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Old June 25, 2013, 09:00 AM   #51
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Well, if you want to follow that thought guns ARE evil. (of course it's people, not guns, which are just tools, but still...). In today's society guns are used in wars to kill, by bad guys to threaten and/or kill and by good guys to protect themselves which often leads to kill of a bad guy. And then there is a fairly small group of people who are using guns purely for the fun of hitting the center of the paper and I am one of them.
Will I draw the gun if I am in real danger? Most likely! But if I have to take human's life with it, afterwards it will be reminding me about it all the time. So, I wouldn't want that gun... Perhaps it's a strange philosophy, I am not preaching it. Just explaining my position in relation of OP question about the value of the gun.
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Old June 25, 2013, 09:59 AM   #52
Grant D
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Had a truck stolen years ago that had a handgun in the door pocket.Got the truck back the next day, but the handgun was gone.

The police called me about a year later telling me to come and pick up the hand gun. When I got there they sais it had been used in a robbery,and the case was closed now. They handed it back to me clean and no marks on it, and it even had a full magazine and a round in the chamber!!
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Old June 25, 2013, 10:10 AM   #53
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another thing to think about... were there finger prints on the gun ??? even if they were pulled, does a finger printing kit actually remove the finger prints, if not, maybe wiping down & oiling up a gun, may not be an option on any case that went to trial???

I'd think it in best interest to keep all evidence in as collected shape... if you went to trial, & were asked if a particular gun was yours, & it was all rusty, or if the gun had rusted beyond function, & in a murder trial, the gun goes into court in a "non firing" condition, a sharp lawyer may get someone off because the gun couldn't have killed someone, if it were rusted shut...

I'm good friends with several LEO's, & while the guns are tools, very few cops are enthusiasts, so one who is not an enthusiast reading this thread is pretty unlikely... enthusiasts could understand the value of a particular weapon... cops who are not enthusiasts are not likely to care about any collectability of some old steel gun, that got all crusty, or got extra numbers engraved in it... if the gun were a new M&P or Glock, it wouldn't have rusted like that old piece of crab... 1911, & as a tool, extra numbers don't effect the usefulness or effectiveness of their tools
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Old June 25, 2013, 10:39 AM   #54
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Just like good evidence handling practice, consider marking your OWN guns in a less than obvious spot with your initials and something like date of birth. Unless your name is "Steve Watson" or "Sam Wellington"..

Also, if the gun has serial numbers, frame numbers, cyl numbers, other markings that differ, record them all. If it's ever stolen, when it gets entered into NCIC as a stolen gun, it might not be the ser# that they enter or that gets run later when found. If you are able to report all the various numbers, and your OAN (Owner Applied Number - could be letters and/or numbers) and all those numbers are entered, it's more likely to get a hit if run later. Zat make sense? Say your gun's stolen today and they enter your serial number (only) as stolen. A year from now, a beat cop runs the frame number (different from the ser#). If that frame number wasn't entered initially, the gun won't return as stolen.

Those of you who you think every LEO in the universe is out to get you and steal your guns, feel free to disregard the above suggestions.


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Old June 25, 2013, 10:49 AM   #55
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I had a car break in about 20 years ago, items taken were some tools, a baby car seat and a 25 cal Raven semi auto. the police asked me for the serial number of the gun which I had. about a year later the police called me and said they recovered the gun and I could come a pick it up. it had a couple of scratches were the gang banger kicked it under the car but otherwise in good shape. never thought I would get it back, I guess it pays to keep records.
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Old June 25, 2013, 12:13 PM   #56
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I agree with Sgt. Lumpy about recording gun information. This is especially true for German Lugers and P.38's, where many guns can have the same serial number, and registration/sales records often show only the number, not the suffix, maker or date. If a Luger seized in a crime has that number, the legal owner(s) of every Luger with that serial number will be questioned.

And that often doesn't help the innocent person. During the investigation of the so-called "beltway sniper", a MD county police force seized every .223/5.56"assault rifle" in their files (such guns had to be registered at sale) for "investigation". In cases where the police found a woman at the home and the gun belonged to her husband (or SO), they made every effort to get her to surrender the weapon*; a surprising number did so with unknown results when the man came home and found his wife/SO had turned his gun over to the police for destruction.

*Community property state.

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Old June 25, 2013, 05:26 PM   #57
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Another similar was the "SON OF SAM" serial killer investigation. Every .44 bulldog in NYC was tested, than the regon, then the state, then Jersey... They went beyond the bulldogs and tested other brands as well. Because the investigation was limited to one model of one manufacture it was a fairly easy task. Though it made me nervous to see the extent of the firearms record keeping.
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Old June 25, 2013, 07:00 PM   #58
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guns confiscated by police

I had a pistol removed from my house once by police. Long story short after court date and exonerated, I asked for it back. Jumped through a few hoops, + letter from judge and it was returned. Was still in good shape, no marks and still have 15 years later.
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Old June 27, 2013, 12:50 PM   #59
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As a side note, I wonder how it ever got to be okay to damage someone's property??? If the manufacturer, model and serial number is enough for the ATF to track it from manufacture through retail purchase, it should be plenty for ANY investigating agency.
Its been done that way for a long time. Perry Mason's LT Tragg (or was it Trask?) was often asked on the stand to ID a gun, and always pointed out how it "had his mark" on it.

The reason has been well explained by other posts. Not every police dept does it, but most do. Electric engraving pencils have just made it easy for them to mark the guns in what we consider defacing ways.

I'd like to point out, that, while we always think of it as our property, that they are holding, they don't see it that way. It is evidence. ITs not our property when its evidence. We have a legal claim after it is no longer evidence, but its not ours until we get it back.

Other items are not treated the same was as firearms, when it comes to their return. Books, art, electronics, cars, etc, they have no issues with returning them after they are no longer evidence. Many individual officers (including officers of the court, not just uniformed officers) tend strongly to disapproving of returning firearms, and in some places it is even policy not to. This is, of course, because you "let" them get stolen in the first place, and might do so again. They don't want them getting back on the street. Your concerns about your property (and its condition) are low on their priority lists.

There are some depts. and officers that do things the way they ought to be done, but sadly, I think they are in the minority.
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Old June 27, 2013, 04:18 PM   #60
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As always, when police get on a pedestal, and decide whether a gun belonging to someone else should get "marked", destroyed, or delayed, or refused to be returned, they have forgotten who they work for, or how to "protect and serve". If they started losing their jobs over that, it would change.
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Old June 27, 2013, 06:01 PM   #61
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Quote:
they have forgotten who they work for
I believe there's no LEO in the country who hasn't forgotten that they've pledged to lay down their life, even for people who feel it necessary to encourage hate and distrust of them.


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Old June 27, 2013, 08:29 PM   #62
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guns confiscated by police

What Sgt. Lumpy said. Though I doubt he meant to say what he said ;-)

Like an earlier poster said, I just wish they would all remember who they work for. Some do and others don't. I like the like-able ones and trust the ones that are trustworthy.

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Old June 28, 2013, 08:32 PM   #63
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Sgt Lumpy, you might not have MET the lesser police officers out there, but I have even met some that didn't think they could even shoot someone in self defense. They were out there, carrying a gun, getting a paycheck, and had developed a mental state that precluded a most serious part of the job. They realized that they might DIE if they didn't shoot in a serious situation, but they seemed to have lost sight of the fact that OTHER people's lives depended on them, and that it was a part of the JOB to be prepared to use the gun if necessary. Some other officers on the job simply HATE guns; those "gun hating cops" comprised SOME of the officers that stated they might not use their guns, but not all of them. The "gun haters" were also some of the worst shots on their departments (so much for protecting the innocent). This stuff is so sad and off the wall, but it is real. I do not make this stuff up.
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