Bear Calibers

[Ozzieman]

For bear I would never choose a hand gun. No doubt you can take one with a 357 or 44 Mag but at what range and how much time do you have to pull it out of a holster if the bear is heading toward you at a full run.
I would pick a lever action in 45/70 with a good heavy bullet.

[HiBC]

A .357 sure beats nothing.With heavy,hardcast bullets..it might work.If that is the gun you have,and justifying another is tough,go with what you have.

While many black bears behave the way they "should" ,not all do.There are predatory black bears who will do their best to eat you.And those generally might not charge across 100 yds in six seconds.They stalk in,kind of slow,deceptive.And persistant.They won't go away.

I have never owned a Glock,,and I'm not a Glock fanboy,but a Glock 20,with a Lone Wolf barrel,so it can use cast bullets,in 10 mm might be a good choice.
With the Buffalo Bore over 200 gr hard cast bullets,about 1200 fps,its going to give good penetration.

I think it hold 21 rounds.That would be 21 opportunities to find central nervous system.
There are a few more double stack 10 mm's,the Witness,theRIA,I think Dan Wesson offers one.
But I don't own one.I'd probably carry my Ruger Lipsey special single action 44 spl. Bear better run and hide.
Since the chances of actually needing a bear handgun are remote,it comes down to "feeling better" carrying something.And,to fill that need,small,light,cheap,available,etc all play in..The one on your hip always beatsthe one in your imagination,that you wish you had.

And if/when,the moment of truth ever comes,well,then you can hardly have a handgun cartridge powerful enough.

[SansSouci]

Any handgun cartridge is a compromise when compared to the best; e.g., an 870 with slugs, Marlin Guide Gun, etc. The problem with big magnum handguns is recoil. I consider a 4" barreled revolver optimum. 6" is about the longest I'd consider. I have tried to rapidly fire a 6" .44 Mag revolver. I gave it a lot of time and effort. I've resigned myself that it was a one accurate shot revolver. The rest would leave the muzzle with a prayer. I know that they're some who can rapidly fire a .44 Mag, but they're the exception. It's logical fallacy to attempt to disprove a rule by citing an exception.

When we fish in backcountry of the Eastern Sierra where black bears are huge and numerous, our primary objective is avoidance at all cost except our lives. We will not tempt fate no matter how good the fishing. If a bear wanders into one of our spots, he gets it and we'll leave. If a bear is in a spot we want to fish, we'll go to another. It's the chance encounter on a trail where we might cross paths with a hungry or marauding bear that scares me, especially when my kids are with me.

I'm good with a GP-100 loaded with either six 180 grain Partitions or hard cast rounds and 2 speed loaders. The .357 Mag is the largest revolver with which I can accurately fire follow-up rounds. A 180 grain Partition or hard cast will break a bear's shoulders or penetrate its skull. But I'd prefer to not have to see this first hand.

I'd be good with a 1911A1 in .45 ACP or a .40 S&W loaded with bullets heavy for caliber.

The wise know that were you to cross paths with a beast that can kill you, whether you live or die is up to the beast. Therefore, it's wise to carry the best possible defense against beasts. The idea is to reverse the live or die outcome. In Alaska, guides protect their fishermen with 12 gauge slugs.

My opinion is it's child endangerment for anyone to take a child into bear habitat w/o ability to protect the child's life.

[Dufus]

A friend once shot an elk. It needed a finishing shot. He drew his 357 revolver loaded with a 158 gr bullet and aimed at the head from maybe 8 ft. The bullet never penetrated the head and ricocheted off. He than finished with the rifle that he took the initial shot with.

A few years ago, there was a lovers quarrel as the lady caught her man with another woman. She was mad and got out her gun, again another revolver in 357. He was turned sideways to her, had his arm raised pointing to her. She shot once hitting him in the armpit. The bullet never went deeper than the skin and angled downward exiting upon hitting the edge of the pelvis.

Is this what I want to shoot a bear with? I think not.

As far as speed loaders are concerned with a charging bear at close range, you might as well throw the gun at him and take off running.

[NoSecondBest]

A few years ago, there was a lovers quarrel as the lady caught her man with another woman. She was mad and got out her gun, again another revolver in 357. He was turned sideways to her, had his arm raised pointing to her. She shot once hitting him in the armpit. The bullet never went deeper than the skin and angled downward exiting upon hitting the edge of the pelvis.

And another urban myth is created.....nothing like well substantiated information. If it's on the internet it has to be true...right?

[BigJimP]

There are some big black bears in the carolina's......and while I think .357 mag ( 158gr is enough) it's a min in my mind on any bear up around 300 lbs...and not a great choice.

I've hunted and killed a lot of black bear in Montana (yrs ago ) but only with rifles ( .30-40 krag, .30-30 or .30-06 )../ and every one of those bears probably averaged 225 lbs....none over 275...( we hunted for meat -- not size )...but big black bears in Montana are 300.....and I understand you have some well over 400 lbs......if I wanted to take a black bear with a handgun I would not go below a .44 mag ....and in fact i'd probably go with .454 casull or .475 Linebaugh in a single action revolver...

[mete]

300 lbs - big ? Biggest in PA, about 900 lbs.
41mag , 44mag OK .
Read "Sixguns " by E Keith, Cowboys [he was one ] always carried because they rode mean horses and drove meaner cattle ! Carried big bore !

[Dufus]

And another urban myth is created.....nothing like well substantiated information. If it's on the internet it has to be true...right?

Well, for your information, Mr. Smart Guy, I was one of the investigators on that one. Typical response from someone that knows everything.

Take a course in human anatomy and study all the bones in the effected areas.

The bullet was deflected by his scapula, travel down the outside of the rib cage, then exited at the rim of the pelvis.

[pelican]

The black bears in eastern North Carolina range larger than the bears in the mountains of western North Carolina. The record is an 880 lb black bear killed in 1998.


www.ncbearfest.com/biggest-bears.html


The bears have extended their range in the state, and we occasionally see a bear or two in the Piedmont, and they have even been seen around Raleigh, and in Southern Pines and Pinehurst.

Would bear spray not be a poor choice for self defense, if the wind happened to be blowing in your direction? You might end up with a face full of bear spray yourself. Go with a revolver.

[Josh17]

How about .44 special? Would that be below, or above a .357 mag? Talking hard ball .44 special, I believe the box I have is 250 grain.

I see a lot of people say "44" but nothing about the .44 special.

[osbornk]

I was talking with the president of a local bear hunting club a while back and asked what gun they used to bear hunt. He said they used long barreled Ruger revolvers in either 357 or 44. He said he preferred the 357 because it had a greater range. they bear hunt with dogs and shoot the bears after the dogs tree them.

[Rangerrich99]

The bullet was deflected by his scapula, travel down the outside of the rib cage, then exited at the rim of the pelvis.

Murphy's Law must have been in full effect.

About 25 years ago one of my buddies from high school was shot by his girlfriend in the leg at close range with his Colt Python, disintegrating a little over 6 inches of his right femur.

My dad was the radiologist on duty at the ER when my buddy was brought in, so I saw both the before and the after X-rays of his leg. The before pic showed nearly complete disintegration of the bone from about 3 inches below the hip with no pieces of bone larger than 3/4 of an inch. It's been a long time but I don't remember seeing more than a dozen bone chips in that pic. The rest of the bone was just not in the X-ray.

Unfortunately, I don't recall the make/model of the ammo or its declared weight, but my buddy wasn't a rich guy, so I'm guessing he had something similar to Mag-Tech soft points in that gun.

Oh, my buddy survived that accident, though he'll walk with a limp the rest of his life with a 6 inch piece of titanium bolted to his femur.

Anyway, I would opine that although the bullets used by your friend and in that quarrel didn't perform well, that those might have been the exceptions rather than the standard.

P.S. For myself, every animal I've shot with one of my .357s has died quickly if not immediately, from rabbits to feral hogs. But again, I'd have to say that killing charging bears with a handgun is going to require a level of focus and skill that most people just don't have. That includes myself by the way. There was a time when I might've had that skill set, but nowadays I'm pretty sure that if such an event occurred I'd most likely end up with a wounded angry bear slamming into me. I just hope I hang onto the gun so I can put a couple rounds in his ear/eye and save my life. Of course, the actual chances of being attacked by a bear are really pretty low, so with any luck I'll never have to find out how good I really am.

[pete2]

Bears, .458 Win Mag. You'll make them even madder with a handgun. I guess if serious a .500 S&W but don't hold your breath.

[sandmansans]

Originally Posted by NoSecondBest

And another urban myth is created.....nothing like well substantiated information. If it's on the internet it has to be true...right?

Lol sounds about right. I was thinking the exact same thing

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Pond, James Pond]

I was the CEO of Cast Performance for a while

Just a minor tangent to say thanks for some fine 265gn .430 wide-meplat hardcasts. If nothing else they look fabulously badass!!

[mete]

You're learning James !!

[buck460XVR]

Folks living in the continental United States are more likely to be attacked and killed by a deer, than a bear, but yet we never see threads about "What gun for deer defense?". We never see threads, 6 pages long, where folks will not even think of going into the woods unarmed, for fear of a deer attack.

I too have lived in Black Bear territory all of my life. I have bow hunted for deer since I was 12 years old, most of the time by myself, walking in and out of bear woods in the dark with nuttin' but a bow. For the first dozen years it was with a recurve and wooden arrows, because there was nuttin' else. I feared waking up on a skunk in the dark more than being attacked by a bear. Now, 50 years later, I learn on the internet, that I should not step foot out of my house, without at least a .44 mag, loaded with 300 gr hardcast, strapped to my chest.

[Pond, James Pond]

That's because any bear calibre worth its salt could also handle deer!

[Sniper 51]

Thanks guys for all the responses. Yes....I realize it was another bear thread but I appreciate the fact that most of you stayed on point of black bears only and gave some honest opinions and recommendations. Based on those responses, I think I have decided to stay with what I have and get some 180 gr hard cast ammo. I'll take my time and look around some and if I find something such as a 45 Colt I would really like to have, I may consider trading in something I have and upgrading to a larger caliber.

[22-rimfire]

There are some big black bears in the carolina's......and while I think .357 mag ( 158gr is enough) it's a min in my mind on any bear up around 300 lbs...and not a great choice.

I've hunted and killed a lot of black bear in Montana (yrs ago ) but only with rifles ( .30-40 krag, .30-30 or .30-06 )../ and every one of those bears probably averaged 225 lbs....none over 275...( we hunted for meat -- not size )...but big black bears in Montana are 300.....and I understand you have some well over 400 lbs......if I wanted to take a black bear with a handgun I would not go below a .44 mag ....and in fact i'd probably go with .454 casull or .475 Linebaugh in a single action revolver...

I agree. But he is not hunting black bears. I would probably take my 480 Ruger BFR, but that is hunting, not self defense. I think the 357 loaded right is sufficient for the situation barring some extreme and unusual attack. Like I said earlier, since I own a 4" 41 mag (no 44's in my stable), and if I was just wandering around my property or near it, that is probably what I would carry if I had any hint of aggressive black bears there or just carry it because I like it. More than likely I would vary what I was carrying. Mostly what you're after is to frighten them away if you have to shoot (but that isn't at 5 feet either).

[Deaf Smith]

Just read a Field and Stream article while getting a hair cut today. Guy attacked by a black bear in his tent, biting him in the head. Son grabbed a Taurus Judge and shot him (the bear that is) in the mouth. Bear ran up a tree and the father got his rifle and finished the job.

Deaf

[GeauxTide]

Have owned a bunch of Smiths in 357, 41, and 44. Still have a 28 and 657. I own 4 Blackhawks in 41, 44spl, 44mag, and 45 Colt. I settled on the 45 Bisley 5.5". Reasons are simple. 1. Taylor KO formula on a 285gr@1050fps is 19 compared to a 44mag 300@1100fps is 20. 2. It will recoil less than both the 357 and 44mag. 3. It has blown through a 200# Blackie at 40 yards with all six shots. 4. For a load of 10gr of Unique or Power Pistol, the economy is outstanding. Yes, you'll have to reload, but you'll be most thankful that you did.

[Coppershot]

I carry a Ruger Bisley in 45LC with a 5.5 inch tube (A Hamilton Bowen Perfected Bisley # 2) stoked with pretty warm 250 gr. handloads. I've not shot a bear with it but expect it would perform well at close range. The big quick acquisition Bowen "rough country" sights are a real plus. I figure if that is not enough I need my Brockman 45/70 guide gun. Having thought about this, maybe I'll pick up some bear spray.

[44 AMP]

I'm good with a GP-100 loaded with either six 180 grain Partitions or hard cast rounds and 2 speed loaders.

am now curious, do you actually think you will need (or get to use) 2 speedloaders in the event of a black bear attack???


Another point to consider, about hard cast bullets, and autoloaders, and bears, what are you actually gaining, if anything with hard cast slugs, over jacketed non expanding bullets (such as FMJ)?

One of the big advantages to hard cast bullets in revolvers is the SWC shape of the bullet. While there may be studies, I don't know of any, but generations of shooters have seen that in the field, on game SWC handgun bullets just seem to work a little bit better than round nose, or pointed nose ones.

And while some designs of cast bullets for autopistols have a flat point, it is generally smaller and the slug has a more rounded shape, lacking the sharp shoulder found in SWCs for revolvers. This is to help promote feeding. Considering neither expands, is the difference between hard cast and jacketed semi auto rounds really something significant??

Sure, there are .357Mag fail stories. You can find "fail" stories for EVERYTHING if you look enough. I've seen .30-30 slugs bounce off a black bear's skull. Also seen more, and less, powerful rounds punch right through. IT's about ANGLE OF IMPACT (and bullet construction) more than the power of the round.

Saw a fellow get hit with a 160gr SWC .357 slug in the shin. It shattered 17cm of bone into fragments, the longest of which was about 3/8". No fail there.

Elmer Keith wrote, a few times, in a couple of different ways, about handguns and bears. Essentially what he believed was that "if you kept your nerve" you could defend yourself from any bear, successfully, with any centerfire handgun, .38 cal or larger. His advice was to shoot into the open mouth (every bear opens its mouth when it attacks), and break the neck. (this is where the keeping you nerve part comes in )

Elmer never claimed you wouldn't get "clawed or chawed a bit"..but if you kept your nerve, you would win.

Somewhere around 40 years ago, a bowhunter was attacked by a grizzly. He managed to kill the bear by STABBING (not shooting) it with a broadhead arrow. Some months later, he was in court for killing the protected bear. The judge looked at him, still in casts and bandages, then threw the case out.

I think the .357 is plenty for black bear. IF YOU CAN USE IT WELL. Same goes for the .44 and other larger rounds. Choosing the right bullet matters. Aim matters. Firepower (ammo capacity) doesn't matter as much. You aren't going to get in a gunfight with a bear.

Not many people can manage a fast follow up shot with a .44 Mag, and even fewer can do it with the larger caliber hand cannons. For practical purposes, consider them a single shot, with a repeat capability, if you have the time.

Pick a solid, or soft point bullet, don't pick a JHP designed to stop people. They can work, but your odds are better with the right bullet design for game, not humans.

Another thing to consider is that MR Bear isn't as big inside his shaggy bear suit as he seems. The vitals are not quite where most people assume they are. In order to effectively stop a bear, you have to KNOW the bear (anatomy), and then, put the bullet in the right place.

[robinsroost]

If I was only concerned about defense against predators, both two and four legged, I might consider a .45 Colt double action, like a Ruger Red Hawk with a 5 1/2" barrel, loaded with 250 grain FMJ or hard cast bullets........robin