Bargain guns?

JimL · November 14, 2009, 10:58 AM

I see shotguns for thousands of dollars. When I ask at a gun shop about house guns I can find various models around $300.

Generally speaking, are these guns "too cheap?" Will they fail or blow up in your face?

jaguarxk120 · November 14, 2009, 11:11 AM

Generally they are guns that have the "house label" on them. I just seen a Sears pump Ted Williams model at a store for $199. It is a Winchester 1200 pump that was made for Sears under contract. Nothing wrong with it just marked Sears not Winchester. There are many guns out there like that some are very good some are very bad. You really have to be knowledgeable when looking at this type of firearm.

John76248 · November 14, 2009, 01:51 PM

Ya get what you pay for..........in most cases. Best thing to do is educate yourself. Dig on the internet, and ask around which is just what you are doing by coming to this website. I spent 600 bucks for a Remington 870 police shotgun. It will outlast me if taken care of which is what I am doing. Good luck!

xm21 · November 14, 2009, 01:58 PM

You can get a Rem 870 Exp,a Moss 500,or a Mav 88 for under 300 dollars.

You won't wear one of these out and odds are they won't blow up.

sectshun8 · November 14, 2009, 02:17 PM

Yeah man, my Mav 88 I got for less than $200... just a different name on the same gun, can't go wrong.

Similar in rifles, I got my Stevens 200 .308 which is a Savage under a different name... its the way to save.

the rifleer · November 14, 2009, 02:24 PM

I'd rather have my mossberg 500 than a fancy $3000 o/u. I'd be scared to put a ding in it or scratch it.

A good pump like the 500 or 870 is incredibly reliable and very durable, when you pay for a nice O/U you are mostly paying for engravings and pretty wood.

Tommy Vercetti · November 14, 2009, 02:46 PM

I bought my Winchester 1300 years ago for $300, it has engraving and pretty wood (I like laminates though)

Dave McC · November 14, 2009, 05:17 PM

I've never seen a Mossberg or Remington pump gun worn out to the point of being unsafe or unreliable.

I have seen Model 12s and 97s thus,though it takes a couple hundred thousand rounds to get to that point.

Shotguns are simple devices as firearms go. On pumps, the things that gang aglay are shell latches and carriers, small springs and firing pins.

In half a century of pumpmanship, I've broken two firing pin springs, had one shell latch come adrift(Still functioned fine and a good smith fixed it gratis) and seen one firing pin that broke being dry fired in cold weather.

A US made pump, from the Maverick(Yeah, Mexican labor on US machines) to the older Winchesters and Remingtons lasts much longer than we do.

My wingshooting 870, Number Six, is older than my spouse. The paltry few thousand rounds put through it so far have merely slicked it up a mite.

My grandkids, if any, may think it archaic but it will work, even if we run a case a shells though it each and every week, and take it to Argentina yearly.

Same with the others. US made pumps love high round counts.

Dragon55 · November 14, 2009, 05:27 PM

I have a 16 ga Winchester 1200 pump. The bed of my truck would not hold all the shells that have been through it. I think I paid $99 plus tax in 1972 for this 'cheap' shotgun.

jmr40 · November 14, 2009, 06:50 PM

There are bargains. I found a mint 870 express Friday that I can get for $165 out the door. I don't need another gun, but may have to bring that one home Monday if it is still there.

celtgun · November 14, 2009, 06:55 PM

Numrich Arms/Gun Parts Corp. catalog has a "crossover" list to research who the manufacturer was of the various house brand guns. Sears, Western Auto/Revalation, Montgomery Ward and others. Handy for repair parts and to put a value on guns. If the gun/pawn shop has a gun sale sign up, stop and look. I have a Mossberg 835 and an Ithaca 37 that I gave only $150 each for, if they aren't good shotguns I don't know what is.

"The love of violence is inherent in the human (male) spirit. The attempt to train it out of boys is both futile and immoral." Chairman Jeff Cooper

oneounceload · November 14, 2009, 06:58 PM

"Bargains" is a relative term. Even a $3,000 gun can be a bargain, depending on what it is, current market value, and what it is being compared against.

Kmar40 · November 14, 2009, 09:58 PM

For 99.99% of shotgun users (HD, hunting, whatever) there isn't much that a $250 Mossberg or $300 870 won't do.

By "house gun" do you mean a gun for home defense?

jaguarxk120 · November 15, 2009, 12:26 PM

House gun, a well known mfgr. making guns for a private retailer. Such as just about every mfgr. making guns for Sears, M. Wards and others.

Some people out there are willing to pay a little extra for the wood, fit, finish and engraving of a more expensive gun. Your Mossberg will do everything my Ithaca does and maybe more, but I like the wood and handling of my M37 pump.

knight0334 · November 15, 2009, 01:07 PM

Price doesn't always mean better performance or reliability.

All my NEF/H&R Pardner type single shots that cost between $69 and $129 NIB, the beat Mossy 500 farm gun at $60, and the NIB $219 Mossy 500 I've bought over the years all still work like new.

Judging a gun by it's price tag is much like judging a book by its cover.

jaguarxk120 · November 15, 2009, 01:34 PM

If you check on the auction house's, the prices starting and sold you will find that the higher quality guns retain their prices while the cheaper built guns will go for a song. There are people out in the world today willing to pay for higher grade guns, built with materials different than what you will find in the Mossberg. Check your fire control group, it's made of plastic, my Ithaca is all machined steel. No stampings, no plastic.

Years ago Winchester built the 1200,1300,1400 series of shotguns, they were made as cheap as possible with out making them unsafe. The co. management was banking on the co's. reputation to sell them, after the guns hit the market, everything went down hill from there.

What you have are fine serviceable guns that do the job very well, but not to everyone's tastes.

oneounceload · November 15, 2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Judging a gun by it's price tag is much like judging a book by its cover.

And thinking that a NEF, Mossberg or similar has anywhere near the quality craftsmanship, handling or balance that a nice O/U or SxS has is laughable

jaguarxk120 · November 15, 2009, 04:18 PM

In some area's of the world if you showed up with a pump (high grade one) to hunt, the owners of the club would ask you to leave till you got a proper gun to hunt with.

And it one time O/U's were looked down on too.

Also remember quality doesn't mean flash, fancy engraving, or shiney finish.

knight0334 · November 15, 2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

And thinking that a NEF, Mossberg or similar has anywhere near the quality craftsmanship, handling or balance that a nice O/U or SxS has is laughable

Craftmanship only matters when one fails or for resale value. If neither a high dollar or low dollar fails, or the gun isn't bought as an investment - then craftmanship is moot.

As for handling and balance, that's a factor of individual perception and not a factor of the gun. If someone has no problem hitting clays, birds and small game with his $100 K-Mart Blue Light Special - is it a lessor handling or balanced gun than a fine $20K Holland & Holland? Apparently not.

What it usually comes down to is gun-snobbery.

Kmar40 · November 15, 2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

House gun, a well known mfgr. making guns for a private retailer.

Yeah, I understand the reference, I just wasn't sure if the OP was using the term in that way.

oneounceload · November 15, 2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

What it usually comes down to is gun-snobbery.

Or reverse snobbery from folks who brag about how cheap they went. Whatever.....

A well-built gun that handles properly, and doesn't break doesn't have to cost the same as a 20,000 or even a 200,000 Holland and Holland, but doubles, especially SxS's cost to make well - but they still can be had in used condition for what a new cheap gun can cost

Aldo Gucci: "The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory."

DG45 · November 15, 2009, 06:26 PM

You can buy excellent quality for less than $300 if you buy used. Lots of old shotguns have spent considerably more time in gun cabinets than they have in the field. I recently bought a Remington Model 11 made in 1938 for $200. It was used but clearly never abused. This is a John Browing designed semi-automatic five-shot gun, manufactured by Remington using quality materials back in the day when guns were largely hand fitted during manufacturing.

This particular gun is roll-marked with a duck hunting scene on one side of the receiver and a pheasant hunting scene on the other. The stock and forearm are the original, beautiful, uncracked, checkered walnut.

Remington stopped making these guns in 1948 for one reason only - it had become too costly to manufacture them for what their middle-America market was able to pay in price. You can see the quality of this gun when you put it beside any moderately priced modern gun. It makes just about any of them look cheap.

At the present time, you can still find Model 11's like mine, or Remington Sportsman models, or Ithaca Model 37 pump guns for $300 or less. I doubt if this will always be the case though.

I have to admit that these older guns are generally not the most versatile guns on the market - unless you find one fitted with a poly choke, or fit one that way (but a polychoke on a classy old gun is an abomination to me). My 26" I/C barrel is ideal for upland game birds; not so great for geese and such but hey! It'll just have to do.

oneounceload · November 15, 2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

My 26" I/C barrel is ideal for upland game birds; not so great for geese and such but hey! It'll just have to do

Now, you'll have to find another one for that!...."Honest honey, it's the LAST gun I'm gonna need, I swear!".....

Greg_M · November 15, 2009, 06:48 PM

I paid $178 at WallyWorld for my Moss 500. I have it loaded with 000 for home/zombie defense.
If i want to see "pretty" I pull out my Weatherby O/U.

Different tools for different jobs.
Nothing says "Get off my lawn" like the sound of a 12ga pump

Dan K. Evans · November 16, 2009, 11:11 AM

I just bought a side-by-side 12 ga., 20 inch barrel. I've wanted a home-protection double barrel for a long time but could not afford a Fox. It is Chinese made, in the box with documents, fired 4 times. The wood is beautiful, checkered, and all milled parts (apparently). $200. Was it a bargain?

November 14, 2009, 10:58 AM	#1
JimL Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2009 Posts: 276	Bargain guns? I see shotguns for thousands of dollars. When I ask at a gun shop about house guns I can find various models around $300. Generally speaking, are these guns "too cheap?" Will they fail or blow up in your face? __________________ Thanks Sue Walmart and Kmart for selling millions of inferior brains. JimL

November 14, 2009, 01:51 PM	#3
John76248 Member Join Date: February 11, 2009 Location: Embarrassed to be from Texas Posts: 62	Ya get what you pay for..........in most cases. Best thing to do is educate yourself. Dig on the internet, and ask around which is just what you are doing by coming to this website. I spent 600 bucks for a Remington 870 police shotgun. It will outlast me if taken care of which is what I am doing. Good luck! __________________ If my post offends you there must be some truth in my post!

November 14, 2009, 02:17 PM	#5
sectshun8 Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2007 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 237	Yeah man, my Mav 88 I got for less than $200... just a different name on the same gun, can't go wrong. Similar in rifles, I got my Stevens 200 .308 which is a Savage under a different name... its the way to save. __________________ Marlin 882SS .22 Mag \| Stevens 200 .308 \| Mosin Nagant M44 7.62x54R \| Maverick 88 12g \| Mossberg 702 .22LR \| FNP-9 9mm \| RRA AR-15 .223 \| Kel-Tec PLR-22 \| Taurus PT-1911 AR .45 US Army Reserve

November 14, 2009, 02:46 PM	#7
Tommy Vercetti Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2004 Location: Fairhope, Alabama Posts: 1,119	I bought my Winchester 1300 years ago for $300, it has engraving and pretty wood (I like laminates though) __________________ "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." Sinclair Lewis, (It Can't Happen Here, 1935) "Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

November 14, 2009, 05:27 PM	#9
Dragon55 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Location: East Tennessee Posts: 811	Expensive does not equal longevity I have a 16 ga Winchester 1200 pump. The bed of my truck would not hold all the shells that have been through it. I think I paid $99 plus tax in 1972 for this 'cheap' shotgun. __________________ sailing ... A way to spend lots of money and go real S L O W

November 14, 2009, 11:11 AM	#2
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	Generally they are guns that have the "house label" on them. I just seen a Sears pump Ted Williams model at a store for $199. It is a Winchester 1200 pump that was made for Sears under contract. Nothing wrong with it just marked Sears not Winchester. There are many guns out there like that some are very good some are very bad. You really have to be knowledgeable when looking at this type of firearm.

November 14, 2009, 01:58 PM	#4
xm21 Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2008 Posts: 177	You can get a Rem 870 Exp,a Moss 500,or a Mav 88 for under 300 dollars. You won't wear one of these out and odds are they won't blow up.

November 14, 2009, 02:24 PM	#6
the rifleer Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2008 Location: Sunny California Posts: 1,281	I'd rather have my mossberg 500 than a fancy $3000 o/u. I'd be scared to put a ding in it or scratch it. A good pump like the 500 or 870 is incredibly reliable and very durable, when you pay for a nice O/U you are mostly paying for engravings and pretty wood.

November 14, 2009, 05:17 PM	#8
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	I've never seen a Mossberg or Remington pump gun worn out to the point of being unsafe or unreliable. I have seen Model 12s and 97s thus,though it takes a couple hundred thousand rounds to get to that point. Shotguns are simple devices as firearms go. On pumps, the things that gang aglay are shell latches and carriers, small springs and firing pins. In half a century of pumpmanship, I've broken two firing pin springs, had one shell latch come adrift(Still functioned fine and a good smith fixed it gratis) and seen one firing pin that broke being dry fired in cold weather. A US made pump, from the Maverick(Yeah, Mexican labor on US machines) to the older Winchesters and Remingtons lasts much longer than we do. My wingshooting 870, Number Six, is older than my spouse. The paltry few thousand rounds put through it so far have merely slicked it up a mite. My grandkids, if any, may think it archaic but it will work, even if we run a case a shells though it each and every week, and take it to Argentina yearly. Same with the others. US made pumps love high round counts.

November 14, 2009, 06:50 PM	#10
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	There are bargains. I found a mint 870 express Friday that I can get for $165 out the door. I don't need another gun, but may have to bring that one home Monday if it is still there.

November 14, 2009, 06:55 PM	#11
celtgun Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2008 Location: SE North Carolina Posts: 203	House gun info Numrich Arms/Gun Parts Corp. catalog has a "crossover" list to research who the manufacturer was of the various house brand guns. Sears, Western Auto/Revalation, Montgomery Ward and others. Handy for repair parts and to put a value on guns. If the gun/pawn shop has a gun sale sign up, stop and look. I have a Mossberg 835 and an Ithaca 37 that I gave only $150 each for, if they aren't good shotguns I don't know what is. "The love of violence is inherent in the human (male) spirit. The attempt to train it out of boys is both futile and immoral." Chairman Jeff Cooper

November 14, 2009, 06:58 PM	#12
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	"Bargains" is a relative term. Even a $3,000 gun can be a bargain, depending on what it is, current market value, and what it is being compared against.

November 14, 2009, 09:58 PM	#13
Kmar40 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 668	For 99.99% of shotgun users (HD, hunting, whatever) there isn't much that a $250 Mossberg or $300 870 won't do. By "house gun" do you mean a gun for home defense?

November 15, 2009, 12:26 PM	#14
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	House gun, a well known mfgr. making guns for a private retailer. Such as just about every mfgr. making guns for Sears, M. Wards and others. Some people out there are willing to pay a little extra for the wood, fit, finish and engraving of a more expensive gun. Your Mossberg will do everything my Ithaca does and maybe more, but I like the wood and handling of my M37 pump. Last edited by jaguarxk120; November 15, 2009 at 12:31 PM.

November 15, 2009, 01:07 PM	#15
knight0334 Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2006 Location: Brookville, PA Posts: 442	Price doesn't always mean better performance or reliability. All my NEF/H&R Pardner type single shots that cost between $69 and $129 NIB, the beat Mossy 500 farm gun at $60, and the NIB $219 Mossy 500 I've bought over the years all still work like new. Judging a gun by it's price tag is much like judging a book by its cover.

November 15, 2009, 01:34 PM	#16
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	If you check on the auction house's, the prices starting and sold you will find that the higher quality guns retain their prices while the cheaper built guns will go for a song. There are people out in the world today willing to pay for higher grade guns, built with materials different than what you will find in the Mossberg. Check your fire control group, it's made of plastic, my Ithaca is all machined steel. No stampings, no plastic. Years ago Winchester built the 1200,1300,1400 series of shotguns, they were made as cheap as possible with out making them unsafe. The co. management was banking on the co's. reputation to sell them, after the guns hit the market, everything went down hill from there. What you have are fine serviceable guns that do the job very well, but not to everyone's tastes.

November 15, 2009, 04:18 PM	#18
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	In some area's of the world if you showed up with a pump (high grade one) to hunt, the owners of the club would ask you to leave till you got a proper gun to hunt with. And it one time O/U's were looked down on too. Also remember quality doesn't mean flash, fancy engraving, or shiney finish.

November 15, 2009, 06:26 PM	#22
DG45 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Posts: 904	You can buy excellent quality for less than $300 if you buy used. Lots of old shotguns have spent considerably more time in gun cabinets than they have in the field. I recently bought a Remington Model 11 made in 1938 for $200. It was used but clearly never abused. This is a John Browing designed semi-automatic five-shot gun, manufactured by Remington using quality materials back in the day when guns were largely hand fitted during manufacturing. This particular gun is roll-marked with a duck hunting scene on one side of the receiver and a pheasant hunting scene on the other. The stock and forearm are the original, beautiful, uncracked, checkered walnut. Remington stopped making these guns in 1948 for one reason only - it had become too costly to manufacture them for what their middle-America market was able to pay in price. You can see the quality of this gun when you put it beside any moderately priced modern gun. It makes just about any of them look cheap. At the present time, you can still find Model 11's like mine, or Remington Sportsman models, or Ithaca Model 37 pump guns for $300 or less. I doubt if this will always be the case though. I have to admit that these older guns are generally not the most versatile guns on the market - unless you find one fitted with a poly choke, or fit one that way (but a polychoke on a classy old gun is an abomination to me). My 26" I/C barrel is ideal for upland game birds; not so great for geese and such but hey! It'll just have to do.

November 15, 2009, 06:48 PM	#24
Greg_M Member Join Date: September 8, 2009 Posts: 20	I paid $178 at WallyWorld for my Moss 500. I have it loaded with 000 for home/zombie defense. If i want to see "pretty" I pull out my Weatherby O/U. Different tools for different jobs. Nothing says "Get off my lawn" like the sound of a 12ga pump

November 16, 2009, 11:11 AM	#25
Dan K. Evans Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 35	Bargain Shotguns I just bought a side-by-side 12 ga., 20 inch barrel. I've wanted a home-protection double barrel for a long time but could not afford a Fox. It is Chinese made, in the box with documents, fired 4 times. The wood is beautiful, checkered, and all milled parts (apparently). $200. Was it a bargain?