, whatever, it all requires something. I have done, and do all of the above, and I enjoy all of the forms of hunting. One is not better than the other. If you are in a good spot, stand hunting wil result in seeing more game than the other two types if you are up in a tree stand in my area, sometimes seeing them and getting a good shot are two different things. It is all int he eye of the beholder.
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Old September 25, 2010, 06:56 PM   #7
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IMO, "hunting" is to be out there, actively pursuing the game and not just sitting and waiting in a stand, especially over any bait. Where's the sport in that? Seems more like ambushing tht any sporting style of hunting.
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Old September 25, 2010, 07:00 PM   #8
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Dog Use

Does the use of dog take the hunting out of hunting? Your dog is finding the game, in fact, you wouldn't even know it was there if you didn't have a dog.
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Old September 25, 2010, 07:02 PM   #9
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I have to admit I had to consider this one for a minute but I do agree with aarondhgrahm and JWT. I always disliked the whole bait and watch thing. I had to think about the tree stand or blind method and by logic I guess it's the same basic idea. It may be a skill but it's actually harvesting, I didn't say it's wrong I'm considering a ground blind myself.But No Bait
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Old September 25, 2010, 07:24 PM   #10
Bud Helms
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Even during a stalk, you need occasionally to stop and listen ... sometimes for what seems like a long time. On a stalk, a whitetail may come on you. Is that not a hunted deer because you didn't sneak up on him? Because you didn't pursue him and find him looking the other way?

Some of the same skills are required to stand or sit in one place and wait that are used to hunt on the move. As a matter of experience, it is often more difficult to keep your place and wait and NOT walk around.

If you hunt long enough, you will eventually surprise a whitetail where he stands while you are on the move. Likely his curiosity is more powerful that his urge to flee that particular time. And you will wonder how it happened. Then again, you may never know he watched you go by.

Still hunting, as it is called, was developed long before we had the leisure time to speculate on the ethics of different ways to hunt. Still hunting is used to efficiently preserve the hunter's energy while bringing home the meat food. The hunter that knows where the prey will be is a knowledgeable hunter, a successful hunter. He walks straight to where his "harvest" is, takes his game and brings the food home.

Only modern man made it a sport. Then modern man assumed the responsibility to manage the game and conserve it as a resource. Looking for ways to make it more sporting is fine. Stand hunting is a version of still hunting brought to us by bow hunters. Techniques developed by bow hunters and duck hunters decades ago made hunting easier for us gun hunters: camo clothing, blind hunting, decoys, food plots, deer stands, scent masking. You get closer shots and insure fewer wounded animals. Bow hunters need to let the game get closer. You sure can't run 'em down, can you?

A sport, yes. But to make it more sporting by making it more difficult would be to the detriment of the game. And that's where your responsibility lies as an ethical hunter.
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Old September 25, 2010, 07:24 PM   #11
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OK, well, a duck blind I sit and wait... What's so different??? Do I have to strap a jet pack on my back and fly after the dux er geese to be hunting them??? I don't think so. It's all hunt'n ta me. If he enjoys chase'n everything out of the country by stalking on foot then go ahead, but NOT on my land. You will go to the shooting house and back on said trail. There is no wondering around on or place during hunt'n season. If'n you do you wont EVER see a deer.

Just look yer buddy in the eye and tell him, "different strokes fer different folks."
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Old September 25, 2010, 07:32 PM   #12
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As far as food plots or "bait" goes, what is the difference in shooting a deer that is busy chowing down on fallen persimmons from a tree in the wild and one that is grazing on a food plot you planted full of black-eyed peas? The fact that you planted the food plot and the persimmon tree grew there by accident?

I can't work that one out. Even an intentionally spilled bag of apples that are starting to turn aromatic ... if it is illegal in your state, then don't, but if it's legal, I don't see the problem.

'Just an opinion on this point, I guess. And opinions vary.
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Old September 25, 2010, 07:37 PM   #13
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To die hard hunters here in big game country, there is two types of taking game. The harvest, is game spotted from a motor vechile and stocked, shot in a farmers field during winter, any game shot from a stand, or over a food plot. The true purist hunter will not spot an animal from a vechile and wont even load a gun till 1/2 mile from camp. No calling, bait, attractants, or help from another hunter. No electronics of any kind. This includes duck hunting as well. Most purist hunters of ducks here simply stalk potholes and steams. For me stand hunting is strickly harvesting. Dont get me wrong sometimes a harvest is appropriate, I just dont call it hunting.
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Old September 25, 2010, 07:47 PM   #14
roy reali
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re:30-30remchester

Quote:
No calling, bait, attractants, or help from another hunter. No electronics of any kind. This includes duck hunting as well.
May I ask why not?

Doesn't using a gun at all give a human an unfair advantage?
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Old September 25, 2010, 07:48 PM   #15
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Wow... that's a lot of votes on my coworker's side. It doesn't bother me that much -- except that it seems to exclude a lot of people from legitimately "hunting." I'll be going on my first deer hunt next week with another friend. I'm not sure what "kind" of hunting I'll be engaging in, but I suspect it's more likely to be a slightly less pursuit-ish type.

My coworker's main issue is people who nail a stand to a tree and go to the same spot in the woods every year and get a deer. Is "harvesting" still a noble means by which to feed the family?

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Old September 25, 2010, 07:58 PM   #16
jephthai
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Quote:
A sport, yes. But to make it more sporting by making it more difficult would be to the detriment of the game. And that's where your responsibility lies as an ethical hunter.
Bud, that's a fascinating response. You're almost saying that it's intrinsically more ethical not to pursue (I suppose unless you're skilled enough at pursuit to achieve an equivalently ethical kill).

I had not thought about the bow-hunting and conservation factors driving the shift to stand hunting. I do think most of the hunters I've known have been stand hunters, and it sure seemed like they put a tremendous amount of time, effort, and knowledge into the process. Somehow, that seemed to validate the approach sufficiently in my eyes.

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Old September 25, 2010, 07:58 PM   #17
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I was going to get all kinds of opinionated but ...

Then realized that my nature of being thrifty has an impact on how I hunt. A gun, a knife, something orange, and an area to hunt, stalk, pursue, in.

Everything else, to me, is just so much hoopla and marketing.

Then again, I would love to sit in a stand and "hunt' wild hogs.
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Old September 25, 2010, 08:04 PM   #18
psychobily
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Well I reckon my climbing stand usage is considered hunting to you 30-30remchester, as I, like you were saying about Duck hunters stalking pot holes and streams, I look fer rub and scrape lines. Find me a good tree and get up 40', rattle and grunt... lol
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Old September 25, 2010, 08:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
hunt (hnt)
v. hunt·ed, hunt·ing, hunts
v.tr.
1. To pursue (game) for food or sport.
2. To search through (an area) for prey: hunted the ridges.
3. To make use of (hounds, for example) in pursuing game.
4. To pursue intensively so as to capture or kill: hunted down the escaped convict.
5. To seek out; search for.
6. To drive out forcibly, especially by harassing; chase away: hunted the newcomers out of town.
v.intr.
1. To pursue game.
2. To make a search; seek.
3. Aerospace
a. To yaw back and forth about a flight path, as if seeking a new direction or another angle of attack. Used of an aircraft, rocket, or space vehicle.
b. To rotate up and down or back and forth without being deflected by the pilot. Used of a control surface or a rocket motor in gimbals.
4. Engineering
a. To oscillate about a selected value. Used of a machine, instrument, or system.
b. To swing back and forth; oscillate. Used of an indicator on a display or instrument panel.
n.
1. The act or sport of hunting: an enthusiast for the hunt.
2.
a. A hunting expedition or outing, usually with horses and hounds.
b. Those taking part in such an expedition or outing.
3. A diligent search or pursuit: on a hunt for cheap gas.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hunt
Harvesting a deer, is simply making a kill and then processing it. To define hunting as mere persuit, is foolish. Using the latest technology to kill an animal has been called hunting since the dawn of man when the first cave man sharpened a stick and called it a spear. Using horses and dogs to search for game is hunting; and, so is using a four wheel 4X4 motorcycle to cover lots of ground in the back country in search of game. What's the difference between using a high power rifle to kill a deer and using a blind, decoy, camera or tree stand?

Some of you make it seem like unless you knap flint to make a knife, stalk your game in a loincloth, and then jump your quarry and slit itw throat with your flint knife, then you aren't a true hunter.

jep - your co-worker is a half wit who wouldn't recognize a real hunter if one snuck up on him and kicked him in the buttocks. Whenever I read a post like some of those previously posted, I LMAO!!

When I see one of you experts in the Selway or Bob Marshal wilderness or over in the Owyhees on foot or horseback 100 miles from the nearest civilization, then maybe you'll deserve some respect. Until then, don't tell me what rules define a hunter.

Here are some real hunters using the latest technology...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Cowboys-Ropinggraywolf.jpg (36.4 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg Hunting-Deer.jpg (51.0 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg hounds2.jpg (105.7 KB, 28 views)

Last edited by Big Bill; September 25, 2010 at 10:31 PM.
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Old September 25, 2010, 08:10 PM   #20
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I say let him call it what he will. Opinions are like butts everybodys got one.
Harvesting,Killin,Hunting on a good day the result is the same. Its all good at the dinner table
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Old September 25, 2010, 08:13 PM   #21
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HERE HERE! ^^^^ I like the way you think BigBill!!!!

Helen's Pics 003.jpg
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Old September 25, 2010, 09:02 PM   #22
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My routine for opening morning is usually about getting out before light to a pre-selected spot.I have usually scouted it,and sometimes comfort,camo,field of fire enhanced it.It might be as simple as a fence corner choked with tumbleweed.Sitting down on a cactus is not useful,nor is moving around making noise.
I spend my time shivering for the arrival of the sun's warmth,and all my senses are hunting.
I think most of the predator animals on earth spend some of their time this way.
Maybe mid morning my butt is tired and I move.Sometimes I use defilade terrain(antelope season),Sometimes I move slow,stop and observe a lot.

Frankly.I often mapstudy and try to predict the effects of the hordes of hunters moving into the game country with 4wds,ATVs,etc and the masses headed into the woods.I try to use them to my advantage.
I wish I could keep a pet burro.
But,you know,we could compare this to fishing.
Is a kid with his Grandpa sitting by a stockpond or city park lake with a cane pole fishing?.Does it matter if Grandpa stocked bluegills?
Is a vacationer in Colorado catching rainbows from a mountain lake fishing?How long ago did those fish get dumped out of the hatchery truck?
Or is it more like fishing if we use a 190 HP bassboat and 4 footlockers of tackle?
How does tho Orvisite with his split bamboo and black gnat feel about a walleye fisherman bouncing a crawler on the bottom?
Are you going to tell me that the legendary Toad Smith ,with his bucket of chicken and box of Oreos ,waiting for a blue or shovelhead cat to take the slack out of his line wasn't fishing?
Or,is taking the cast net to get something for the low country gravy tonight fishing"
Planted birds are not quite hunting,but the dogs are the point.A bird dog might not get enough wild birds.they get so happy when they can do their job!
I don't think just everything is OK.I have seen pronghorn hunters do the high speed pickup jump and blaze routine.I don't like the drive around and shoot over the hood guys either(and it illegal in Colorado)
I do support the guy with bad legs driving to his stand and sitting in a lawn chair or wheel chair.
I also think we owe the game a clean,quick end.
Can I kill an elk with my PA63 9x18 Makarov?I'll be so cool if I do!! To a point,it is a reasonable pursuit,but at some point it is an irresponsible stunt.

And,IMO,if the crosshairs are waving,your breathing too hard,the wind is blowing,he won't stop walking,its just too darn far,"poke and hope
maybe you'll hit him" is too much risk.I don't take the shot.

I had a local "great white hunter" that I was sharing a ranch with provide an example.We agreed,he had one part of the ranch,we had another.I was watching the herd,a little too far to shoot,maybe 800,900 yds.
Here comes great white,into my area.He shot 17 times,hit his animal 5 times around the edges.he stung a doe that escaped as colatteral damage.
He was all smiles and proud of the horns on his big buck,leg shot,butt shot,gut shot.
And,of course,he rudely ruined my chances.
I just do not have it in me to agree to"Everything legal is right"

Read Robert Ruark's "The Old Man and the Boy",then "Use enough Gun",anything by Ruark,if you want to understand.

Last edited by HiBC; September 25, 2010 at 10:46 PM.
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Old September 25, 2010, 09:30 PM   #23
crghss
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ReallY? C'mon really?

If you purchase a hunting license, DO WHAT YOU LIKE...............why would you care what some numbnuts thinks!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I HUNT!!!!!!!!! Period!!!!!!! I decide what, where, when I hunt. I decide I"M HUNTING.
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Old September 25, 2010, 09:44 PM   #24
ZeroJunk
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Hunting is whatever legal manner for taking game a hunter chooses to use.

If you chose to make it more difficult than it has to be for personal satisfaction, that's fine.

If you want to belittle those who do it differently, that's not so fine.
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Old September 25, 2010, 10:35 PM   #25
jeepstrapped
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Quote:
Some of you make it seem like unless you knap flint to make a knife, stalk your game in a loincloth, and then jump your quarry and slit itw throat with your flint knife, then you aren't a true hunter.
One of the crazy family stories is that my great uncle jumped out of a tree onto a deer and killed it with his knife.
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